woodenboater Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) ... Russia just called his bluff in syria... there is no way this is going to end well for Russia. They couldn't do jack in Afghanistan and won't be able to do jack in Syria as well. Imo, they're inviting more dissent/retribution from the Muslims in Russia (Chechens etc). but perhaps this is what Putin wants to sow so he can crack down = he's tough leader/ take more action against them. Edited October 3, 2015 by woodenboater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirCranksalot Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 Personally if the only way I could feel safe was with a gun at my side, I'd move. I can't imagine living life like that to be honest. Quite!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimsbylander Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 This shooting is an absolute tragedy and my prayers go out to the victims and their families. This is not the first or the last. If anyone, American or Canadian, can defend the position of solving gun related homocide through the ownership and freedom of having more guns, there is little hope of a fix. If Sandy Hook didn't make people stop and say "Let's try a different way", nothing will. If highway fatalities climb, authorities implement controls. Speed limits, seat belts, graduated licensing, alcohol restrictions, etc. Everyone accepts these as common sense solutions to keep people safe. Mention gun control and listen to the stream of ridicules excuses by normally intelligent people. Canada is far from perfect but I love this country and I love the fact I never have to worry about some guy having a bad day and walking around with a concealed handgun. Even people on this site have expressed they would like the law changed to carry a gun. I hope you NEVER EVER get that right. You do have the right to move to Oregon however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerritt Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/topstories/america-gun-control-1.3254065 200+ mass shootings this year already and counting..... Unreal. G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch312 Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 This shooting is an absolute tragedy and my prayers go out to the victims and their families. This is not the first or the last. If anyone, American or Canadian, can defend the position of solving gun related homocide through the ownership and freedom of having more guns, there is little hope of a fix. If Sandy Hook didn't make people stop and say "Let's try a different way", nothing will. If highway fatalities climb, authorities implement controls. Speed limits, seat belts, graduated licensing, alcohol restrictions, etc. Everyone accepts these as common sense solutions to keep people safe. Mention gun control and listen to the stream of ridicules excuses by normally intelligent people. Canada is far from perfect but I love this country and I love the fact I never have to worry about some guy having a bad day and walking around with a concealed handgun. Even people on this site have expressed they would like the law changed to carry a gun. I hope you NEVER EVER get that right. You do have the right to move to Oregon however. So, what you're saying is when the government enacts stricter rules and punishes the masses for the mishaps caused by a few bad apples it will magically stop the problem? I'm not sure if you're aware of this or not, but stricter rules and harsher penalties on the highway have not stopped drunk driving, speeding, or distracted driving. Care to explain how stricter gun control will somehow stop people with bad intentions from getting their hands on firearms? You can't, because it wont and never will. Why? The majority of firearms used in crime are either imported from other countries and/or stolen from law abiding enthusiasts. How will stricter rules for law abiding citizens stop someone from breaking into their home and stealing their firearms? It wont. How will banning certain firearms stop people from committing murder? It wont. How will stricter licensing requirements prevent senseless deaths when criminals get guns off the streets? It wont. Maybe we should try some sort of registry to better track firearms to save lives? That doesn't work either. I'm not arguing or making up excuses, just trying to give you a different perspective from a well informed and law abiding citizen who enjoys owning and using firearms. What sort of gun control do you believe would stop these killings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch312 Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Unless you've got professional training, I doubt anyone is going to jump up like Rambo and start defending themselves (Like they think they would).. You'll never know until you're faced with that situation, but to think anyone that's only poked holes in pop cans has any sort of tactical ability is silly. Look at police officers, how many hours of hands on training do they get in real life scenarios and THEY still freeze/screwup/whatever when faced with the real thing. Personally if the only way I could feel safe was with a gun at my side, I'd move. I can't imagine living life like that to be honest. From what I have heard from various sources they receive very little training with their firearms here in Canada and the majority of officers only complete the minimum range time required. Most officers couldn't hit a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood at 30 paces... I think you've watched too many movies if you think any tactical ability is required to stop a shooter in a situation like this. Take cover, unholster firearm, shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimsbylander Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 So, what you're saying is when the government enacts stricter rules and punishes the masses for the mishaps caused by a few bad apples it will magically stop the problem? I'm not sure if you're aware of this or not, but stricter rules and harsher penalties on the highway have not stopped drunk driving, speeding, or distracted driving. Care to explain how stricter gun control will somehow stop people with bad intentions from getting their hands on firearms? You can't, because it wont and never will. Why? The majority of firearms used in crime are either imported from other countries and/or stolen from law abiding enthusiasts. How will stricter rules for law abiding citizens stop someone from breaking into their home and stealing their firearms? It wont. How will banning certain firearms stop people from committing murder? It wont. How will stricter licensing requirements prevent senseless deaths when criminals get guns off the streets? It wont. What sort of gun control do you believe would stop these killings? Most officers couldn't hit a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood at 30 paces... I like your ask a question and answer it yourself writing style. You should start your own thread and talk to yourself. Maybe you'll believe your own "facts". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Cliff Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) I wonder how many lives would have been saved if Chris Mintz had been armed instead of only having his body to try to stop the shooter? You can take away all the guns you want but if these nut cases have their mind set on killing people they will do it with or without a gun. Anyone with minimal knowledge or access to the internet can build a bomb in no time at all from simple easy to get house hold ingredients. It is almost a daily news item just here in Toronto where someone has been stabbed, what's next, do we ban knives? These things aren't being done by the baby boomers, it's being done by the "me now" generation. These kids have been brought up in a world where they don't have to work for anything, it just gets handed to them. When the handouts stop coming they just start taking because that's all they know. They have no idea what "accountability or socially acceptable" mean, everytime they have done anything wrong they get coddled. In my day if you acted up in school you got the strap, if your mother sent you to your room and you gave her any lip you came too in your room with a headache. Today if a teacher looks at a student the wrong way they get jumped on, if a parrent even threatens to smack their kids butt they can be charged. You want this stuff to stop? It's easy just get back to the old values where you worked for what you got and you got what you deserved. When is the last time you heard of any of these things happening in Mennoite or Amish communities? Edited October 4, 2015 by Big Cliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Cliff, your heart is often in the right place, but sometimes your mind is in the wrong place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenboater Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 What is required is a major cultural shift vis a vis guns and from where I sit, I don't see this happening in my lifetime. nor my niece's and nephew's either. It's something that's passed on from generation to generation and that link will be near impossible to break unfortunately. A western society is on the precipice of a slide into the unknown and must act before momentum prevents such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aplumma Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Actually Cliff is right on this as he often is in my opinion. The sickness is not the guns but the people who use them incorrectly. Is a man who stabs another any less mentally disturbed than a man who shot someone? We as a society feed on these horror stories. So far i haven't hear word one on this forum of the 33 people on a ship that died in the hurricane or the massive flooding going on in the south. Face it folks we are ghoulish in the news we choose to react to. Even Obama has ignored these two disasters but he sure got up on a soapbox to tell the Nation that guns are evil. Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) From what I have heard from various sources they receive very little training with their firearms here in Canada and the majority of officers only complete the minimum range time required. Most officers couldn't hit a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood at 30 paces... I think you've watched too many movies if you think any tactical ability is required to stop a shooter in a situation like this. Take cover, unholster firearm, shoot. I've got a lot of family in law enforcement, you're assumptions are pretty funny. Until you're actually in the situation, you have no idea what you've actually do I'd guess take cover like everyone else. Doesn't really work out well for your GI Joe fantasy though Edited October 4, 2015 by BillM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Cliff Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Cliff, your heart is often in the right place, but sometimes your mind is in the wrong place. Well Steve I hope my heart is always in the right place, I don't go to church but I do try to live my life like god is always watching. As far as my mind; well at almost 70 I do tend to sometimes forget things and I don't always understand what is happening in the world around me. I try to look at a situation like this and understand it from my perspective which is old school. When I THINK I have a hypothesis then I try to come up with theorem that works for me. If I am missing something here please help me to learn and understand, I am more than willing to stand corrected if I am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister G Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 I wonder how many lives would have been saved if Chris Mintz had been armed instead of only having his body to try to stop the shooter? You can take away all the guns you want but if these nut cases have their mind set on killing people they will do it with or without a gun. Anyone with minimal knowledge or access to the internet can build a bomb in no time at all from simple easy to get house hold ingredients. It is almost a daily news item just here in Toronto where someone has been stabbed, what's next, do we ban knives? These things aren't being done by the baby boomers, it's being done by the "me now" generation. These kids have been brought up in a world where they don't have to work for anything, it just gets handed to them. When the handouts stop coming they just start taking because that's all they know. They have no idea what "accountability or socially acceptable" mean, everytime they have done anything wrong they get coddled. In my day if you acted up in school you got the strap, if your mother sent you to your room and you gave her any lip you came too in your room with a headache. Today if a teacher looks at a student the wrong way they get jumped on, if a parrent even threatens to smack their kids butt they can be charged. You want this stuff to stop? It's easy just get back to the old values where you worked for what you got and you got what you deserved. When is the last time you heard of any of these things happening in Mennoite or Amish communities? Well said Cliff old boy......you hit the nail right on the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landry Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 I agree with Cliff totally. I also agree that better gun laws/control...can only help, but likely not fix the problem. I also believe that America's political machine is badly broken - driven by self serving lobbyists, big business and right wing conservative bullies who will do anything to gain power. Unfortunately Obama, Hillary or even Donald (God help us all) will have an uphill, nearly impossible task of bringing about any significant reform, whether it's on guns, border issues, immigration, the environment or economics. It's like watching a slow motion train wreck AND unfortunate Canada is attached and in the last train car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrpink Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 First mention of gun control and most get their knickers in a bunch. I am Canadian, but lived in the USA for 3 years, Texas of all states. I have grown up around firearms my entire life, rifles, shotguns, handguns and still enjoy the sport of skeet and long range, but I do feel that certain checks and balances are required for those who wish to own any firearm. There are certain firearms that have very little purpose besides in a hostile environment. Any AR platform with a box magazine, what purpose does this pose for a hunter or sportsman, just one of many possible examples. Simple fact, society is a messed up place, some worse then others. America stands by a constitutionalr night that was written in a time, by people that could not even fathom the outcome of their decisions. But when it comes to the health and well being of their people, it seems those rights are not as important. Until someone finally addresses the root cause, a society with a self centered, my rights are more important then others, America will continue to see their innocent gunned down while trying to achieve that "American dream" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioFisherman Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Actually Cliff is right on this as he often is in my opinion. The sickness is not the guns but the people who use them incorrectly. Is a man who stabs another any less mentally disturbed than a man who shot someone? We as a society feed on these horror stories. So far i haven't hear word one on this forum of the 33 people on a ship that died in the hurricane or the massive flooding going on in the south. Face it folks we are ghoulish in the news we choose to react to. Even Obama has ignored these two disasters but he sure got up on a soapbox to tell the Nation that guns are evil. Art Did you miss your daily dose of Fox? http://www.foxnews.com/weather/2015/10/03/more-rain-flooding-forecast-along-soggy-east-coast/ " President Obama declared a state of emergency in South Carolina and ordered federal aid to help state and local efforts. " They are looking for the ship and or survivors? Does the president know they are dead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirCranksalot Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 I must admit there is a certain amount of logic in the pro-gun stance. However----and this is a very big however----that logic is not supported by the FACTS. The fact is that the US has the most guns and the most gun deaths. Now, unless you believe that is some sort of coincidence , I suggest you question your logic rather than the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aplumma Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Did you miss your daily dose of Fox? http://www.foxnews.com/weather/2015/10/03/more-rain-flooding-forecast-along-soggy-east-coast/ " President Obama declared a state of emergency in South Carolina and ordered federal aid to help state and local efforts. " They are looking for the ship and or survivors? Does the president know they are dead? Really you feel that he was as quick on the draw on the flooding and the ship loss? You haven't seen a press conference on either disaster yet. Obama is a puppets head showboating for only the issues that forward his agenda. However my point was to show that we as people want to see the ghoulish news well before we want to read of other tragedies that have cost more lives. Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeontroller Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Actually Cliff is right on this as he often is in my opinion. The sickness is not the guns but the people who use them incorrectly. Is a man who stabs another any less mentally disturbed than a man who shot someone? We as a society feed on these horror stories. So far i haven't hear word one on this forum of the 33 people on a ship that died in the hurricane or the massive flooding going on in the south. Face it folks we are ghoulish in the news we choose to react to. Even Obama has ignored these two disasters but he sure got up on a soapbox to tell the Nation that guns are evil. Art I'm sorry, i thought this discussion was about Guns, and mass shootings... Art, did you vote for George W. Bush? Just curious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRIFTER_016 Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 As has been pointed out, guns are not the problem. People are!!! 29 killed in China by knife-wielding attackers!!! http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/01/world/asia/china-railway-attack/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aplumma Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 I'm sorry, i thought this discussion was about Guns, and mass shootings... Art, did you vote for George W. Bush? Just curious... I actually said Forum not this thread so I implied that a new thread has not been started. Divulging who i voted for will do little to help change your opinion of my beliefs. A question back to you is Who played Lumpy on Leave it to Beaver? both have the same amount of relevance here........ Thanks for asking though Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioFisherman Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Really you feel that he was as quick on the draw on the flooding and the ship loss? You haven't seen a press conference on either disaster yet. Obama is a puppets head showboating for only the issues that forward his agenda. However my point was to show that we as people want to see the ghoulish news well before we want to read of other tragedies that have cost more lives. Art Art, unlike the shooting, the storms affecting the east coast are not over and done with? At this stage of the game, with the total impact and area of the damage still unknown? Is it proper for him to be on TV making comments? Some would also accuse him of showboating if he did that? The Coast Guard has had planes and helicopters in the air searching for that ship since yesterday, weather conditions were making the search difficult. Should he have been on TV with a eulogy with the facts still uncertain? He would also be claimed to be showboating by some? It's a bit early in the events for a mission accomplished speech and photo session? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Nelson Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 The ignorant Americans trying to defend the Second Ammendment and US guns laws need to open their eyes. Over 25000 kids ( under 19) killed with guns by their own citizens in the last 10 years. Trillions spent on anti terrorist agendas, while there is a bigger problem in their own backyard. And if you think that those statistics wouldnt change if there were no handguns or automatic weapons available ( sorry, pencils and knives...) then you are proving that you dont have the intelligence level to even own a firearm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeontroller Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) Nope, guns aren't the problem. Its the people who own them, steal them, defend easy access to them... Art, your constant bashing of President Obama makes me wonder if you'd be happier with his predecessor! Which really scares me...Considering you have an election coming....And who's running... Edited October 4, 2015 by Pigeontroller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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