Electric Pickup Trucks? - NF

[grimsbylander]

Yup...from right in Ontario. None of the "important" specs are given on this truck yet but here they come. I think the blew the budget on technical and none on aesthetics.

 

 

https://www.investinontario.com/success-stories/worlds-first-all-electric-pickup-truck-made-ontario?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=weekly

 

 

http://www.havelaarcanada.com/bison/

Edited September 28, 2017 by grimsbylander

[Fisherman]

I don't think it will pull my trailer up the hill.

[vance]

I like the look but it better have an 8 ft box if they even want me to consider it.

 

vance

[aplumma]

I think this will have a worse showing as the new E VW mini bus. The idea that E vehicles are emission free bugs me since they really aren't.They are using electricity that has it's own emissions issues just out of sight out of mine i guess.

 

 

Art

[Fisherman]

I think this will have a worse showing as the new E VW mini bus. The idea that E vehicles are emission free bugs me since they really aren't.They are using electricity that has it's own emissions issues just out of sight out of mine i guess.

 

 

Art

Exactly, you just can't plug it into your local tree. They keep telling us to conserve electricity but come out with this.

[leaf4]

Exactly, you just can't plug it into your local tree. They keep telling us to conserve electricity but come out with this.

And when we do conserve electricity, they just jack the rates up to make up for the shortfalls ?

 

No win situation, they keep telling us the investments in green technology will pay off....

[lookinforwalleye]

Utilities and Governments will be the first users.....no kidding they will be the only ones able to afford it...our taxpayer dollars you know!!!

[Old Ironmaker]

I always wonder when I hear of these new electric vehicles what is the cost of KWH/100K? I caught a bit of TV where they were showing the electric Formula 1 cars that hit 300KM/HR.

[dave524]

I always wonder when I hear of these new electric vehicles what is the cost of KWH/100K? I caught a bit of TV where they were showing the electric Formula 1 cars that hit 300KM/HR.

 

I understand when the Indy 500 goes electric they will have to change the name to the Indy 50.0

[John]

I think this will have a worse showing as the new E VW mini bus. The idea that E vehicles are emission free bugs me since they really aren't.They are using electricity that has it's own emissions issues just out of sight out of mine i guess.

 

 

Art

 

The other "green" issue that I have Art is that E vehicles use more energy and fossil fuels to produce than a regular internal combustion propelled vehicle. I addition I don't think we have even scratched the surface of the problems with battery disposal and recycling moving forward. I have said for some time that passenger vehicles are much much less of an emission issue than the millions of commercial vehicles, trains, aircraft, container ships and cruise ships that don't have any emissions standards or controls....

[SirCranksalot]

.They are using electricity that has it's own emissions issues just out of sight out of mine i guess.

 

 

Art

 

 

True, but generating stations tend to be more efficient than internal combustion engines. Not sure how many burn oil to generate electricity though.

[scuro2]

I think this will have a worse showing as the new E VW mini bus. The idea that E vehicles are emission free bugs me since they really aren't.They are using electricity that has it's own emissions issues just out of sight out of mine i guess.

 

 

Art

 

Scientists in the field state the issue is the probable catastrophic and lasting damage to our civilization caused by global warming. The solution is less CO2 in the atmosphere which means a reduction in world wide CO2 production. If the electricity for your electric car is produced by nuclear energy, solar, or wind...there will be a major overall reduction in CO2 pollution that your car will produce compared to a combustion engine. I'd hazard a guess that even electricity produced by natural gas generators for a electric car creates less CO2 then a combustion engine.

Edited September 30, 2017 by scuro2

[aplumma]

The level of CO2 in modern vehicles has greatly improved.

 

 

Quote Emissions of these air quality pollutants from road vehicles have been reduced by improving the quality of fuels and by setting increasingly stringent emission limits for new vehicles. As an example, it would take 50 new cars to produce the same quantity of air quality pollutant emissions per kilometre as a vehicle made in 1970. Over the last twenty years increasingly stringent emission limits have been set at a European level, starting with the "Euro1" limits in 1993. From September 2015 all new cars currently have to meet the Euro 6 standard. Since 1^st January 2011 all models sold have had to meet the Euro 5 standard. End Quote.

 

Taking this with a grain of salt and even halving the number of 50 claimed it would make more sense to give tax credits or a buy off all of the pre 2011 cars to reach these numbers before going to an alternative fuel vehicle. We already know no one wants a nuclear plant near them or a wind farm for that matter. Solar not yet it is still to cost prohibitive just look at how few solar houses you see in places that have access to the power grid. The area i live in had 1 year emission testing to keep your vehicle on the road they have been monitoring roadway CO2 levels and are finding so few vehicles failing the tests that they have moved to eliminate the emissions requirements. We then have to look at the fact that almost all of the contractors I know need a vehicle that can go over 200 miles a day and haul parts and tools that would tax even the most robust E vehicle. We could then explore the commercial vehicles used to haul products cross country. Think Boat, Railroad, tractor trailer or aircraft no amount of electricity can do there job. The final hurdle is what if you want to go on vacation from your house even as close as cottage country you would have to still have a car that uses some kind of fuel that is portable semi safe and cheap enough to make it possible for you to own and support the extra vehicle. A tax break and or an old vehicle buy back is a realistic way to lower emissions standards while E cars for the working, mass movement population technology is not there yet. It does have a place for the people who work 50 miles or less and commute but to set up the grid for any further is cost prohibitive but that is not who they are targeting with a pick up.

 

 

Quote

 

How much of U.S. carbon dioxide emissions are associated with electricity generation?

In 2016, emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2) by the U.S. electric power sector¹ were 1,821 million metric tons, or about 35% of the total U.S. energy-related CO2 emissions of 5,171 million metric tons.²

CO2 emissions from U.S. electric power sector by source, 2016

Source Million metric tons Share of total Coal 1,241 68% Natural gas 546 30% Petroleum 21 1% Other³ 12 <1% Total 1,821

 

 

 

• Electricity production (29 percent of 2015 greenhouse gas emissions) – Electricity production generates the largest share of greenhouse gas emissions. Approximately 67 percent of our electricity comes from burning fossil fuels, mostly coal and natural gas.2
• Transportation (27 percent of 2015 greenhouse gas emissions) – Greenhouse gas emissions from transportation primarily come from burning fossil fuel for our cars, trucks, ships, trains, and planes. Over 90 percent of the fuel used for transportation is petroleum based, which includes gasoline and diesel.3
• Industry (21 percent of 2015 greenhouse gas emissions) – Greenhouse gas emissions from industry primarily come from burning fossil fuels for energy, as well as greenhouse gas emissions from certain chemical reactions necessary to produce goods from raw materials.
• Commercial and Residential (12 percent of 2015 greenhouse gas emissions) – Greenhouse gas emissions from businesses and homes arise primarily from fossil fuels burned for heat, the use of certain products that contain greenhouse gases, and the handling of waste.
• Agriculture (9 percent of 2015 greenhouse gas emissions) – Greenhouse gas emissions from agriculture come from livestock such as cows, agricultural soils, and rice production.
• Land Use and Forestry (offset of 11.8 percent of 2015 greenhouse gas emissions) – Land areas can act as a sink (absorbing CO2 from the atmosphere) or a source of greenhouse gas emissions. In the United States, since 1990, managed forests and other lands have absorbed more CO2 from the atmosphere than they emit.

End Quote.

 

 

Art

[dave524]

 

• Land Use and Forestry (offset of 11.8 percent of 2015 greenhouse gas emissions) – Land areas can act as a sink (absorbing CO2 from the atmosphere) or a source of greenhouse gas emissions. In the United States, since 1990, managed forests and other lands have absorbed more CO2 from the atmosphere than they emit.

End Quote.

 

 

Art

 

Exactly, Canada, with our relatively low population and vast forested areas we are by some calculations already carbon neutral or maybe carbon negative,

[aplumma]

 

Exactly, Canada, with our relatively low population and vast forested areas we are by some calculations already carbon neutral or maybe carbon negative,

I totally agree with that. With your raw material export as your bases of trade and low population you are carbon negative. This however does put the burden on the countries that ship finished products to Canada to enjoy. Thankfully the law of averaging makes it possible to balance out some of the more industrial countries with the less industrial countries.

 

Art

[scuro2]

The level of CO2 in modern vehicles has greatly improved....

 

How much of U.S. carbon dioxide emissions are associated with electricity generation?

In 2016, emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2) by the U.S. electric power sector¹ were 1,821 million metric tons, or about 35% of the total U.S. energy-related CO2 emissions of 5,171 million metric tons.²

CO2 emissions from U.S. electric power sector by source, 2016

 

Source Million metric tons Share of total Coal 1,241 68% Natural gas 546 30% Petroleum 21 1% Other³ 12 <1% Total 1,821

 

• Electricity production (29 percent of 2015 greenhouse gas emissions) – Electricity production generates the largest share of greenhouse gas emissions. Approximately 67 percent of our electricity comes from burning fossil fuels, mostly coal and natural gas.2
• Transportation (27 percent of 2015 greenhouse gas emissions) – Greenhouse gas emissions from transportation primarily come from burning fossil fuel for our cars, trucks, ships, trains, and planes. Over 90 percent of the fuel used for transportation is petroleum based, which includes gasoline and diesel.

 

If we believe a reduction in CO2 is necessary to save the world as we know it then any reduction is good.

 

Per capita we are right up there with the leading emitters of CO2 but if you look by country China easily eclipses our emissions. When the overall goal is to get every country to significantly reduce CO2 emissions I don't think we can go with the argument that we have lots of trees so we have done our part.

 

Your quoted facts are for the US, which energy production wise pollutes a lot more than Canada. Worse, Trump is pushing for the creation of more coal plants.

 

Ontario no longer has coal fired generating plants so our emissions are down significantly... which is a good thing and is a fine example for the rest of the world. If we understand that the possibility of rising global temperatures is a threat to the world as we know it, then China and the rest of the world will have to lower and eventually almost eliminate the dependency on a carbon based economy

 





(this graph is for Ontario)

 

 

It is a valid argument that there are better targets then cars/trucks to reduce emissions ...like coal fired electrical generating plants. Canada has about 15 of them with most of them in the west. Compare that with 500 in the US and about 2000 in China.

 

To end on a positive note, the world focus on CO2 emissions has drastically cut into the production of new coal plants in India and China.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/mar/22/coal-power-plants-green-energy-china-india

Edited October 1, 2017 by scuro2

[Old Ironmaker]

I can't quantify it right this minute. We were told by a well renowned environmentalist by the name Suzuki that a cross country flight in a passenger jet airliner emits as much C02 as a modern integrated steel plant does in a month. Multiply that with the massive numbers of passenger jets in the air every minute of everyday. That was at an AISI conference I attended many years ago. We are all good stewards of our environment as long as it is convenient and economical.

[manitoubass2]

Sure it wasn't bill nye?

[scuro2]

I can't quantify it right this minute. We were told by a well renowned environmentalist by the name Suzuki that a cross country flight in a passenger jet airliner emits as much C02 as a modern integrated steel plant does in a month. Multiply that with the massive numbers of passenger jets in the air every minute of everyday. That was at an AISI conference I attended many years ago. We are all good stewards of our environment as long as it is convenient and economical.

 

I'm not sure of the validity of your comment because steel plants burn coal to get the heat needed to melt the iron. The comparison seems far fetched.

 

Looking at the graphs below aircraft make up about 3% of CO2 emissions (the second pie chart is an expansion of the transportation from the first pie chart) . Like electrical cars, things are being proposed to decrease aircraft emissions....but the easy target is coal fired electrical generation plants. See graph below.

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2017 by scuro2

[Fish Farmer]

Wonder how far it will go in the winter with the heater going.

Where you going to plug in out in the middle of the lake ice fishing so you can make it home.

[zenon11]

Wonder how far it will go in the winter with the heater going.

Where you going to plug in out in the middle of the lake ice fishing so you can make it home.

Probably the same place you fill up your tank when it runs out of gas in the lake.

[Fisherman]

Probably the same place you fill up your tank when it runs out of gas in the lake.

 

When they can make one that goes 1200 to 1400 km per tank, it might raise my eyebrows.

[aplumma]

If you have a bucket of marbles and 40 % of them are blue 20%green and 30 % red and the final !0 % are yellow. The quickest path to separating them is to remove the blue then red, green, and be left with the yellow. However when you are trying to just reduce the amount of marbles you will pick out the easiest ones to recognise which statistically are the red ones. We often apply this "logic" to life where we look for the solution that is the easiest path so we aim for the red marbles or the public masses who are least able to effectively mount a legal challenge. The logical solution is to go after the worst offenders and work your way back to the lesser offenders. This gives you the greatest bang for your efforts expended.

 

 

Art

[SirCranksalot]

Insert bad joke about losing marbles here ------------------------------------:

[Fisherman]

Then maybe they should go after all the hotrod cars and motorcycles that spew pollution like crazy. Ever have to drive behind 8-10 bikes on the highway while on their excursions. Eye watering, throat scratching gag.