Propane prices could go through the roof

[Handlebarz]

I just read this from a local site here in the Chatham area it sure does not sound good for back yard BBQ's or heating your campers

 

.....want to read this!:(:mad:

 

"Hold onto your wallets 'cause Dalton and his gang are at it again!"

 

Ontario Propane Legislation

 

Another Government Blunder!!

 

Well, in the Ontario governments latest brainstorming session they have now set their sights on the supply of propane and making it almost impossible for the average consumer or business to purchase it. In a release that I just received from the Ontario Propane Association, the Ontario Recreational Vehicle Dealers Association and Camping in Ontario the latest bill Ontario Regulation 440/08 due to come into effect January 01 2011 will see the many distribution centres that dot the Province require the services of a Professional Engineer to the tune of $25,000 per site to develop what they term a Risk and Safety Management Plan. This plan would take up to three months to prepare, again, by site. What this will mean to the average consumer is that we will no longer be able to get our BBQ or RV tanks filled at the local refueling station as many can not afford these initial and ongoing costs. The larger centres where propane might still be available will see prices escalate, some even speculating above $50 per 20lb tank just to fill making camping, one of the best past times, that much more expensive, possibly forcing some to stop camping. A lot of families and retirees alike are on strict budgets. If Ontario Regulation 440/08 is implemented as written, it is surmised that 90% of Ontario's propane refill installations will close. We, as a company, normally supply our new trailers with full propane tanks but will no longer have access to an economical supply as well as the average consumer will be out in the cold, literally.

So what can be done?? Please contact your local MPP and let them know that this regulation HAS to be modified so that we consumers and business's alike have access to an economical supply of propane. We all understand that Safety is of the utmost importance when it comes to any fuel. Hopefully cooler heads can prevail and we can come up with a SAFE and ECONOMICAL solution otherwise OUR lively-hood and your past time is in jeopardy.

 

 

Here is the actual legislation........

 

 

ONTARIO REGULATION 440/08

 

made under the

 

TECHNICAL STANDARDS AND SAFETY ACT, 2000

 

Made: December 10, 2008

Filed: December 11, 2008

Published on e-Laws: December 12, 2008

Printed in The Ontario Gazette: December 27, 2008

 

 

Amending O. Reg. 211/01

 

(Propane Storage and Handling)

 

Note: Ontario Regulation 211/01 has not previously been amended.

 

1. (1) The definition of “facility” in subsection 1 (1) of Ontario Regulation 211/01 is amended by striking out “carlock/keylock” and substituting “cardlock/keylock”.

 

(2) Subsection 1 (1) of the Regulation is amended by adding the following definitions:

 

“risk and safety management plan” means a risk and safety management plan that sets out the safe operation of a retail outlet, filling plant, cardlock/keylock, private outlet or container refill centre and that meets the requirements of subsection 3.1 (1);

 

“total capacity” means the total volume of fixed, portable, mobile and all other transient storage at a retail outlet, filling plant, cardlock/keylock, private outlet or container refill centre, including the total volume of all cylinders or tanks in which propane is stored and any tanker trunks or rail cars that stay at the retail outlet, filling plant, cardlock/keylock, private outlet or container refill centre for longer than it takes for the propane to be transferred;

 

“USWG” means volume in U.S. water gallons;

 

2. The Regulation is amended by adding the following section:

 

Risk and safety management plan, certain facilities

 

3.1 (1) A person who holds a licence to operate a retail outlet, filling plant, cardlock/keylock, private outlet or container refill centre shall prepare a risk and safety management plan, which shall, at a minimum, address the following matters:

 

1. A hazard analysis that identifies possible hazardous scenarios, the frequency of those scenarios and their consequences, and that takes into account,

 

i. the most severe incident or situation that could occur at the referenced facility based on the total capacity of propane at the referenced facility, and

 

ii. any less severe incident or situation that could occur at the referenced facility.

 

2. A risk assessment that is based on the single largest transient, mobile, portable, or fixed propane storage vessel, as the case may be, at the referenced facility and that,

 

i. estimates the injury or death that would likely be caused to people at or in the vicinity of the referenced facility as a result of an incident or situation described in paragraph 1,

 

ii. reasonably estimates the hazard distance applicable to the referenced facility, and

 

iii. concludes that the assessed risk is acceptable based on the measures described in paragraphs 3 and 4.

 

3. A risk mitigation and control plan that is based on the reasonable measures taken to limit the risks assessed in subparagraphs 2 i and ii. Where total capacity at the referenced facility exceeds 5,000 USWG, the risk mitigation and control plan, in addition to accounting for the matters in subparagraph 2 i, shall also consider nearby land use.

 

4. An emergency response and preparedness plan that provides for onsite and offsite procedures, including evacuation procedures, to be followed in the event of an incident or situation described in paragraph 1.

 

(2) The risk and safety management plan shall be prepared,

 

(a) by a professional engineer, where the total capacity of propane at the retail outlet, filling plant, cardlock/keylock, private outlet or container refill centre is 120,000 litres or more (30,000 USWG); or

 

( by a person who has specialized knowledge in the field of risk management, where the total capacity of the retail outlet, filling plant, cardlock/keylock, private outlet or container refill centre is less than 120,000 litres (30,000 USWG).

 

(3) On receipt of the risk and safety management plan, the director shall confirm that the plan meets the requirements of this section.

 

(4) The director shall make available to the public, in print or electronic form, the evacuation procedures set out in the risk and safety management plan.

 

(5) No person shall operate a retail outlet, filling plant, cardlock/keylock, private outlet or container refill centre unless the person has submitted a risk and safety management plan to the director that meets the requirements of this section and the risk and safety management plan is kept current in accordance with this section.

 

(6) No person shall operate a retail outlet, filling plant, cardlock/keylock, private outlet or container refill centre,

 

(a) except in accordance with the risk and safety management plan; and

 

( unless the person has implemented,

 

(i) the measures set out in the risk mitigation and control plan required under paragraph 3 of subsection (1), and

 

(ii) the emergency response and preparedness plan required under paragraph 4 of subsection (1).

 

(7) No person shall operate a retail outlet, filling plant, cardlock/keylock, private outlet or container refill centre with fixed, portable, mobile or transient storage, or any combination of them, in excess of that provided for under the risk and safety management plan.

 

(8) A person who operates a retail outlet, filling plant, cardlock/keylock, private outlet or container refill centre shall maintain an up-to-date account of any changes to identified hazards, assessed risks and the emergency response and preparedness plan and shall conduct a full review of the risk and safety management plan at least annually.

 

(9) A person who operates a retail outlet, filling plant, cardlock/keylock, private outlet or container refill centre,

 

(a) shall give written notice to the director within 15 days of a change to any of the information contained in the risk and safety management plan;

 

( shall update the risk and safety management plan to reflect the change; and

 

© shall implement any risk mitigation and control measures and emergency response and preparedness measures identified as part of the update.

 

(10) Operators of retail outlets, filling plants, cardlocks/keylocks, private outlets or container refill centres shall prepare and submit their risk and safety management plans in accordance with the following schedule:

 

1. Operators in possession of a licence on or before December 31, 2008, shall submit their risk and safety management plan on the first renewal of their licence after December 31, 2010.

 

2. Operators in possession of a licence on or before December 31, 2008 who are seeking a modification of their licence,

 

i. shall submit their risk and safety management plan on the first renewal of their licence after December 31, 2010, if the application for modification of their licence is made on or before December 31, 2009, and

 

ii. shall submit their risk and safety management plan when they are applying to modify their licence, if the application for modification of their licence is made after December 31, 2009.

 

3. Persons who do not hold a licence on or before December 31, 2008,

 

i. shall submit their risk and safety management plan on the first renewal of their licence after December 31, 2010, if their application for a licence is made on or before December 31, 2009, and

 

ii. shall submit their risk and safety management plan when they apply for their licence, if their application for a licence is made after December 31, 2009.

 

3. (1) Section 5 of the Regulation is amended by adding the following subsections:

 

(3) Every person who is licensed to operate a facility under this Regulation shall ensure that their employees or agents are trained in the facility’s emergency management procedures and shall ensure that they are trained at least annually in emergency management procedures.

 

(4) Every person who is licensed to operate a facility under this Regulation shall ensure that new employees or agents receive the training required by subsection (3) as soon as is practical after they commence their responsibilities.

 

(2) Section 5 of the Regulation is amended by adding the following subsections:

 

(5) Every person who is licensed to operate a facility under this Regulation shall ensure that certificate holders or persons with a ROT, who perform functions at the facility, are provided with site-specific training and shall keep a record of the persons who were trained and the dates on which they were trained and the name of the trainer on each date.

 

(6) Every person who is licensed to operate a facility under this Regulation shall keep,

 

(a) records of the dates on which the fire protection devices, equipment or systems were serviced, maintained, repaired or tested; and

 

( the results of those tests.

 

4. Section 6 of the Regulation is amended by adding the following subsection:

 

(2) Any person who is required to hold a certificate or ROT under this Regulation shall produce it on demand of the director, an inspector, or any other person.

 

5. Section 13 of the Regulation is amended by adding the following subsection:

 

(3) No person shall operate a new or modified facility unless they have first contacted the fire service where the facility is located to provide the fire service with an opportunity to attend at the site and to become familiar with the facility.

 

6. Clause 27 (3) (d) of the Regulation is revoked and the following substituted:

 

(d) subject to subsections (15) and (16), prepare and submit a legible plan in triplicate that shows,

 

(i) the location of each propane storage tank, cylinder storage facility, underground piping or tubing and other propane handling facilities within the container refill centre or filling plant,

 

(ii) the location of parking spaces designated by the applicant for tanker truck parking,

 

(iii) the distance from each propane storage tank and cylinder storage facility to the property lines of the centre or plant,

 

(iv) each building or structure located within 50 feet of a propane storage tank,

 

(v) the location of each site where flammable or combustible substances are stored,

 

(vi) the capacity in USWG of each propane storage tank within the centre or plant, and

 

(vii) any other relevant information requested by the director that is necessary to ensure that the installation is safe and complies with this Regulation; and

 

7. The Regulation is amended by adding the following section:

 

Licensing of certain facilities

 

27.1 (1) The director shall not consider an application for a licence for a retail outlet, filling plant, cardlock/keylock, private outlet or container refill centre or an application for an expansion of one, unless it is accompanied by an approval from the fire service responsible for the area where the referenced facility is located.

 

(2) The approval of the fire service shall indicate that the fire service has approved all components of the risk and safety management plan that address fire safety, fire protection and emergency preparedness.

 

(3) On application for a licence for a retail outlet, filling plant, cardlock/keylock, private outlet or container refill centre or on application for its renewal, the applicant shall ensure that at least one person referenced in subsection (4) holds a certificate or a ROT that is at least at the highest level of certificate or certificates or ROT required for the operation of the referenced facility.

 

(4) For the purposes of subsection (3) the person who must hold the certificate or ROT is,

 

(a) an officer or director, in the case of a corporation;

 

( a partner, in the case of a partnership; or

 

© the proprietor, in the case of a sole proprietorship.

 

(5) On application for a licence for a retail outlet, filling plant, cardlock/keylock, private outlet or container refill centre or on application for a modification, the applicant shall provide a letter from the municipality or, in the case of land within a planning area consisting of territory without municipal organization, the planning board where the referenced facility is located,

 

(a) indicating that the referenced facility’s use for its intended purpose does not contravene the zoning by-laws of the municipality or of the planning board, as the case may be;

 

( confirming that the municipality or the planning board has been provided details of the proposal and has had the opportunity to comment to the applicant on the land use planning aspects of the proposal; and

 

© setting out any comments referred to in clause ( and how the applicant intends to address those applicable to the applicant’s risk and safety management plan.

 

(6) For the purposes of licensing or renewing the licence of a retail outlet, filling plant, cardlock/keylock, private outlet or container refill centre, the director shall consider its total capacity.

 

8. Section 27.1 of the Regulation, as made by section 7, is amended by adding the following subsection:

 

(7) The director shall cause retail outlets, filling plants, cardlocks/keylocks, private outlets and container refill centres to be inspected at least annually.

 

9. Section 30 of the Regulation is amended by adding the following subsection:

 

(9) Subsections 27.1 (3) and (4) apply to an application to renew a licence for a container refill centre or a filling plant whether the application is made before or after the licence has expired.

 

10. (1) Subject to subsections (2) and (3), this Regulation comes into force on December 31, 2009.

 

(2) Sections 1, 2, 4, 6 and 8 come into force on January 1, 2009.

 

(3) Subsection 3 (1) comes into force 60 days after the day this Regulation is filed.

[lookinforwalleye]

Is there anything that premier Dad does not want to screw up in this province before we boot his out of office.

[skeeter]

Thanks for the heads up.

but couldnt you have posted this before everyone closed up the trailer for the winter--LOL

damn, i hope i can get the 100LB tanks filled in may.

and i hope i can afford it

[fishing n autograph]

costco........$10 cheaper than anywhere else

[nofish4me]

TSSA has nothing to do with Dalton.

Would you like to see another propane site like TO had?

All they are doing is trying to stop a repeat occurrance.

[Pigeontroller]

Charcoal!

[Bernie]

We sell propane at our shop.

We are in a small town and we do it as much for a community service as anything else.

Also many of our customers have cottages and it's handy for them to stop here and get their tanks filled.

This legislation will be the end of this service in our town.

I will be as sorry as anyone to see it go as I use a lot of propane myself.

I really didn't like Dalton McGuinty before this and I like him a lot less now.

[BUSTER]

We sell propane at our shop.

We are in a small town and we do it as much for a community service as anything else.

Also many of our customers have cottages and it's handy for them to stop here and get their tanks filled.

This legislation will be the end of this service in our town.

I will be as sorry as anyone to see it go as I use a lot of propane myself.

I really didn't like Dalton McGuinty before this and I like him a lot less now.

[nofish4me]

I really didn't like Dalton McGuinty before this and I like him a lot less now.

 

I would really like someone to please explain to me what Dalton McGuinty has to do with this.

This is a simple request, because I really don't know. Do you?

[fishermccann]

I would really like someone to please explain to me what Dalton McGuinty has to do with this.

This is a simple request, because I really don't know. Do you?

They just want to blame the guy in power for everything , if it is not his fault then it will be the next guy. Would you want a propane filling station next door to you? I thought not. Remember Sunrise, I bet that was his fault too!

Edited October 28, 2010 by fishermccann

[bigugli]

There have been 2 serious propane blasts and fires this past year at propane depots in Southern Ontario. Obviously something is seriously amiss and needs to be addressed. Obviously self-policing, within the industry, is not working, DUHHHHHH

[crappieperchhunter]

There have been 2 serious propane blasts and fires this past year at propane depots in Southern Ontario. Obviously something is seriously amiss and needs to be addressed. Obviously self-policing, within the industry, is not working, DUHHHHHH

 

 

And there folks I believe is the correct answer.

[outllaw]

this is sadly just another pork barreling option from our leaders. campaign funds and suddenly new legislation abounds. as there were a couple incidents that were highlighted, now this.as a society we are pushing to remove the HAVESand create the have-nots. unfortunatly the goverment see,s fit to further reduce the middfle class thru taxations, program .reductions. well folks remember at the polls. call your mpp.

[Bernie]

I would really like someone to please explain to me what Dalton McGuinty has to do with this.

This is a simple request, because I really don't know. Do you?

 

The legislation has to be made up and passed through the house.

Dalton doesn't need to pass it through as it is written....does he?

[Muskieman]

Man, I hope this doesn't pass.

 

I use 200+ Lbs just while BBQing in the summer and about another 100

during the winter.

And 120+ Lbs/season in the Camper.

 

Gonna be on the Beer budget!! I'll have to resort to Minute Steak vs T-Bones and a bag of chips vs baked potatoes.

 

They might be safety conscious but being safe doesn't mean that it has to cost more $.

 

Randy

[corvette1]

if you are close come across the border 8.00 bucks for a 20lb

 

 

[dave524]

Where I worked we had propane towmotors, heavy rubber gloves, face shields, grounding straps etc., go to some filling stations for the BBQ and a 16 year old girl is filling with bare hands in jeans and a T shirt

[skeeter]

DAMN IF YOU SAID SHE WAS 20 I WOULD HAVE ASKED FOR THE ADDRESS !!!!!!!!!

[Fish4Eyes]

Thank goodness my Weber bbq is natural gas . Although, it is going to suck big time for camping thats for sure.

[Handlebarz]

The problem I have with it is that the mom and pop shops that have been filling BBQ tanks for years will be out of business like Bass Haven here in Mitchell's bay they just took there tank out and from what Dennis said on his site they had been filling tanks for 40 years with no problems. I agree with the big supply stations needing to be away from residential areas but I would not be afraid to have a BBQ tank filling station next door to me.

[Cookslav]

Propane has been getting filled into tanks safely the old way for a VERY long time....

Heck is a filling station any more dangerous then my 10year old BBQ?

Geeze....

 

The chances of an "incident" are 10x more likely to happen at a poorly maintained residental appliance then a proffessional business

Give yer heads a shake....

A couple of recent incidents might warrant some public awareness and education but to turn the operation upside down is ridiculous.

If they want to impose some new manditory rules, and saftey checks I think its great.

But not for the ridiculous costs presented.

Its yet another Fiberal money grab gaurenteed....just like the all the tax increases he promised not to do.

 

Its not rocket science here folks....

Impose the rules, and make the distributor liable in their license to sell...end of story.

That should not cost $25K

 

This is just another attempt to bank roll some cash and look good in the public eye with "safety concerns"

But nice try....

I guess the Fib's gotta find some way to cover their tracks...can't wait to hear the Financial mess we're in come election time.

Edited October 28, 2010 by Cookslav

[ch312]

Is there anything that premier Dad does not want to screw up in this province before we boot his out of office.

 

mcsquinty, mcguilty, and the list goes on...

 

WAKE UP AND SMELL THE DAMN COFFEE PEOPLE!!!

 

vote for anyone besides the LIEberals

 

 

like previously mentioned, we have been using the same method to fill tanks for eons. something bad happens in craphole toronto and now the rest of us are gonna have to pay for it.

 

current propane tank filling methods are safe or we would have waaaay more accidents. i'd bet my bottom dollar that its stupid people causing these accidents and its not the actual procedure itself. like usual, idiots ruin it for everyone else.

 

just another case of the guvment trying to protect us from ourselves.

[BUSTER]

NOT LOCKED YET?

[ch312]

 

Its yet another Fiberal money grab gaurenteed....just like the all the tax increases he promised not to do.

 

 

 

it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out mcdoofus is bad news, yet people STILL think he is somehow helping us??? :wallbash:

[HTHM]

I just wish that I could change the "hot topic" flame to an explosion icon....be most appropro for this topic.

I agaree that is something that needs a sober second look, and not a, (by our perception), knee jerk reaction.