Funeral Arrangements for Lake Nipissing are being made.

[Billy Bob]

Everyone needs to live under the same rules or we always will be divided.

[doubleheader]

Everyone needs to live under the same rules or we always will be divided.

 

I don't think this will ever happen but I do agree BB. Back to the issue though, perhaps this will go the other way, perhaps this will result in additional stocking and a better fishery than we have today. Certainly if there is no sustainable fishery there is no industry, so I tend to think this may very well result in an improved fishery.

 

A good portion of my home waters is on Seneca Nations land. We need to buy their license to fish, no problem there, and now they are taking the initiative to develop their own walleye stocking program, complete with hatchery. That's pretty sound forward thinking and everyone wins.

Edited August 4, 2010 by doubleheader

[Billy Bob]

 

A good portion of my home waters is on Seneca Nations land. We need to buy their license to fish, no problem there, and now they are taking the initiative to develop their own walleye stocking program, complete with hatchery. That's pretty sound forward thinking and everyone wins.

 

I have a friend who is watching this development VERY close as the Seneca's don't have a good history on these things and the money is coming from the Feds. Time will tell.

[TC1OZ]

No not directed at anyone in particular. Just quoting the "$2 fish" for effect. I don't know the particular situation either, but I do know a thing or two about people from some parts of Canada, such as country folk or east coasters that have a hate-on for natives, and that clouds judgement. Not pointing any fingers and saying that is what happened here, but I think it can easily happen and we get into an "us vs them" mentality. All I can say to that is that they lived here for thousands of years and there was still fish when we got here. In the last maybe 100 years, we have managed to screw up just about everything.

 

And my original point was that taken at face value, the article is a positive one, and the plant should have a positive effect on the fishery, all things being equal.

 

Did they have gas motors and fish finders? I'll just stop now.

[BUSTER]

Some people here are seriously deluded and missing the point.

[bigfish1965]

I have to hope that the First Nations people see that a sustainable fishery is in their best interest. Seeing an investment like this, helps me continue that belief. They wouldn't bother doing this if their plan was to slash and burn the population.

Our non-native commercial fishers do not exactly have a sterling record. Lets hope that the Natives see this as a chance to shed some of the bad PR and continue diligent enforcement.

[Headhunter]

"Hope" relies on the good will of others. I don't see that here. What I see are a group of people who have been frustrated, trying to develop an even larger market for their wares. They have not been able to sell their fish to just anyone in the past as their processing systems was inadequate with regard to provincial standards. The opening of this plant, just opened up an entirely new market for "their" fish.

Seems to me that then have just been given a green light to catch and process as many fish as they can sell, which historically they couldn't do.

I've seen the look on locals faces as they "hope" that their lake will return to its glory days... hope is quickly diminishing.

HH

[John the Fisherman]

Did they have gas motors and fish finders? I'll just stop now.

 

 

What does that have to do with anything? I just bought myself a bow, so does that mean I am now legitimate to go moose hunting. I guess so, as long as I leave my truck and ATV at home. Maybe I should throw out this computer, paddle down to your place to give you this message.

[Headhunter]

Hey John,

Be careful if you do head down in your canoe... water levels are down and I wouldn't want you to bottom out on a rock!

(Just a little bad humour for yah!)

HH

[John the Fisherman]

Well at least I don't have to worry about taking the bottom end off my I.O. Oh yeh! I guess I should get rid of that too.

[GBW]

Um Randy, you fix that hole yet?

[blarg]

What does that have to do with anything? I just bought myself a bow, so does that mean I am now legitimate to go moose hunting. I guess so, as long as I leave my truck and ATV at home. Maybe I should throw out this computer, paddle down to your place to give you this message.

 

 

Ok, I was trying to stay out of this but some of you don't have a clue. When all of these treaties were signed the natural world was looked at as mostly inexhaustible that is why these same treaties should not be used today. Also another poster mentioned that some groups seemingly have a hate on for natives, well I have a hate on for citiots and their children who have been indoctrinated into the left wing group think that tells over and over of the noble savage and the keepers of the earth Bull, it is paternalistic crap. They are no different than we are, they are just as likely to abuse the resource and since their taxes don't pay to maintain our resources they may be even less likely to protect it than we are. Take off your liberal colored glasses for god sakes, join us in the real world.

 

I have told this story here before, but in Nova Scotia, after they won the right to net the salmon rivers, the river nearest to my home is only a few minutes form the nearest reserve, instead of netting the river they continually broke into a science station on the river that was tracking fish numbers as a part of a stocking program. The fish were trapped in the ladder and were easily netted. It took months of complaints before anything was done, eventually a number of arrests were made, though I doubt they were ever prosecuted, that used to be a beautiful area, it is now a native booze can garbage dump. Few people go there to fish anymore, but then there really aren't any fish now.

 

I hope it goes better here, but for those of us that have been paying attention the science behind the harvest on Nippising is shaky at best, must be the racism, after all the biologist that is most responsible for the management of the lake is now on the band payroll, no conflict of interest there, nope.

[misfish]

Randy,you have bad aim,you missed the 2x4.

 

 

Everytime this stuff comes up,it brings no good.IMO.

 

BB said it best I believe,,,,,,

 

Everyone needs to live under the same rules or we always will be divided.

[John the Fisherman]

Blarg, No sane gov't would just throw Treaties out the window. Nations are built and develop under treaties. Should the USA and NATO toss nuclear arms treaties out the window? What about the treaties that ended the world wars? By disregarding treaties regardless of how old they may be, it would make, lets say Canada for instance a country that has no honour or respect in the eyes of the world. Also, I think you are getting Treaty Rights and Aboriginal Rights mixed up. Every treaty has specific points based on geography and area. Aboriginal rights are enshrined under the constitution of Canada.

 

 

JTF

[torco]

Ok, I was trying to stay out of this but some of you don't have a clue. When all of these treaties were signed the natural world was looked at as mostly inexhaustible that is why these same treaties should not be used today. Also another poster mentioned that some groups seemingly have a hate on for natives, well I have a hate on for citiots and their children who have been indoctrinated into the left wing group think that tells over and over of the noble savage and the keepers of the earth Bull, it is paternalistic crap. They are no different than we are, they are just as likely to abuse the resource and since their taxes don't pay to maintain our resources they may be even less likely to protect it than we are. Take off your liberal colored glasses for god sakes, join us in the real world.

 

I have told this story here before, but in Nova Scotia, after they won the right to net the salmon rivers, the river nearest to my home is only a few minutes form the nearest reserve, instead of netting the river they continually broke into a science station on the river that was tracking fish numbers as a part of a stocking program. The fish were trapped in the ladder and were easily netted. It took months of complaints before anything was done, eventually a number of arrests were made, though I doubt they were ever prosecuted, that used to be a beautiful area, it is now a native booze can garbage dump. Few people go there to fish anymore, but then there really aren't any fish now.

 

I hope it goes better here, but for those of us that have been paying attention the science behind the harvest on Nippising is shaky at best, must be the racism, after all the biologist that is most responsible for the management of the lake is now on the band payroll, no conflict of interest there, nope.

 

 

I don't want to wade into an issue I have very little knowledge of, so I won't. But I will politely point out that I think you proved someone's earlier point about hate clouding people's arguments and judgments. I don't see an emoticon for headshaking....

[Gerritt]

While I will remove myself from the race debate... as it will never be won by either side.. Be it native, black, asian, purple or green...

 

I fail to see how increased capacity is a good thing for Nipissing.. The lake is already a version of it's former self. The slot was introduced to supposedly help Nipissing fish populations.. but what if a certain group did not have to follow the same rules the rest of us have to abide by...

 

I can understand why the majority would be upset..

 

We have to put back prized table fare... only to have another group net them for profits.

 

what about our need to provide "sustenance" to our families?

 

and when did "sustenance" include private for profit corporations by one group/race of Canadians?

 

I can see why people have issue with it..

 

However if the roles were reversed, would we do the same... in the name of the all mighty dollar...

 

My gut tells me we would.

 

Blame the agency that allowed it to happen.. not the people taking advantage of the rules..

 

G

[jediangler]

Maybe some good deals on Lodges and cottage resorts on the Nip in the future.

[Billy Bob]

Maybe some good deals on Lodges and cottage resorts on the Nip in the future.

Yes, I can see the adds now.....

 

WATER SKI AND JET BIKE COTTAGES

 

Come to Lake Nipissing to Water Ski and Jet Bike around without being bother by fishermen as they no longer fish the Big Nip because all the walleyes/pickerel are now gone....

[siwash]

Wow, with all due respect, is it worth getting that angry?

 

Life is short, my friend

[Fisherman]

Wow, with all due respect, is it worth getting that angry?

 

Life is short, my friend

 

Is it not better to be angry and try and save something, than lay down without a word and watch something go to hell. Share the resource..equally.

[anonymous]

I'd be interested to hear of any stories where our native brothers and sisters have started or contributed to remediating outdoor resources. As far as I am concerned they are a group who only take and do nothing to give back.

 

As for JTF and his talk about not cancelling treaties, I don't see anywhere in those treaties where gasoline, hydro or any other modern amenty is mentioned. If they want to live by the words of the treaties, take back everything we have given them, it's too late to cry about the land, they sold it, gave it up or we took it. Have them play a gaza or palestine if they want it back.

[Fish Farmer]

No fish left in Nipissing anyway, they've netted them all. That's why our yearly trip to Nipissing was canceled years ago. All we could catch was slot fish, we released them and at the end of the road were we stayed the natives were loading refers with all our released fish going to market.

Randy you should have used that punch on the guy who past this disaster

Edited August 5, 2010 by Fish Farmer

[swishmick]

Where's the science on this issue? Are the quota's "sustainable" as advertised, or not? Is anyone here familiar with quota methodology? Is there a publicly available MNR of Ontario guide for this? And is its defintion of sustainability laden with economic and cultural and heritage and political and social justice considerations?

 

IIRC, the FMP and FMP Backgrounder for FMZ 17 containing Rice Lake (referring to the RLTA thread a while back) cited studies from lakes other than Rice Lake to support the case for a dimunition in the "quality" of the size structure of Rice Lake sunfish. There were lots of long term stats from sampling Rice Lake itself that, to my eye, didn't suggest any real hurt in the sunfish population despite the longstanding unlimited take regulation. Additionally, the Plan noted the undesirable introduced species status for pumpkinseeds in most of that chain and a potential negative impact on juvenile walleye (I'll have to re-read the Plans to refresh my understanding). The case for a theat didn't seem all that solid to me, more of an err on the side of caution, precautionary principle in practice - not that there's too much wrong with that. And perhaps that's why it was presented coincidentally with a plan to promote the panfish fishery in the zone and manage it for trophies and higher quality accordingly. Nothing wrong with that: the RLTA was about dollars and a "new" fishery, including the ice fishing season, should've made them happy despite losing a few resource intensive American customers. Is the Nip's walleye fishery any clearer to scientists? And for that matter, does anyone have a link to a list of all Fisheries Management Plans for all zones in Ontario?

 

If the "science" describes a healthy fishery and sustainable harvesting by natives and non-natives, will everyone cool it?

 

Why is there so much of a cry for more enforcement and policing when the potential payoff from more science and monitoring is so much greater?

 

The impact of poaching has to be small potatoes compared to a lack of knowledge. And, on the economics side, the impact of the Native walleye fishery must pale in comparison to the non-Native spending. If the Native's new enterprise can contribute additional funding to science and research, which should eventually subdue the politics, what's the worry? The more valuable the fishery is for its stakeholders, the better it'll be managed, assuming that people are self-interested, of course. That's the one-rule-for-everybody that'll apply most soundly in this situation.

 

OT- Is a Native near monopoly on walleye distorting the market price? Relative to all of the other tasty stuff in the seafood section, walleye fillets are priced incredibly nonsensically. Anyone else notice this?

[Roy]

Swishmick, you're thinking outside the box. That's a good thing. Good post, thank you.

[Billy Bob]

Swishmick, you're thinking outside the box. That's a good thing. Good post, thank you.

 

OK, But it doesn't address why fish in the slot limit MUST be returned to lake for one group who uses a single fishing line and another group can scoup them up with a net and keep them.