Surprise Run-in with the MNR

[Fishnwire]

I have a camp north of Sudbury that is a two hour drive down a bush road (you need a 4x4 with clearance) and the last 3.5 km are quad only. In the 6 years I've been going there, there has been only two times that people came in there to fish who weren't my guests. I have the only camp on that section of river. It's basically a private lake. I mention this not to make you Toronto guys jealous (well, maybe a little) but to illustrate the fact that for a CO, it's a pain to get to and the pickin's are pretty slim as far as anglers to ask for licenses.

 

A few days ago I'm relaxing at the camp's kitchen table at about 7 pm with a beer and whatever else...I hear a quad approaching so I step out onto the porch. It's a CO. My first thought was, "What the heck is this guy doing here?"

 

After asking how long I'd been there and if I'd done any fishing (I told him I had fished) he asked for my licence... but it was in the Jeep at the other end of the quad trail! He told me to bring it into the Sudbury MNR office in a few days. Cool. He also asked if I had kept any fish, which I told him I had not.

 

He asked if anyone else was there. My father-in-law's hunting partner Larry happened to be up, but he was out in the canoe, fishing by himself. I told him so. He said he would wait until he got back. I told him that he was over 65 anyway, so he wouldn't have a license to show him, but he wanted to talk to him anyway.

 

I figured he'd be there a while, so I said, "I guess I can't offer you a beer with you being on the job?"

 

"No," he chuckled. "But I'll take a water or pop." So I turn to the cooler, which is on the porch, and open it up. I noticed that he was right there making sure he got a good look at the inside of that cooler, obviously looking for fillets or whatever. The funny thing is that it had NOTHING in it besides beer and ice. I was leaving the next morning and had just finished dinner so I was completely out of food. I didn't have a thing in there for him. I found a can of warm diet coke in the pantry and he made due with that. Eventually Larry got back. Here's the part of the story where it gets a little sticky;

 

Larry had a little pack sac with his fishing stuff and cigars in. the CO asked to see inside it...no big deal. Then he asks Larry if he realizes his truck (parked at the other end of the quad trail) has expired plates. The CO even tells him he called it in to make sure the sticker hadn't just fallen off. It turns out Larry bought a new truck last year and doesn't want to drive it down that bush road. He lives in the last little town on the way out to my camp so he can get from his house to the start of the bush road and only has to drive on public roads for about 5 kms to do it. Old Larry figured the whole insurance/registration thing was too big an expense for a bush truck so he didn't bother.

 

The officer tells him, "Well I should call the cops and have you impounded, but I won't." He recommends Larry leaves his truck where its parked, get a ride back to town from someone else, have the insurance and registration taken care, come back with the sticker and papers and only then drive his truck back to town.

 

Larry explained that he was actually in the middle of selling that truck. He said he's going to take it home and leave it parked until it is sold.

 

"Well you can do what you want, " the CO told him, "but if I see you driving that truck anywhere, anytime I will detain you and call the regionals to deal with it."

 

Now I'm not making excuses for Larry. He should have had the paper needed for the truck. If I was the CO though, I might have told him to drive it straight home with a warning, and that after that, if he drove the truck that he'd be in trouble. Its just that he had to get the truck out of the bush, give him a break.

 

Besides that one example, the CO was quite laid back and easy to deal with. I've got nothing to hide so I'm just glad to see him doing his job. The fact of the matter it turned out I was unintentionally in violation of a regulation (I will omit the details) and he totally cut me slack on it. One thing that stands out in my mind is that he saw both our vehicles when he was coming in, had obviously called in our plates and knew a fair amount about us before he even got there. I realize now that there were a number of questions he asked me which he already knew the answer to. I think maybe he was trying to catch me in a lie, which would have been a pretty good sign I had something to hide or was doing something I shouldn't. I guess the lesson is that its always best to be forthcoming and truthful when dealing with these folks.

 

The only thing that I'm a little curious about is this; We're all aware that the resources and funding available to the MNR are not what they used to be and don't allow them to do everything they'd like to do, They are limited on what they can do by restrictions on their time and budget. This being true, is a CO, a truck and a quad best utilized spending an afternoon/evening checking in on a single camp? How many violations would he have to find and how many fines would he have to levy for that exercise to even come close to paying for itself? Perhaps potential violaters thinking that "the man" could show up at any time is the whole point.

 

Regardless, they are tasked with a difficult job and generally do the best they can.

 

Has anyone else run in the MNR (or the cops) somewhere or sometime that seemed like an unlikely place for them to be?

 

Sorry for the length of the post...I'm bored.

Edited September 24, 2009 by Fishnwire

[bushart]

I believe it's been stated on numerous occasions that the MNR reads this board.

 

Not sure if it was you or someone else up your way not long ago kidding how they have a camp back in the bush where the rules don't always get followed and the mnr never visits.

 

May be a connection or not

[JohnF]

It's more likely that those kinds of checks are done more for the preventative value. They expect you to tell folks, just like you're doing here, which is probably way beyond what he was even hoping for. Now how many people know the MNR folks are likely to take the notion to venture into the out of the way spots to check for compliance, and all those nervous types now know how thoroughly they check things out. He also scored a twofer by applying a little police type crime prevention.

 

Your incident has now probably had more lasting impact than the average speeder takedown on the 401.

 

JF

[Dara]

I remember that post. I'm way back and they never come and visit me...LOL

 

You never know when they are going to show up.

 

They know how to sneak up on you with a helicopter.

 

PS, put a rope between his truck and yours and you are towing him back. That makes it legal with no plates

[LucG]

Last season I knew of two guys who were ice fishing with more holes then allowed. They said when they seen what they though might be a CO coming closer, they quickly cliped their lines and pulled their tipups. Once the CO finally got there, he asked the typical questions, then went on about the numerous holes drilled. They denied using more then 4 holes, then the CO pulled out a magnet on a string and dropped it down one of the unused holes, sure enough he pulled up their lure with a live minnow. Issued them both a fine right there.

 

EDIT: I know what your thinking, and NO, it wasnt me! lol

Edited September 24, 2009 by LucG

[Dara]

Last season I knew of two guys who were ice fishing with more holes then allowed. They said when they seen what they though might be a CO coming closer, they quickly cliped their lines and pulled their tipups. Once the CO finally got there, he asked the typical questions, then went on about the numerous holes drilled. They denied using more then 4 holes, then the CO pulled out a magnet on a string and dropped it down one of the unused holes, sure enough he pulled up their lure with a live minnow. Issued them both a fine right there.

 

EDIT: I know what your thinking, and NO, it wasnt me! lol

 

 

Thats a new one. years ago I was fishing with a friend. it was the end of the day and we had changed spots for one last shot at it. Holes were already drilled at this spot. He put down 3 lines. i shook my head. A couple sleds were coming. I said...hey, thats a game warden. he said...no its not. When we saw the orange stripe on green my buddy grabbed his line and broke it as the ski covered the hole.

That warden was freaking. What are you doing with that line...what line? He calmed down after we mentioned some names he knew. It was close though.

[dave524]

Friend of mine was a CO, often if he suspected some one of poaching he would wait till garbage day and check for evidence there, not that they have to with their search powers, but it helped with the timing of a search of the home, he would know when to go in.

[Jack-of-all-fish]

Last season I knew of two guys who were ice fishing with more holes then allowed. They said when they seen what they though might be a CO coming closer, they quickly cliped their lines and pulled their tipups. Once the CO finally got there, he asked the typical questions, then went on about the numerous holes drilled. They denied using more then 4 holes, then the CO pulled out a magnet on a string and dropped it down one of the unused holes, sure enough he pulled up their lure with a live minnow. Issued them both a fine right there.

 

Very crafty. Sounds like that CO worked for the Ministry of Natural Resourcefulness!!

I got checked out last January while ice fishing on a remote lake a couple of hours nortwest of Sudbury. I sledded in about an hour off of the hiway with 2 old timers who belonged to a group that had a hunt camp on the lake. On the 2'nd morning we were there out of the blue comes a new Rev XP ridden by a CO. He checks us out & asks How the fishing is. We hadn't caught one bleepin fish to that point and when we told him that he proceeded to tell us that the lake was fished out 3 years previously when some sports columnist in Sudbury wrote about how great the lake was through the ice. That column apparently led to the lake being overrun with fishermen. My point is that he knew there were no fish, why bother spending his valuable time and resources to be on that lake at all.

 

[Dara]

Friend of mine was a CO, often if he suspected some one of poaching he would wait till garbage day and check for evidence there, not that they have to with their search powers, but it helped with the timing of a search of the home, he would know when to go in.

 

 

From what I understand, they need a warrant to enter your home. Your camp, no, but your home...yes.

The garbage would help him get the warrant

[POLLIWOGG]

If you were the CO and told him to drive it strait home and he ran into somebody on the way it would be like putting a drunk on a bicycle in downtown TO and waiting for it to hit the fan.

 

You were not fishing, he knows you have a license because he ran your name and wants you to bring it to Sudbury anyway,, wow how kool was that.

 

When you get pulled over do you say "no I'm not speeding but I was yesterday please punish me in whatever way you see fit."

[bigfish1965]

The CO, knowing the vehicle was not legal, had to say something to cover himself. Had you friend got into a collision on the way home, he could have been in trouble had he not said what he did.

[legacey]

A buddy of mine, owns a hunting camp north of Plevena....it's at the dead end of the lake and they're surrounded by Crown Land.

 

It's been in his family a long, long time...I think his grandfather or great grandfather claimed it and built the camp on a small piece of land..all legal.

 

To get there, you need 4 wheelers if coming by land and a lot of time to cut your way thru...by boat it's a 3.5 mile drive.

 

They pay a huge amount of property tax...almost as much as I do for my home in the "burbs" without any resources...and have to pay for a road licence to boot.

 

The CO's come in to check the trees, lot etc for violations....it's my understanding, and his families that they want them out of there but are grandfathered in so make sure everything is on the up and up.

 

A long shot but maybe this is one of the reasons the CO visited you?

 

IMHO, seems like although he let you off for the licence....he was a bit of a prick to your friend.

 

Cheers

[Dara]

They just don't seem to understand that they are working for us and not the King.

Compliance with the intent of the law should be what matters.

It seems to me that they are out to make money off of the laws and not out to protect the best interest of the resource and the people.

I don't expect any body to get away with illegal fishing or poaching, but come on. Like the post about 4 fish and 5 guys in a flyin camp being charged with unidentifiable fish. Sure, that is an infraction of a law, but, is it an infraction of the intent of the law?

 

Just the opinion I have formed over the years.

[cram]

I fish a lot...and have for almost 25 of the 35 yrs of my life. Have only run into COs twice, and both were on remote back lakes (and not the main lake that i fish on 95% of the time, which is also frequented by lots of other fishermen and fisherwomen).

 

I always wondered how it made sense to be at a remote back lake where they *might* run into one fishing party.....but either way, was glad to see them. I like that they're out checking licenses and stuff. Too many people i know fish without a license and without any regard for the rules. I hopet hey get caught one day.

[canadadude]

If you guys were back in the bush poaching fish or wildlife that one visit could be all the CO needs to make a whole month worth of fines. Poachers like to conduct there buisness in out of the way places, off the beaten track areas not out in the open in populated places. This is why CO's take the time to see whats going on in the bush, even in the previous posts I've read people seem to break the regs easier when they think there in an isolated area with nobody around. I think it's more important for the CO's to be checking people back in bush and they probably do alright in fines since as I stated, when some persons get isolated they feel it's easy to break the law!!

Edited September 24, 2009 by canadadude

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

CO's have no "special" search powers, none beyond what any other peace officer anyways.

 

Also, some people give flack to CO's for charges relating to what they see as "silly" infractions but what it all boils down to is that if you violate the law, only YOU are responsible if you get charged. I have all the respect in the world for CO's as it is a very difficult job.

[Dara]

CO's have no "special" search powers, none beyond what any other peace officer anyways.

 

Also, some people give flack to CO's for charges relating to what they see as "silly" infractions but what it all boils down to is that if you violate the law, only YOU are responsible if you get charged. I have all the respect in the world for CO's as it is a very difficult job.

 

 

What do you consider especially difficult about it?

[JFish]

There is not other way to look at it.

 

You break the law you may get fined/charged.

 

You follow the rules and you will have no problems.

 

JFish

[Dara]

There is not other way to look at it.

 

You break the law you may get fined/charged.

 

You follow the rules and you will have no problems.

 

JFish

 

 

You're right..thats the only way to look at it.

Edited September 24, 2009 by Dara

[CLofchik]

CO's have no "special" search powers, none beyond what any other peace officer anyways...

 

Yes they do, they can search any premises or vehicle without a warrant. Surprisingly for Ontario these broad & exceptional powers are rarely abused.

 

 

Oh Fishnwire, ever had anyone lately make an offer for your camp? Heh the only backwoods experience I have with CO's comes secondhand, seems someone I know who has a camp in one of my fav canoe tripping areas had a group of guys that wanted to buy the family camp and wouldn't take no for an answer. After they couldn't buy the camp they started making complaints about "abuses" going on there, just to start pressuring them to sell.

Edited September 24, 2009 by CLofchik

[TC1OZ]

Yes they do, they can search any premises or vehicle without a warrant. Surprisingly for Ontario these broad & exceptional powers are rarely abused.

 

If thats the case...then why doesn't CSIS get CO's to raid terror suspects homes. Then report no fishing violations but report all other none ministry violations to the authorities?

 

Its not as simple as you put it.

[acmarou]

They can do whatever they want when it smells like crime. I'm pretty sure a CO is trained the same way as any other cop.

[TC1OZ]

They can do whatever they want when it smells like crime. I'm pretty sure a CO is trained the same way as any other cop.

 

Smells like ignorance to me.

[Terry]

well they can't just search

 

they need probable cause and a clear sense of urgency, as in if they believe the fish will be flushed down the toilet with the coke, if they don't search immediately all will be lost.

other wise they must get a warrant

[irishfield]

Terry's got it down.. not like we haven't argued about this at least three times this year, on here!