Mnr Cuts = This?

[misfish]

Did you ever consider one of them might be an Indian? They can fish 100 rods if they choose to. Even so, how are they ruining it for the rest of us? They would just be fined and lose each rod and lure until they pay their fine. They usually can get their equipment back the 1st time

 

JOKE

[Handlebarz]

Well said Robin I have not said alot mainly due to me trying to keep the blood pressuer down and I dont know how to cencor my self. Maybe I will see them tomorrow and get some more nice pics and yse I will ask what department they work for. I also think that if you are out doing research or have special privlege to use 8 rods then you should be using something to idenify this so that others dont get so mad over it.

 

Next year we are suposed to be getting two rods on LSC then they would only be over by 4 rods does that make it any better? NO

 

I just dont know how people can defend the picture I guess that one way would to say that the 5 rods that are bent 3 of them only have sinkers no hooks Robin you are right the pot is trying to get stirred

Edited November 24, 2006 by MrEh

[Beans]

Confront poachers ???

 

You never hear of the handgun problem that exists today ???

 

Not worth losing your life over...Reporting them is all that is necessary !

[misfish]

EH..............................Thats why I use the one word.

 

 

I have thoughts as well,but I know it would just get alot nastyier if I commented full out.

 

Confront poachers ???

 

You never hear of the handgun problem that exists today ???

 

Not worth losing your life over...Reporting them is all that is necessary !

 

Mr.Beans

 

I have had my fill of confronting.Mostly those around here with thier white buckets full of over limits.

 

It,s Bull, and we all know it. If the goverment dosen,t see this,well ,I guess were all SCREWED. Well, not all of us.

[danc]

The thing is they could be undercover or indians

 

So are we not to report any possible poachers because they just might be status?

 

 

If they are, they'll have a chance to prove that and if successful, they'll be on their merry way. They should also be thankful that people like most of us will defend our resources passionately. After all, they seem to enjoy fishing very much and I'm sure that they want the resources defended too.

[Squid]

If I had special status or worked for the government or a special permit, I would most definitley post it on the boat or use a flag or some signal that I was permitted to break the law. As mentioned before, these guys were avoiding the camera so that their reg numbers could not be photoed. These two are not the only ones that were breaking the law. There were two different charter boats that were out there with 10 rods out. We counted five in one boat and 3 in another. And no, there was no where to go down into the cabin persay. Gavin, I do not understand how you can defend this. Or even play the devils advocate on this.

 

My buddy and I were convinced that the guys in one boat heard us because as soon as we said something, these guys started hauling rods in. HMMMMM I wonder if they heard us???

 

Anyways I have said way more than my two cents on this. Next time I am out there I will call the OPP if I see anyone breaking the law. I am sure that one of the officers will call a Co buddy of his to get out there and nail the poachers. Anyone who defends these morons, whichever board they belong to, sounds like someone who may just be inclined to practice this type of angling given the chance.

[Marc Thorpe]

Squid most disgusting thing is it is prevelent and even conservation organizations turn a blind eye to members who are known to practice such angling ethics

Start with Pictures,we should finish with Names

Some conservationist will even tell ya how to do it

 

As you well know Conservation was applied when they accepted 2 rods for St Clair,we know who to thank for that!

Huge die off (several years) + Years of illegal Multiple rods + New 2 rod Reg for self gain = Disater and loss of the true nature of sportfishing

Conservation of sport angling at its best

 

That why the Law should be 1 rod per angler across the boar no matter where or the species

 

Your right about one thing

 

"anyone who defends these morons may just be inclined to practice this type of angling given the chance."

 

Ya dont have to look very far

 

The world is an un-even place and society has lost its fundamental values in the respect of sportfishing

 

They will only be happy when they have ruined it all once and for all

Edited November 25, 2006 by marc thorpe

[Gman]

I am confident if most of you were guides for fish on water where people catch & keep to eat you would be singing a different song.

 

Here's why - charter captains like that many rods, quicker limit, quicker back to port = reduced fuel expense = more profit per trip. And we've all heard this one before - a happy customer is a satisfied customer which is a return customer right We all love return customers as it brings in more money right

 

Next I suppose someone's gonna say there's no money in guiding!

 

Gman

Edited November 25, 2006 by Gman

[Guest gbfisher]

I am amazed at how some THINK that they know the way things are and how confused and misguided some can be about how regs and laws regarding such issues are set up.

[bigfish1965]

I am confident if most of you were guides for fish on water where people catch & keep to eat you would be singing a different song.

 

Here's why - charter captains like that many rods, quicker limit, quicker back to port = reduced fuel expense = more profit per trip. And we've all heard this one before - a happy customer is a satisfied customer which is a return customer right We all love return customers as it brings in more money right

 

Next I suppose someone's gonna say there's no money in guiding!

 

Gman

In the post prior to yours, one of the most prolific guides refutes that.

Guides are defacto ambassadors to the sport since they are often the first contact and therefore first impression of sportfishing that many people get. Guides are even MORESO ethically bound to uphold not only the law, but sound principals in conservation. It is not only a matter of honour, but of survival. By guides encouraging legal and ethical sportfishing, they ensure the long-term health of populations and therefore their businesses.

We must stop treating fishing like a right and more like a privilege.

[Gman]

I have fished with charter boat captains and if they had their way they would prefer to run 3 rods per angler just like in Michigan.

 

How do you suppose we got to 2 rods on the Great Lakes?

 

Why is it okay then when a guide runs a rod for himself when he's actually not fishing?

I get it - it's okay then for a customer to BUY a second rod which is essentially what he's doing.

So if I get this straight - it's okay when you're getting paid for it and the money is going in your pocket!

We all know the reason the guide throws out his rod(s) is to increase the odds of hook up so their customer can catch more fish, catching more fish means figuring out the pattern quicker resulting in a happier customer hopefully to generate repear business.

I've yet to see a guide take a rod and start fighting a fish when he's got customers.

 

Let me ask this - how many of you exceed the speed limit? Is the speed limit not a law?

 

Gman

Edited November 25, 2006 by Gman

[Roy]

I think we're getting away from the reason this thread was born. We have a couple of guys in a boat running multi rods. This is illegal. We tend to bugger and complain when we see or hear about poachers. This thread is here not NECESSARILY to stomp on these two individuals but rather to send a message to others who might be entertaining thoughts of trying the same thing. We want them to know that they are being watched.

 

Charter captains/ catch and keep...blah, blah, blah has nothing to do with this.

[danc]

 

 

Charter captains/ catch and keep...blah, blah, blah has nothing to do with this.

 

 

An excellent point Roy. I don't see what speeding in your vehicle has to do with this either. Most us us will defend our fisheries and will abide by the rules. The rest of us won't, I guess...

[Ron]

Gavin, say what you will, I for one, dislike the abuse some people do to the fishing regs. I guess we all know where you stand with your code of ethics.

 

Sure, most guides will run the legal amount of rods. Then again, if there were 4 people in the boat and you had 8 rods out, on certain lakes that is legal. Where I took this photo, you are only entitled to one rod per person, not 4. No, they were not doing a study, no they were not working for the MNR and no they were not native. The one person in the yellow Rain gear, turned his face once he saw me lift my camera up to take a photo.

 

As simple as it is to understand the regs, perhaps you should read up on them. You would see it is illegal to run more than one line per person.

 

And wherever you figure speeding fits in this thread, yes you're right, so is marijuana, crack, rape and theft.

 

I don't really understand what you are trying to accomplish on this thread? Is there a reason why you are defending these guys? Do you know them? Are they friends of yours?

Edited November 26, 2006 by Ron

[steve_paul]

From OFC News on Lake Simcoe Muskie:

 

Lake Simcoe was once teeming with muskie, enough to support a commercial fishery into the late 19th century, Mr. Borwick said. Sport fishing continued into the 1930s, but, by then, the population was declining drastically.

 

The combination of overfishing, poaching and habitat loss spelled the end for the Simcoe muskie.

 

Could this happen to a world class fishery such as Lake St. Clair?? 2 guys running 5, 6, 7 or 8 lines times how many boats per year may hasten its demise similar to Lake Simcoe in the 1930's.

 

I don't know about the percentages but are muskie not a more fragile fish in terms of post release survival? Won't more lines per angler, more hookups, more fish being caught and fighting themselves to death lead to a more quickly declining population??

 

Just my thoughts on this.

[Squid]

I think that it may be time to put this thread to bed :

[Marc Thorpe]

Steve_Paul,same nearly happened to St Clair,Its Mass and size saved it!

With the collective negative impact the resource is presently facing,they stand a very good chance it may re-experience it demise once again

Don't kid yourself,its been peaked for 10 years,was not like that before.All through the 70's through to early 90's St Clair was a declined resource same as the St Lawrence 1000 island region

For the exact same reasons you stated in your response these resources suffered their demise at the hands of greed and self gain

 

Roy I agree this topic has slid,unfortunately the violators were done on a notoriously known area for such violations were and are common

conservation and the best interest of the resource is Supposed to Be Present

 

Gman the regs were changed for one reason and intention in mind.....Charter captains

Regs and laws are supposed to be implemented with the interest of all not Commercial interest or self gain interest

The OMNR droped the ball on the best interest of the resource

Conservation failed at the hands of a lack of leadership!

 

Gman For you information,Ya Don't make money guiding,You Earn A Living

Gman we Don't all see the business as you think we do,You rape a resource,ya cant take your money to the grave with you and once your resource is gone,so is your way of earning a living

 

Ron not point fingers,I think you might want to look in the closet and I suggest clean house a little

Not you

 

Rick,you are correct in your reply,those that Don't worship the Money God,think of this way of life For Ever

 

Interesting discussions and views,its fine folks see it on both sides,thats fine

 

Maybe my thinking is extreme on the conservation side of it,bottom line is the seasonal or weekend angler should not have to bow down the commercial interest and face potential demise of any resource because commercial interests are placed forth in regulating angling laws

 

Anyawys ,I'd be surprised if OMNR or the CO's did anything after the fact

If They had viewed the regs in best interest of the resource and a strong CO presence while and before adopting a violators law,matters would not be as they are and are only gonna get worse

 

Biggest prob is Lack of Funds Perps and Violators know it and will abuse of it

They should do airial surveillance and then do a massive swoop on illegal rods and seize all equipements for a season,Currently the law has no bite,whats a 50$ or 80$ fine

 

Ya Don't know what ya got till its gone

They paved paradise to put up a parking lot

Edited November 26, 2006 by marc thorpe

[cisco]

I bet the buggars got skunked anyways! Let's all pray to the musky Gods that their Karma stinks like a burning chicken pen from here on in! Put'er to rest now folks!

Everybody complaining about these bums here won't get stuff done. But a small prayer to the musky Gods... and , well, Who knows! I say we do it!

 

I'll start with... I pray those guys have to smell carp farts while they're at dinner next time!

[Gman]

I don't see what speeding in your vehicle has to do with this either

 

If you guys can't and don't see this you're worse off than originally thought!

 

Like previously mentioned a law is a law whether it be on the road or on the water. Why is okay then for most if not all of you to speed? Are you breaking the law - you sure are.

So why is it okay to do that then and not run rods in excess of the allowed limit?

 

My point is - a law is a law and there's no way around that. But you tend to break and bend them when it's convenient to you or for self gain.

 

Gman out

Edited November 26, 2006 by Gman

[camillj]

Not to stir the pot even further .. but I would be totally in support of a 2 rod limit - everywhere.

 

I certainly dont advocate breaking the law ... but I do advocate changing the law. The possession limits are what matter not the number of rods.

 

As I have mentioned in other 'limit' related questions ... much of the research the MNR does is on ANGLER SUCCESS ... and all you have to do is read their stocking/budgeting reports to find out they spend more time and money where angler interest/success is the highest.

[Marc Thorpe]

Not to stir the pot even further .. but I would be totally in support of a 2 rod limit - everywhere.

 

I certainly dont advocate breaking the law ... but I do advocate changing the law. The possession limits are what matter not the number of rods.

 

As I have mentioned in other 'limit' related questions ... much of the research the MNR does is on ANGLER SUCCESS ... and all you have to do is read their stocking/budgeting reports to find out they spend more time and money where angler interest/success is the highest.

 

camillj,no probs with your view

 

Prob is the Data is so Skewed and truelly miss-represents whats going on

I was involved in logs and believed in them,unfortunatly they are so skewed they are wortless because they only represent the good days and not whats truelly going on

 

If OMNR relies on this Data,They are comminting Strategic Management mistakes

Dont kid yourself,they are not as much in the field as you think or wish they were,actually I am surprised if they are really in the know with what is going other than a few select areas or species

 

 

Gman,maybe your not understanding

If you speed you get a ticket,you slow down generally

You pay the piper

 

If you troll multiple rods,handle fish poorly (Out of water time,the Plunge,bogas in the mouth,drag you fish in a moving boat),disease,angling pressure the complete angling community suffers ,so do fish populations

 

Maybe if they replace Atlantics for Chinooks,you will see the 2 rod disapear

Edited November 26, 2006 by marc thorpe

[Terry]

first, if you see someone with more rods or fish then allowed, report them.....the MNR can decide if they are breaking the law...or post here with picture and maybe we can embarrass them into being lawful..

 

 

as as for more rods everywhere...there is a mortality rate for released fish...

 

some say 20% some say 50%

 

but the point is, you can be killing way over your limit by releasing them and if you have extra rods better fishermen, could do major damage and still be under their limit..

now if you want multiple rods and have the catch and release limit the same as the catch and keep limit...then it works

which would mean..if the limit is one, then as soon as you hook one fish you are done fishing..........those 5 extra rods could have your fishing day done in five minutes...but it would be fair

[danc]

This thread has been pinned for several days now and many good points have been made. It's obviously an important subject to all of us. It has served it's purpose and I think its time to let it run its course in the general discussion forum. Replies are still welcome.

[Guest Trophymuskie]

Those idiots should be crucified. They are not only poaching by using extra rods but they have 4 times their legal amount.

 

That's like going 4 times the speed limit if you want to compare it that way.

 

As for guides doing it for the money, come on we're at the bottom of pay scale. Barely make enough to help pay a few bills around the house. Most of us are doing it for the love of fishing and nothing more. Some of us are also giving back a heck of a lot to the fisheries. So it's a very few that are raping the fisheries for their personal gain like in every other business out there.

 

Now let's say these idiots come across a feeding school of muskies, anyone fishing St-Clair knows that they feed in bunches on most days out there, and all 8 rods ( maybe 6 or 4 but anything over 2 isn't good ) go off all at once. How many of those fish are they going to kill? The same can happen when they'll be running two rods next year, how does a guy fishing alone handle a double header?

 

I still don't understand why anyone would need to double the number of rods on a lake that puts out more muskies then anywhere else. Are they looking at getting 20 muskies a day instead of 10?

 

BTW for those that don't fish St-Clair, most guys out there are already running 2 lures per rod ( the legal amount of hooks is 4 per line ), so next year they will be running 4 lures per angler legally.

 

I just don't get it.

 

P.S. What makes you think that anyone using an extra amount of rods or poaching are going to be respecting their limits. I see this with the walleye guys out here, they never seem to be putting anything back and some even come out multiple times per day, maybe it's for multiple limits. I would be interested in seeing their freezers.

Edited November 26, 2006 by Trophymuskie

[fishergirl72]

I just had to reply to this.....that is a dang shame, and it gets me hot under the collar!