tresspassing?

[dada2727]

So I was out crappie fishing with my soon to be 3 year old son, who by the way is also obsessed, and we were fishing in kind of a small bay full of docks that you commonly see in trailer parks and marinas. The owner told us that it was "man made" and we were tresspassing. I thought that as long as I wasn't tied to his docks or bumbing into them that I was okay, no?

 

There was absolutely nobody at the park, and he made my little guy bawl his eyes out when I told him we had to leave because the action was hot, so the guy was a total idiot. Even if it is tresspassing I'm pretty sure if I seen a dad and his little 3 year old fishing in late april just before dark I wouldn't tell them to leave.

 

I'm sure others have encountered this and was wondering how you guys dealt with it? I'm not big on confrontations, especially with my son, so I just left and asked him if he was happy that he made my son cry. Haha, throw a little guilt his way, why not?

Edited April 27, 2010 by Daryl Cameron

[John Bacon]

Generally speaking navigable waterways are public. There are some exceptions such as Long Point and the south end of Scugog. I doubt that he had the right to kick you out but wouldn't be 100% certain.

[DRIFTER_016]

So I was out crappie fishing with my soon to be 3 year old son, who by the way is also obsessed, and we were fishing in kind of a small bay full of docks that you commonly see in trailer parks and marinas. I'm assuming the owner told us that it was "man made" and we were tresspassing. I thought that as long as I wasn't tied to his docks or bumbing into them that I was okay, no?

 

There was absolutely nobody at the park, and he made my little guy bawl his eyes out when I told him we had to leave because the action was hot, so the guy was a total idiot. Even if it is tresspassing I'm pretty sure if I seen a dad and his little 3 year old fishing in late april just before dark I wouldn't tell them to leave.

 

I'm sure others have encountered this and was wondering how you guys dealt with it? I'm not big on confrontations, especially with my son, so I just left and asked him if he was happy that he made my son cry. Haha, throw a little guilt his way, why not?

 

I gather you were fishing from a boat, right?

If so you were not tresspassing. You would have been tresspassing if you had been on the shore or docks though (if it was private property).

If it happens again just pull out your cell phone and call the police right in front of him to complain about being harrassed while legally fishing. The only way people like this will learn is if they are instructed by a person in a position of power. If the police refuse to do anything dial up the MNR and lodge a complaint with them.

[Rattletrap2]

In my opinion, if you were fishing from a boat, then he had no right to ask you to leave. If you got out and were fishing from his shore or docks, that is a whole nuther story!

 

Like you said though, either way, i doubt a father and 3 year old son fishing public waters pose any serious security breach! LOL

[dada2727]

Yes I was fishing from my boat, and it was on pigeon lake. I'm not sure if I should post the name of the trailer park on here. I just want to be 100% sure that he was in the wrong, would look kind of silly calling police up and then I end up getting charged!

Edited April 27, 2010 by Daryl Cameron

[cram]

Yes I was fishing from my boat, and it was on pigeon lake. I'm not sure if I should post the name of the trailer park on here. I just want to be 100% sure that he was in the wrong, would look kind of silly calling police up and then I end up getting charged!

 

Why not post it? If he's in the right, he's right and someone from here is likely to know about the special rights they have.. If he's in the wrong, he's being a jerk and posting on here is a good way to get a bit of revenge (much better than having a confrontation in front of your 3 yr old).

[T Fisher]

So I was out crappie fishing with my soon to be 3 year old son, who by the way is also obsessed, and we were fishing in kind of a small bay full of docks that you commonly see in trailer parks and marinas. I'm assuming the owner told us that it was "man made" and we were tresspassing. I thought that as long as I wasn't tied to his docks or bumbing into them that I was okay, no?

 

There was absolutely nobody at the park, and he made my little guy bawl his eyes out when I told him we had to leave because the action was hot, so the guy was a total idiot. Even if it is tresspassing I'm pretty sure if I seen a dad and his little 3 year old fishing in late april just before dark I wouldn't tell them to leave.

 

I'm sure others have encountered this and was wondering how you guys dealt with it? I'm not big on confrontations, especially with my son, so I just left and asked him if he was happy that he made my son cry. Haha, throw a little guilt his way, why not?

 

 

 

That guy was a moron. I to had the same experiance with my son he was 18. We were fishing Sturgeon lake for Crappies when we apparently got to close to his dock. The owner came out of the cottage yelling at the top of his lungs for us to get out of there we were fishing in his back yard, his water. I told my son that we were in the right and to plug in his head phones turn up the sound. Confrontation you say, my son still tells the story he's now 21 Now thats a MORON.

[sirfish]

Very few have leasing rights to the water where the docks are.Usually its only big city marinas and they pay big bucks for it along with security.

You were 100% in the right.You did not stand on or touch his docks in any way.

I would make a point of returning with a few other friends in tow.

[bigfish1965]

As long as you are on the water you are free to do as you wish. I had the same argument with a few marinas. I was fishing prior to boats being placed and they told me to leave or they would call the police. I offered my phone...and then told him to look up the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act online while he was waiting for the police and see what it says about harassing anglers.

I waited almost an hour for the police to show, good thing the pike were biting. Him and i talked...the officer was aware of the law for waterways...he asked if I would leave to keep the peace...I said no...that I had a duty now to stay, if I left it was a loss to all anglers.

He said.."Okay, how about in a half hour you go then at least it looks like you left on your own and this idiot will leave me alone."

I agreed as long as he reminded the marina manager he did not own the water. We talked fishing for a bit..I think he was trying to make it look like we were having a serious discussion..lol.

 

 

Also in the event of a storm, you may tie to his docks.

[Terry]

you have the right to fish there, however in most cases the cops will not help you

 

I was fishing a marina on the BOQ. the owner told us to leave, I told him I had every right to be there..

cops showed I and after much arguing..bottom line cops said if I didn't leave immediately he would charge me..

I left..got all the paperwork to show I had the right, went to the cop shop got the cop there showed him and he said he didn't care one bit..'he said it's his job to diffuse a situation and he didn't care who was right or wrong...

 

you can't win

[brifishrgy]

sounds like a great spot to have a little tourney, invite everyone and then see how he likes it

[basketclam]

The way I understand it is that if he owned the bed of the lake there for whatever reason (for example, the shoreline had been dredged in the past to make the "marina" at the trailer park), then he has the right to keep people out of the water above what would be his land. It's the same way with man-made lakes - you can't float on the water above the land that is owned by someone else, otherwise you're trespassing. (e.g. old quarries that have been allowed to fill with water). I know of a small lake close to me that's been artificially flooded so is deeper than it once was. This ended up creating a back bay that is privately owned because the lot lines didn't move when the lake was flooded.

 

It's a moot point, though, because the guy is clearly a jerk. Anyone with a decent head on their shoulders wouldn't have wasted the energy to walk down to the dock to talk to you guys.

[bushart]

I know when I lived on a lake--I only owned to the "High water mark"---the shore was crown.

[Harrison]

I feel for you Daryl, sure puts a damper on the day. If I was with my daughter I would leave too. However, if I wasn't with her, different story.

 

I know of two areas on Pigeon you will try and be kicked out of, one is a trailer park and the other is a "residential area".

 

Sometimes it's not worth the headache of dealing with the police etc... however, sometimes it is. Terry nailed it, they normally just defuse the situation.

[Dave Bailey]

you have the right to fish there, however in most cases the cops will not help you

 

I was fishing a marina on the BOQ. the owner told us to leave, I told him I had every right to be there..

cops showed I and after much arguing..bottom line cops said if I didn't leave immediately he would charge me..

I left..got all the paperwork to show I had the right, went to the cop shop got the cop there showed him and he said he didn't care one bit..'he said it's his job to diffuse a situation and he didn't care who was right or wrong...

 

you can't win

 

There is such a charge as 'refusing to obey the directions of a police officer', or something of that nature, so my guess is that you could be legally right about being on the water and still be charged for not leaving. We need a lawyer and a cop in here, surely there must be at least one of each on this board.

[chessy]

been through this before while duck hunting ... you need to go the the mnr and get the Patton deed. it will tell who owns what .. the key word they look for is the word TOGETHER it however does cost a fee of 35 bucks. but for me 35 bucks was a moot point . i kept a copy of the deed in my pocket and when i was aproched again . i told the pr that if he kept bothering me i would have him charged with interfering with a lawful hunt ...

[jimmer]

Been seeing this a lot lately in the Kawarthas. There is one park on Chemong where the owner will basically threaten to jump in your boat and beat you if you don't leave his docks alone. A complete lunatic. Came up during a bass tourney last year. The docks probably take up a 1/2 acre of water.

This is the first I have heard of it on Pigeon, other that Victoria Estates. I would like to know the name of the park.

Maybe next time, take the opportunity to instruct your child about jerks and that you hope they will never become like the park owner. Make sure the person hears it.

I feel for you. It's so sad that our young ones get exposed to that crap.

[troutologist]

In my experience very few waterfront property owners have "water lots" from the MNR, this was an antiquated process that seems to have been changed.

 

There is the possiblity of this guy owning a water lot. That said, I don't believe he can keep you from being on the water, I understood that the owner owned the bottom and as such had rights there not the navigable waterway.

 

 

Either way, he's a goof for treating the situation as he did, perhaps a little decorum would go a long ways....I guess thats a good way to promote a business in the service sector

[bigfish1965]

There is such a charge as 'refusing to obey the directions of a police officer', or something of that nature, so my guess is that you could be legally right about being on the water and still be charged for not leaving. We need a lawyer and a cop in here, surely there must be at least one of each on this board.

 

The officer must make a 'lawful order'. He is not allowed to create new laws. only enforce existing ones. He couldn't tell you to drop your tackle in the lake then charge you for not doing it. What would the officer charge you with anyway?

[GBW]

This guy sounds a lot like "the tool of the day".

[DanD]

Now I’m not condoning anyone, going off the end of their stick and chasing people away like a mad man; there are better ways of handling things; like asking politely to leave and explaining why.

Maybe I should start by asking everyone take a couple of minutes and have a look at the land or dock owner’s side of this.

The only example I have; that can maybe explain some of their attitude towards fishing their docks; is the damage and or the injuries they have occurred by allowing fishing to happen that close.

My brother’s boat; while at dock, has had the top torn a number of times by someone’s wild casts; which lodged hooks into the canvas top. The boat itself scratched and banged up against by fishers trying to free a snag. My brother has been woken up in the morning while sleeping in the cuddy of his boat, by a fisherman standing on the swim platform; trying to release their snagged line.

His grand kids on two separate occasions had to be taken into the hospital to have hooks removed; due to unseen hooks that were stuck to the dock; under the water line.

Now these people fishing at or around his dock; for the most part, were not there being idiots or uncaring. If there is/was an issue they; for the most part, would always apologized; but apologies don’t fix the damage or cure injuries they caused.

What would you do if this was your dock or boat and there was a fisher, trying to get the snagged hook out of it; just to break off the line and then leave?

Or every time that your kids wanted to go swimming off the dock; you have to go check and hopefully find the hooks stuck in the wood frame or the ladder?

All I’m saying is that yea maybe we have the right to fish there but is it the right thing to do?

No I’m not a dock owner; I fish out of my 16 foot tinny and I tow everywhere; but I have seen the results of allowing strangers to close to your stuff.

I don’t think anyone here that has fished docks can honestly say that they’ve never been snagged and had to break off.

I also think fishing docks from your boat; regardless of how good the fishing might be; is the same as dropping anchor, right beside the only other boat on the lake; give everybody their space.

Ok guys let me have it; I know I’m on the wrong side of this thread; but wouldn’t you be a little concerned if it was your dock, boat or family?

 

 

Dan.

[cram]

Now I’m not condoning anyone, going off the end of their stick and chasing people away like a mad man; there are better ways of handling things; like asking politely to leave and explaining why.

Maybe I should start by asking everyone take a couple of minutes and have a look at the land or dock owner’s side of this.

The only example I have; that can maybe explain some of their attitude towards fishing their docks; is the damage and or the injuries they have occurred by allowing fishing to happen that close.

My brother’s boat; while at dock, has had the top torn a number of times by someone’s wild casts; which lodged hooks into the canvas top. The boat itself scratched and banged up against by fishers trying to free a snag. My brother has been woken up in the morning while sleeping in the cuddy of his boat, by a fisherman standing on the swim platform; trying to release their snagged line.

His grand kids on two separate occasions had to be taken into the hospital to have hooks removed; due to unseen hooks that were stuck to the dock; under the water line.

Now these people fishing at or around his dock; for the most part, were not there being idiots or uncaring. If there is/was an issue they; for the most part, would always apologized; but apologies don’t fix the damage or cure injuries they caused.

What would you do if this was your dock or boat and there was a fisher, trying to get the snagged hook out of it; just to break off the line and then leave?

Or every time that your kids wanted to go swimming off the dock; you have to go check and hopefully find the hooks stuck in the wood frame or the ladder?

All I’m saying is that yea maybe we have the right to fish there but is it the right thing to do?

No I’m not a dock owner; I fish out of my 16 foot tinny and I tow everywhere; but I have seen the results of allowing strangers to close to your stuff.

I don’t think anyone here that has fished docks can honestly say that they’ve never been snagged and had to break off.

I also think fishing docks from your boat; regardless of how good the fishing might be; is the same as dropping anchor, right beside the only other boat on the lake; give everybody their space.

Ok guys let me have it; I know I’m on the wrong side of this thread; but wouldn’t you be a little concerned if it was your dock, boat or family?

 

 

Dan.

 

I completely agree about fishing off docks. To me it is rude. Legally in the right, but a bit rude nonetheless. The exception is on rivers and constrained waterways where you're fishing off of docks regardless of where you are.

 

Also agree that its no excuse for the guy to fly off the handle, especially with a young kid in the boat. That is ridiculous.

[Jer]

Now I’m not condoning anyone, going off the end of their stick and chasing people away like a mad man; there are better ways of handling things; like asking politely to leave and explaining why.

Maybe I should start by asking everyone take a couple of minutes and have a look at the land or dock owner’s side of this.

The only example I have; that can maybe explain some of their attitude towards fishing their docks; is the damage and or the injuries they have occurred by allowing fishing to happen that close.

My brother’s boat; while at dock, has had the top torn a number of times by someone’s wild casts; which lodged hooks into the canvas top. The boat itself scratched and banged up against by fishers trying to free a snag. My brother has been woken up in the morning while sleeping in the cuddy of his boat, by a fisherman standing on the swim platform; trying to release their snagged line.

His grand kids on two separate occasions had to be taken into the hospital to have hooks removed; due to unseen hooks that were stuck to the dock; under the water line.

Now these people fishing at or around his dock; for the most part, were not there being idiots or uncaring. If there is/was an issue they; for the most part, would always apologized; but apologies don’t fix the damage or cure injuries they caused.

What would you do if this was your dock or boat and there was a fisher, trying to get the snagged hook out of it; just to break off the line and then leave?

Or every time that your kids wanted to go swimming off the dock; you have to go check and hopefully find the hooks stuck in the wood frame or the ladder?

All I’m saying is that yea maybe we have the right to fish there but is it the right thing to do?

No I’m not a dock owner; I fish out of my 16 foot tinny and I tow everywhere; but I have seen the results of allowing strangers to close to your stuff.

I don’t think anyone here that has fished docks can honestly say that they’ve never been snagged and had to break off.

I also think fishing docks from your boat; regardless of how good the fishing might be; is the same as dropping anchor, right beside the only other boat on the lake; give everybody their space.

Ok guys let me have it; I know I’m on the wrong side of this thread; but wouldn’t you be a little concerned if it was your dock, boat or family?

 

 

Dan.

 

 

 

One thing to remember...it's still only April...the marinas (especially at trailer parks) are for the most part, totally empty. There are no boats to damage right now.

[jimmer]

I wouldn't condone any angler damaging or destroying property and yes people should be aware of the dangers of leaving hooks around where there are swimmers. And by no means should a boater tie up or stand on someone's dock unless in an emergency. My biggest concern is that waterfront owners are beginning to have the attitude that they own the lake and if this continues we will start seeing a lake simcoe attitude in the kawarthas with diminshing water access. Yes I own lakefront.

It is a privileage to put a dock in the lake, not a right by the landowner. Next thing you know the Gov will want to tax the docks we have in the lake (they did try this once already)if we demand that it is a private area.

Can't people just speak respectfully to each other and work things out.

[DanD]

One thing to remember...it's still only April...the marinas (especially at trailer parks) are for the most part, totally empty. There are no boats to damage right now.

 

True enough but there are still hooks to set in waiting for the summer's swimmers. My brother’s personal best at his dock was about an eighty pound grandchild.

The way he's been trying to handle this; is by explainning about the kids swimming and then try and point the fishers to another spot, where they may have some luck; his neighbor’s dock. LOL

 

 

Dan.

Edited April 27, 2010 by DanD