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swishmick

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  1. Where's the science on this issue? Are the quota's "sustainable" as advertised, or not? Is anyone here familiar with quota methodology? Is there a publicly available MNR of Ontario guide for this? And is its defintion of sustainability laden with economic and cultural and heritage and political and social justice considerations? IIRC, the FMP and FMP Backgrounder for FMZ 17 containing Rice Lake (referring to the RLTA thread a while back) cited studies from lakes other than Rice Lake to support the case for a dimunition in the "quality" of the size structure of Rice Lake sunfish. There were lots of long term stats from sampling Rice Lake itself that, to my eye, didn't suggest any real hurt in the sunfish population despite the longstanding unlimited take regulation. Additionally, the Plan noted the undesirable introduced species status for pumpkinseeds in most of that chain and a potential negative impact on juvenile walleye (I'll have to re-read the Plans to refresh my understanding). The case for a theat didn't seem all that solid to me, more of an err on the side of caution, precautionary principle in practice - not that there's too much wrong with that. And perhaps that's why it was presented coincidentally with a plan to promote the panfish fishery in the zone and manage it for trophies and higher quality accordingly. Nothing wrong with that: the RLTA was about dollars and a "new" fishery, including the ice fishing season, should've made them happy despite losing a few resource intensive American customers. Is the Nip's walleye fishery any clearer to scientists? And for that matter, does anyone have a link to a list of all Fisheries Management Plans for all zones in Ontario? If the "science" describes a healthy fishery and sustainable harvesting by natives and non-natives, will everyone cool it? Why is there so much of a cry for more enforcement and policing when the potential payoff from more science and monitoring is so much greater? The impact of poaching has to be small potatoes compared to a lack of knowledge. And, on the economics side, the impact of the Native walleye fishery must pale in comparison to the non-Native spending. If the Native's new enterprise can contribute additional funding to science and research, which should eventually subdue the politics, what's the worry? The more valuable the fishery is for its stakeholders, the better it'll be managed, assuming that people are self-interested, of course. That's the one-rule-for-everybody that'll apply most soundly in this situation. OT- Is a Native near monopoly on walleye distorting the market price? Relative to all of the other tasty stuff in the seafood section, walleye fillets are priced incredibly nonsensically. Anyone else notice this?
  2. It's extremely doubtful that there's anything to worry about with respect to the state of Rice Lake's sunfish stocks when the OMNR is implementing an all year open season, engaging local government to improve access to the resource, promoting the fishery and harvest opportunities, and actively pursuing angler recruitment and education. You could say that this is OMNR-style plundering of a resource. It's taking something that the RLTA had to themselves for a while and trying to super-size it. Of course, they've stepped on a few toes so far. A temporary bump up to 500 for a couple years to ease the transition of existing businesses would be a kind gesture, especially as their (the OMNR) plan is all about selling the panfish resource on a much bigger scale than the RLTA ever had going, albeit to many more anglers than a few Americans. The RLTA should benefit from these plans, though it appears unlikely as, assuming that their fish limit focused points are made in good faith – and why wouldn't they be, really – most of their businesses seem narrowly catered to those who fish in the summer for part of a food budget. No insulation/winterizing to take advantage of the ice fishing season? – looks like these guys are just scraping by, and the area really needs some economic development. It's too bad the way this thing has panned out with the RLTA's image taking a beating over something that both sides are guilty of: trying to increase the exploitation of sunfish.
  3. Not an RLTA member, and no personal stake. As a citizen, I certainly care about how the MNR's decisions impact Ontarians and their businesses - doesn't almost everyone on this board?
  4. Another link with a lot of excellent info on this issue: www.mnr.gov.on.ca/264336.pdf From page 66: “In the late 1990s, concerns regarding the quality of the panfish (particularly bluegill) fishery in Rice Lake were raised. MNR initiated a review of panfish management, and attempted to work with local businesses and anglers to explore regulatory options to address concerns regarding the fishing quality. After research and extensive consultation, it was determined that there was public concern over the decline in both abundance and size of bluegill in Rice Lake, overexploitation and undervaluing of the resource. However, it was also identified that regulations were not required to sustain the stocks, but may be a useful tool to maintain fishing quality and marketability. No regulations were implemented as a result of this review. ” In “the late 90's” this issue came up and nothing was done about it for at least a decade. To go from “no limits” to 300 is a bit arbitrary, and I think that giving the extra 200, even temporarily, to ease the transition for some that are hurting is reasonable – these are sunfish and the MNR thought nothing of putting "no limit" on them for years and years. The MNR creates non-native trout and salmon opportunities for other groups at great cost; this costs nothing and yet they're getting screwed. There must be some who suffered from the cancellation of the spring bear hunt that can sympathize; giving the outfitters an adjustment period would probably have saved them a lot of money. OTOH, maybe that cancellation improved the quality, abundance and size structure of the bear population for the fall hunt. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A fair number of people are of the opinion that those who fish for meat are the most ethical. It could one day end up being the “sport's” savior. What's the alternative, to believe that they're here to waste everyone's time for the heck of it? Come here, get your association painted as a bunch of fools, and call it promotion!? RLTA didn't start the thread in the first place; if anything, they're probably grateful to have the chance defend themselves and offer their perspective. Kill a bear or deer or moose – what an “insane” amount of meat. Kill a 100 pound wolf – what an “insane” amount of rot. You can kill an unlimited number of Ontario mammals vermin, a veritable zoo of mammals - what an "insane" amount of killing. Why are sunfish so sacrosanct? Yes, and the RLTA isn't trying to curtail anyone's access or claim sole ownership. FWIW to the more cynical on this board, I'm not an RLTA member.
  5. The best information on Rice Lake and panfish regulations is at this link: http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/264321.pdf --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The irony is that the MNR's new sunfish regs were created partially to help tourism: "CHALLENGE #2: Maintain/Enhance quality of the sunfish fishery OBJECTIVE: To increase proportion of larger sunfish 180mm (~ 7”) or greater in existing bass and sunfish dominated communities to provide associated socioeconomic benefits including: • Tourism • Recreational • Aboriginal Male sunfish gain a reproductive advantage by growing large and out-competing smaller sunfish for nesting areas and breeding females. Larger males are also considered more effective nest defenders. The presence of large parental males results in increased prematuration body size of sunfish and maintains the quality size structure of the population. When large parental males are removed, smaller males become more successful spawners and as a result mature earlier. The end result is a shift in the population structure and a decreased abundance of large parental males. Sunfish in these populations may be abundant, but offer a low-quality fishery. "
  6. There isn't any oar action until the knife is long gone. The first shark hits and takes out forty pounds of meat. Santiago harpoons it, and it dies and sinks with the harpoon and all its rope. The knife is then lashed to an oar to make another weapon. Two hours later, more sharks come. His hands are in so much pain from a rope burn he can barely wield the homemade spear, but he manages to kill two more sharks. About a quarter of the meat is now gone. There is a lull (hard to really say how long) and the old man checks the lashing on the spear and wishes he had a stone to sharpen the knife point. Admittedly, he could've used this moment to hack up the fish, but would an exhausted, tired and dehydrated old fisherman in a rickety boat in shark infested waters with a "highway" sized blood trail in the water lean over the side to carve up his catch? The old man's thoughts indicate he might have considered this to be mutilating the fish, something which the sharks had already well started, and just the idea of that was too much for him to contemplate. He even starts to apologize to the fish for the mutilation. If he removes the knife from the spear and more sharks come, how does he defend the carcass? In any event, the pops was not a thinker, and probably not in his right mind: "What can I think of now? he thought. Nothing. I must think of nothing and wait for the next ones." A shovelnose shark comes along, is speared, and snaps off the knife in a death roll. His inventory at this point: a gaff, which he says will do no good, two oars, the tiller and a short club which turns out to be a sawed off oar handle. From here it's just more sharks and the old man using whatever wooden implements to club them off until he finally gives up. Goodbye meat.
  7. If it's C&R, why does a change in limit change your targeting? If they chop the spring out of the season, I don't think I'll ever target them; they are too elusive for my skills at any other time of the year, especially as I don't use a fishfinder or downrigger. Does any one know if, back in the 1980's, in addition to the licence, you had to buy lake trout tags to fish for them?
  8. Kind of like letting any foreign company with $20-billion "have at" our country's nickel and energy deposits.
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