Our house and a new zoning bylaw - NF

[Hookset]

Hi All,

 

My girlfriend and I have lived / owned our current home for about 4 years now in Bracebridge. My favourite feature about it is that although we reside on the edge of town we only have direct neighbours on one side, lets say the north side. The property the neighbour owns is extensive and includes a large parcel of land directly behind our home to the east. We love it because we can sit out at night, have a fire, and feel like we are nowhere near town. Our little piece of heaven you might say (we are easily pleased). The south side of our property is bordered by a private road which runs east to a large condominium complex which is far enough down the road that it can't be seen. HOWEVER. This a.m. we received a letter stating that the parcel of land behind us is up for a zoning change to allow the building of condominiums. The implications to us are huge. Property value, noise, privacy, traffic, water drainage, just to name a few. There is a meeting tomorrow night where residents can express their objections and we are trying to gather more neighbours to show a unified opposition. My questions are, has anyone ever had to deal with the same situation ? Is there a process which can be tabled other than a basic objection ? Should I immediately get a survey done or wait for the builders / owners to do so ? Do I tie myself to a tree in the yard (kidding). I thank anyone who can shed some light on this, and I know I have probably missed several points but we are kinda freaked at the moment.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Hookset.

[lenray]

iF YOU DON'T WANT NEIGHBORS step up and buy the land. That is what I do.

 

You probably can't afford to buy it so try to make the owner be put into a positon where he can't develope it.

[bigfish1965]

Usually, town councils are very sensitive to these developments. They would rather make you happy because you can vote (whereas the future residents cannot vote yet). IF your council requires a person be placed onto the agenda prior to speaking, make sure you add your name. Prepare a speach outlining your objections. Make it 99% fact and 1% emotion. You need to give the town good reasons to say no. Barring that (there is lots of legislation from the province outlining mandatory population densities to prevent urban sprawl) try and make sure that there is sufficient understanding about what type of development you would like to see...stuff that fits in with existing homes, lot sizes consistent with the surrounding neighbourhood, development of open spaces, etc.

Drainage is a significant concern and one that is mandated by the province before any plan can come into fruition. Development must not increase local runoff. This is no easy task.

Development does not always have a negative impact on your homes value, but may have a negative impact on your taxes.

The province now allows municipalities the ability to collect FULL payment for all increases in the load to services. No longer are the rest of the town expected to subsidize new subdivisions. In the past towns never collected anywhere near enough to cover the costs of new sewers, roads and increased demands on existing services. Make sure your town is applying development fees that recover 100% of costs so your property taxes don't go up.

 

Development is inevitable and is mandated by the Municipal Act and a few other acts, so the best you can do is make sure new developments fit in with what is already there. High rises built around farms do not fit into that equation.

[Terry]

you already have one condominium on your road

so I am sorry to say you don't have much of a chance of stopping the new condominium from being built........

 

 

 

put a big compost pile of the worst smelling filtered try again please you can find, go to the rezoning meetings and tell them there is a smell that all tenants will have to deal with and that you will have a sign in your front yard warning buys of the extreme smell they will have to deal with in the summer...that might make them think about it

 

 

down side you will have to put up with the smell too

[lookinforwalleye]

Anytime there is vacant land around your property there is the potential for development I recall sometime ago I was looking at a property in Orangeville and the agent was promoting the fact that there was no neighbors behind i looked into this further and sure enough there was a site plan to develope the property.

Where I currently live in Orangeville there is always somebody doing battle with a developer it does not seem to matter what the project is it is not wanted in their neighbourhood.

If you have a concern about this potential development attend the meeting and get all the details and then you can decide if any action is warranted just remember progress is a sign of the times more and more smaller communities are looking for this type of development to enhance their tax base and to accomodate the growing number of retires that are looking for this type of development outside of the large urban area`s.

[mdej]

Having seen situations like this in past you have a couple options.

 

1) As Rick explained. Get on the list to speak, keep it to the point, raise issues about traffic, road conditions, drainage, noise, loss of view, etc etc. Only use items that are real and you can justify. Decrease in value is always debatable as sometimes new development actually increases the value of your home/land.

 

2) Find out who the development corporation is. Get an assessed re-sale value of your home. Approach the development corporation to see if they are interested in purchasing at this price. Since you are already beside the drive way in, they may want to alter the entrance/exit and need your property to do so.

If you do follow this path, do it quickly as part of the development the would be submitting plans. The rezoning of your property could be added to the existing proposal.

 

Since a condo complex exists already the odd's are not in your favor. I feel really bad for you this will be a trying time. Make sure you spend the energy wisely don't just talk about it, do something about it.

 

And remember the rumors from your neighbours are just that.... rumors. Most development companies are up front honest businesses. If you have questions or concerns they will assign a liaison or community rep etc. They will provide you with the most honest and open answers.

 

Ensure in you speech to your council that they 1) Have a liaison assigned, 2) Have clearly defined dispute resolution mechanism. The development corp will complain some, but hold your ground. These are the little things that can make the process simpler.

 

 

Oh - Hire a good lawyer or at least get in contact with one. You may not need them, but then again you might.

[POLLIWOGG]

filtered try again please is a controlled substance now that we have nutrient management, you can't just pile filtered try again please anymore unless you have a proper acreage/filtered try again please ratio, unless Terry wasn't referring to actual filtered try again please but some other smelly filtered try again please.

 

What you need is a hundred geese . "Winfield Farm"

[Cast-Away]

Rick made some really good points. I had a similar fight in Newmarket a few years ago. The first thing that I did was to get a coalition of concerned neighbours together in order to brain-storm our ideas. I also invited our local Councilor in order to get sound advice. He basically told us that passionate plea's fall on deaf ears. You have to make a sound argument such as; this doesn't fit in with the historic buildings in the area. A really good argument is the safety factor with the increased traffic flow. What will happen with all of the vehicles coming and going from the street? Are there allot of children playing in the area?

Another possible argument is a possible environmental impact.

 

Get a group together, make up one petition for all to sign, make form letters for people to individually sign and send in separately and if a number of you are to speak, make sure that what you say does not overlap each other or they will cut you short. Absolutely do not mention that "it will change the value of my property". They hate to hear that one. Also try to get the Councilor on your side. They can often swing the other votes there way. They often trade favours back and forth.

 

Good luck!

[aplumma]

After reading your story you have raised reasons that you don't want the development to happen in your back yard but their is little if any chance it will be stopped. You will have to show that it will damage the physical characteristics of your property like the water will flood your property. The noise factor is only enforced between certain hours and can't be preproven. The lose of privacy and the view are not tangible items that you can claim damages for. If the land could not be zoned for it then they would not be attempting to rezone it. They have spent 100 of thousands of dollars to get to this point and the meeting is just for you to raise your concerns it is not for you to stop it from happening. Anything that you can prove will damage your property now is the time to get the proof and get compensated for. After this point the best you can do is sue the corporate and guess how much that will cost you $$$$. I have gone thru this "preserve the open country views"and "not in my back yard " idealism here and when corporate money is thrown at it they will win. Besides the only way to guarantee your view or neighbors is buy the land next door.

 

 

Art

[Garyv]

We have been fighting a development for the past 7years...yes 7 years. The municipality finally listened to the locals about two years ago and when they hired their own environmental company and did their own research and were informed about the environmental disaster the lakefront portion of the development would do. They found that we the residents were 100 per cent correct and the developers environmental people were just going through the paperwork motions without doing the environmental research. Anyway, the municipality allowed them 30 units at the base of the Algonquin bluff which is about 500 feet from the lake. They now want 40 units and not only are we going to the OMB on the lakefront problem but the extra 10 unit problem as well. To be honest it's all a game to see who will get the most. Development is going to happen, what has helped us has been a 90+ percent showing of the current residents that attend every meeting regarding this development and the lack of American buyers due to a strong Canadian dollar and the border crossing time on the weekends to name just two.

 

I have to be honest and tell you that based on my experience if it's just you objecting, unless you can get a good reason for the development to be stopped or at least scaled back...something like service availability, sewers required, environmental destruction etc. you better have deep pockets as the developer will just appeal to the OMB if they do not get what they want and then it will cost you to fight them. Municipalities love tax revenue and for the most part think every new development is "wonderful" for the community. I like you choose to live rural but as they say nothing is forever.

[jjcanoe]

On a less serious note since I have no experience with this sort of thing(not to make fun of your situation)

 

Get a big sign out in the front yard advertising :

 

HOOKSET's ABBOTIOR AND CUSTOM KILLING OPENING SOON

 

2) Find out who the development corporation is. Get an assessed re-sale value of your home. Approach the development corporation to see if they are interested in purchasing at this price. Since you are already beside the drive way in, they may want to alter the entrance/exit and need your property to do so.

If you do follow this path, do it quickly as part of the development the would be submitting plans. The rezoning of your property could be added to the existing proposal

 

A really good point, you may be able to get well above market value for your home and start a new with a nice piece of waterfront to dock the boat on.

Waterfront means: No neighbours to the rear ever!

 

jjcanoe

[jeffya2]

I am usually a lurker only but decided to chime in as I experienced this 2x & won 2x

I live in Muskoka as well 30 Miles from you

 

My 1st step would be to form an association of concerned citizens As a named group you can be put on the mailing list to receive all minutes of any Council meetings concerning this development {which immediately stops a lot of closed door nonsense}

 

My 2nd step would be to contact Mr Russ Black a OMB specialty lawyer in Bracebridge he is simply the best & will tell you what you may have to work with {He also has worked with Mary Moroz an excellent planner from Port Sydney} She helped develop Haliburton and possibly Muskoka's "Official Plan" as well These initial steps won't cost a lot if shared by a group.

 

Don't be fooled by developers "big pockets" as sometimes it doesn't come to this. Town councils often overlook their own bylaws & an independent planner or OBM lawyer will find you the keys to fight with & sometimes stop it prior to any OMB involvement

 

Firstly look very hard @ environmental impact. If there is any water running through the property {especially standing water} Filling ponds, standing water or rerouting water flow is a big no no. Every development must have MOE & MOT approval & if you get either on your side they have instant trump cards on any development even over town councils.

 

STUDIES, STUDIES, STUDIES. Make sure that your council demands as many studies as possible from, impact, feasibility, Environmental, drainage, traffic, & damage to surrounding people & waters {Everything that you can think of} as it is an easy way for the council to appease disgruntled voters but insure if you go to OBM they have covered their A-SSSS

 

Lastly is a VERY IMPORTANT POINT Muskoka has an official plan which was laid out @ great expense to specifically afford for future development. To change zoning is going against their own Official Plan which OMB frowns upon. If it's a good idea now then it should have been in the "Official Plan" Your council may now have a very difficult time explaining why they want to go against the Professional planners they hired to develop Muskoka's Official Plan

 

You may be surprised what a determined, vocal & organized group can accomplish. After all Walmart was stopped in Bracebridge & there are no deeper pockets. They simply took the path of least resistance & built in Huntsville

 

I registered after 2 years of lurking & activated my email . Feel free to contact me if you have any questions that I may help you with.

 

Good Luck!!

[OhioFisherman]

Try to get the names of the people on the town council that support the condos, if most people in the area don`t it might scare them to see their names in the local paper supporting the condos. Voters might make them get a real job.

 

Our area is rural and it seems like most people here want it to stay that way. We don`t have multi-home building, and we have a minimum 3 acre lot size with 200 feet of frontage. Back lots are allowed but must be 6 acres.

 

Moves to get the lot size decreased fail and the people pushing the moves usually get voted out. A lot of back door dealing though, you never hear much about who is making campaign contributions to smaller towns elections, a lot might be from developers.

[pikehunter]

Too bad, a fight to save what you have is not something to look forward to. I guess the answer really is that if you live next to vacant property near a growing community you have to expect it to be developed some day. That is very unfortunate and sad to say the least.

 

Maybe this is a simpler solution: FOR SALE. Start looking for a new paradise. If the developer has deep pockets I wish you well with your fight. Anybody who has witnessed the fight in Burlington Ontario over Walmart's new store will agree as Walmart ended up winning when the city ran out of money to continue the war.

[John]

Too bad, a fight to save what you have is not something to look forward to. I guess the answer really is that if you live next to vacant property near a growing community you have to expect it to be developed some day. That is very unfortunate and sad to say the least.

 

Maybe this is a simpler solution: FOR SALE. Start looking for a new paradise. If the developer has deep pockets I wish you well with your fight. Anybody who has witnessed the fight in Burlington Ontario over Walmart's new store will agree as Walmart ended up winning when the city ran out of money to continue the war.

 

Unfortunately Burlington was fighting a war that it could not win. It really had nothing to do with running out of money. Why plow another 1/2 mil into legal fees when it was a done deal.

 

Seems to me that Muskoka is past the point of no return when it comes to development. I have a cousin who is a general contractor on Lake of Bays and unfortunately fractional ownerships and condo's are being approved on an ongoing basis. As there is an existing development with a private road, I don't think that your battle is winnable either.

 

I hope that I'm wrong....

[Hookset]

Hi All,

 

Just wanted to send a BIG THANKYOU to all who replied. When I showed my girlfriend all of the educated and informative replies that I printed off, I could tell what she was thinking....

"You got all this from an Ontario fishing website ????!!!!"

I have taken points from Rick, Lookin for Walleye, mdej, Cast-Away, Aplumma, OhioFisherman, Pikehunter,

John, Garyv, and jeffya2, and have used them to arm myself for tonight's meeting. Lenray, if I had enough money to buy all that property I'd be living somewhere else, namely waterfront property. Terry and jjcanoe, I will use your composting / abbotoir ideas when all else fails, thanks for the laugh though, we needed it. If I have missed anyone, my apologies. All the info. I gathered from other sources doesn't measure to a hill of beans compared to what I got from the OFC members. Win or lose I'm better armed now than I could have expected. I am one who believes that unless you fight for what you think is right, you have no reason to complain.

 

Thanks again everyone.

 

Hookset.

[John]

Hi Hookset, I wish you well. Keep up informed...

[lew]

Best of luck tonite Hookset, and it'd be good to hear how you make out.

[aplumma]

Good luck bud and take the info they give you and cut the best deal you can.

 

 

Art

[Big Cliff]

Sorry I didn't get to reply sooner, might even be too late but my wife worked for a planning dept for a number of years and she could perhaps help you to at least know some of the ropes. If youare still in the process please let me know and I will see if we can at least point you in the right direction. You might not get what you want but at least you will know you didn't go to a gun fight with a knife!

[Hookset]

Well, we just got back from the meeting. We were one of two families presenting "against" the change to the zoning bylaw. Regardless of what we presented, argued or defined as issues, we were basically told that all of those arguments could be presented in the "appeals" process and that a vote by council would be made tonight. Vote the council did. 100 % of the council, mayor included, voted in favor of changing the zoning. You would almost think the decision was made beforehand . We now have 20 days within which to make an appeal, so we see our choices limited to this : (1) We either fight to the end, and appeal our butts off. (2) We start the process of preparing to sell. Either way is pretty difficult. To afford a lawyer is one issue, but to be only one of two families opposed against a corporation with total town council support is another thing. Looks like the little guys took a kick to the teeth in the first round. Right now we feel like we will fight using the appeals process best we can on our own, and while doing so, try and sell (privately or to the developer). In the end, if the Condo's are going to be built (40 units, 4 stories high) there is no way we could stay. Right now our property faces out onto a busy street. We knew that when we moved in. We have a road going to the current Condo's on our south border. With the development we would have another road abutting our north side and a parking lot abutting to our east side. Surrounded by pavement in what used to be a very park like setting. Hell, we even had deer in our backyard several times this past year. Doubt we'll see them again. Anyway, we know what has been dealt us, we appreciate all the support and replies we have received from OFC'ers but right now it looks like one of those crappy deals you get dealt when dealing with town councils, tax dollars, and corporations. I need a beer and a good fishing story.

 

Hookset.

[pikehunter]

Sorry to hear that it didn't go in your favour. Sometimes I think that town/city councils are only interested in the added tax money that will be generated by new housing, retail and industrial developments. Plus all the new voters moving into their ridings.

 

This is happening everywhere, some call it progress. I don't agree with this diagnosis. If you decide to move on I wish you success with the sale and the search for a new home. So much property is being swallowed by development, and so much of it is being taken up with multiple dwellings.

[irishfield]

Sorry to hear Hookset...but like Pikehunter says, all the township sees is tax dollars and yes the re-zone was decided LONG before the info meeting.

 

Penetang and Midland are both perfect examples of only "seeing" tax dollars. Both harbours water fronts have been ruined by re-zoning and multi-story eye sores on the waterfront that was originally green space, in a town with 2 story max building code. Now the 4/5 story waterfronts are blocking views of the water to even people part way up the escarpement.

[Bernie]

Very sorry for you hookset. My heart would sink if it happened here as well. I can only imagine how you feel right now. Keep hearing about our area becoming the next Muskoka. Hope its not in my lifetime.

[pikehunter]

"Pave paradise and put up a parking lot, put all the trees in a tree museum and charge the people a buck and a half just to see them."