Matt Janes Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 I will try to make this as clear and concise as possible... I have a 2 stroke Oil Injected Johnson Outboard year 2000 model. Went out last night on the Ottawa River and ran out of gas. I had a second tank in the boat but the motor would not start and me pumping the primer bulb a bunch probably didn't help. We we were loading the boat onto the trailer we noticed some oil coming from the prop area and a bit from the water drain holes (I have read that this can be normal? http://forums.iboats....php?t=207285). I got the boat home and plugged the garden hose into the back of it and turned the key and it started right away, problem solved. Or so I thought.... We went out tonight on the Rideau. The motor started great when we put the boat in the water and motored our way to a spot to fish. I trimmed the motor out of the water as the water was shallow and we were using the trolling motor. When it was time to move I started the motor for a brief half a second, realized I had the motor out of the water, so I turned it off right away. From that moment on I couldn't get the motor to start. When I tilted the motor out of the water I noticed the same oil coming from the same places as the day before. I had to take the tow of shame from a fellow boater back to the launch. Again, I got the boat home, plugged in the garden hose and it started up right away again! I really have no idea whats going on here. But if anyone has any suggestions it would be greatly appreciated. We are planning a fishing trip to Lake Kashawakamak this weekend and I really would like to use my boat! I don't want to take it to the mechanics unless I have to as I don't know if I would have it back by Friday morning... Sorry for the long story... A couple of pics attached to explain better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Starting the motor for a few seconds then shutting it down without it being submerged is not going to instantly destroy it, so don't worry about that. Although I don't like all the oil leaking from the lower unit. I dunno how anyone would consider that normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hirk Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Looks like fogging oil, is it the 1st time it ran this yr? If it is your plugs are likely just fouled & you flooded it. Make sure its level when you start it because it has carbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tybo Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Float bowls are all gunked up from running it dry.Needs a good cleaning and/or carb rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Janes Posted July 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Looks like fogging oil, is it the 1st time it ran this yr? If it is your plugs are likely just fouled & you flooded it. Make sure its level when you start it because it has carbs. I actually just boat the motor and boat from someone who had cancer and sold their trailer and then their boat. I got the boat on Saturday that just passed and I tools it out the day I got it, Sunday as well and Monday. All without any issue, although I wasn't looking/didn't notice any oil leaking. I have no idea how long it had been since the motor had run could have been a year or two for all I know. It was tuned up just over a month ago and they replaced the gear lube, an O ring and cotter pin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinker Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 What kind of oil is it? Gear oil? Does it stink? Looks like you need your lower unit seals done at the very least. Drain it and see what comes out. I bet its mostly water. No idea why it won't start, but I'd say your carbs need a good cleaning for sure. At the very least, get a can of seafoam and run it thru. Should help clean it up, but might not move any larger junk stuck in the carbs. s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRIFTER_016 Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Some questions: 1/ was this the first time it was run this year (fogging oil in the cylinders)? 2/ did you mix the fuel or is it left over from the old owner? 3/ have you changed the plugs? Some things to try: 1/ There could be too much oil in your mix so mix a new batch with a good quality oil (either a premium or synthetic oil) your engine will thank you and it will run smooter with less smoke). If using synthetic follow the mixing instructions on the bottle as you need less oil than with regular dino oil. 2/ pull plugs and replace them (clean the old ones with a wire brush and keep them as spares) Some things you need to know: 1/ Starting the motor while the lower unit is out of the water will damage the water pump impeller (a few seconds won't) 2/ Starting the motor while it is tilted can flood the engine (thus the reason it wouldn't start) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave524 Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 I would think the colour of that oil is too dark for lower end, I would get that if I trolled a lot with my 80's vintage 2 stroke, unburned 2 stroke oil in the exhaust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Janes Posted July 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Some questions: 1/ was this the first time it was run this year (fogging oil in the cylinders)? 2/ did you mix the fuel or is it left over from the old owner? 3/ have you changed the plugs? Some things to try: 1/ There could be too much oil in your mix so mix a new batch with a good quality oil (either a premium or synthetic oil) your engine will thank you and it will run smooter with less smoke). If using synthetic follow the mixing instructions on the bottle as you need less oil than with regular dino oil. 2/ pull plugs and replace them (clean the old ones with a wire brush and keep them as spares) Some things you need to know: 1/ Starting the motor while the lower unit is out of the water will damage the water pump impeller (a few seconds won't) 2/ Starting the motor while it is tilted can flood the engine (thus the reason it wouldn't start) 1) 5th trip since I bought the boat. Could have sat for a long time prior to me running it. 2) No oil to mix. It's oil injected. 3) haven't changed the spark plugs. Thanks for the help. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinker Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 One easy way to find out if its lower unit oil is to drain it. Takes less than a minute to know for sure, and a liter of oil is cheap. Once you figure out where the oil is coming from, you can work your way from there. S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheaptackle Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 How old is the gas? Might be the beginning of a shellac build up. But do check the lower unit as others have been saying - you have 2 separate & distinct issues. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishAbout Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 A lot of the carb 2 strokes are hard to start if you have them trimmed up. When you stared it at home did you have it all the way down? Will start much better all the way down. I would change the bottom gear oil and look for milky gear oil. If its milky you have a bad seal. Suck out the old gas and oil from injector and start with fresh gas and oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garnet Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Fish knows. Lot's of these OMC's don't start worth a crap unless the motor is trimmed level. Start using Sea Foam. And 1 issues is constant re fueling $10-20 every time you go out. Run your tank's down under 1/4 then fill up with nice fresh gas. Sounds like your need a seal job. Check your lower unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hirk Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 The hole leaking up high is a pressure relief over fill vent for the gearcase but exhaust passes through the same cavity,its possible it was over filled when they changed the oil but doubt it since if it leaked at the rear seal it wouldnt have the pressure to leak past the relief seal. The crap your seeing is unburned fuel with carbon it picked up in the exhaust,so your dumping fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecmilley Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 how's is ir running when it's running? several things are possible, when you run out of gas on these it doesn't make the vro unit happy the mixing device is vacuum operated and the oil piston will still be pumping oil even if theres no fuel, it can be a bit of a chore to get it to start and run again, is the primer bulb staying hard when the engine is running? i have to squeeze the bulb in my vro equipped engine for 2-3 minutes to clear all the air once it is running again or it won't get off idle and then the plugs could be fouled from oil anyway. have you touched anything under the cowl? there is a primer solenoid/vapor pump has a valve with a red tab on it make sure the red tab is down or it'll dump fuel like crazy not starting- again check the fuel bulb could be some leaks draining the carbs or fuel pump and causing excessive crank times. also possible stator is starting to go when hot can't create enough ignition voltage on the power coils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davew3 Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Matt, I have an older motor and have run into this myself. It is oil from your fuel running out the exhaust port. I have found that if I have had my engine tilted for a while it is difficult to start. So two things. One, make sure your battery is fully charged, so when it fires you get enough of a spark to ignite the fuel and oil in each cylinder. 2- if you can, put your motor down for a while before you plan to go out. Also just before you leave the water to go home take your boat for a good run to heat up your engine and burn off any excess oil in each cylinder. And as well buy the best oil you can. At trolling speed you may not be burning off all of the oil that gets mixed into you gas. Hope this helps. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbuck Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 NEW PLUGS!! A can of seafoam for the fuel tank. Change the lower unit oil with the correct type. If the stuff that comes out is milky, then you have a leaky seal in the lower unit. You'll be out about 40 bucks for everything but these are the things you will be able to do easily and yourself without paying. Check iboats.com forums. Very helpful for both new and experienced boat owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbuck Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Btw, plugs should be done at least yearly with a 2 stroke. Run a bit oif seafoam in every tank to keep the fuel system and cylinders clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 The oil is most likely unburned oil from the combustion process. I'd suggest a better quality oil that is designed to burn off better. Verify the lower unit oil is OK and not leaking however. When you ran out of fuel it most likely sucked in some dirt into the carbs. When you trailered it may have dislodged the offending dirt. It's still in there. Seafoam may help, but it is designed to remove fuel deposits, not most dirt or rust. To save yourself another tow job, it may be prudent to clean the carbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Bob Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 What HP is this motor ? ? ? Your lower unit is NOT leaking oil......this is too much oil from your VRO unit....could be faulty. And this could be a starting problem.....my guess is when you tilt the motor out of the water the carbs drain off and then the VRO pump made up for the lack of gas by injecting extra oil....this is also what happens when you run out of gas with a VRO engine...I have a 1985 50hp VRO and as soon as I hear it running out of gas I turn off the key and switch tanks. What kind of plugs are you using in this unit.......there should be 2 choices.......high speed (plug only has a center electrode) or low speed plug that looks like a conventional plug...this is the one I would recommend. AGAIN....your lower unit is NOT leaking that oil.....it's coming from the power head. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Janes Posted July 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) Thanks for the help everyone. This is a 25HP Johnson. I might have made a mistake and brought it in for service this morning as my knowledge with outboards I limited but I am learning more as things go wrong! We are supposed to be heading out for the weekend tomorrow afternoon so fingers crossed that the motor is fixed by then. I will definately post what they did though. As I am reading more and more of your posts I may have been able to rectify the problem myself (if there even is a major problem to begin with!). Edited July 26, 2012 by Matt Janes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonl Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 A new set of plugs should sort it out...When an oil injected motor is run out of gas, all the motor gets is 2 stroke oil for the combustion process, and lots of it, if it is cranked over for a while before realising that the gas tank is empty. This fouls the plugs easily. I feel the oil around the lower unit is just the excess 2 stroke oil drooling out of your well lubricated motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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