New harmonized tax for Ontario

[Big Cliff]

Just heard on the news that our Premier wants to change things to a new harmonized tax. He said it would be good for us and stimulate the economy. Saddly everytime a politician tells me it will be good for me I know it means it is going to cost me a lot more and is going to raise the cost of buying a new home by an additional 5%. How is that supposed to stimulate the economy?

[Muskieman]

I'm kinda thinking the same thing....

 

What about from a retail perspective? I sell stuff, and knock off a tax for farmers and business owners, status Aboriginals ..... I forsee a Nightmare...!!

 

This isn't gonna be good...

 

 

RFS

[JeffBornFishin]

This has been attempted before...and guess what...a new Government everytime.

 

By the time I sell a customer a part GST has been paid to the Government three times.

 

PST on more items such as health care products will be a disaster.

 

Not a good motivation to get people to spend money.

[Terry]

it will cost us big time

 

when we buy things that you only pay gst..or only pst .guess what once they are one

,

same when you buy from a different province no saving pst.......

[Rizzo]

hmmm...right now people only pay us 5% GST when arranging for a funeral...sounds like Dalton is trying to weasel his way in. If its 8% more on top that can be a significant amount

[JohnF]

Just heard on the news that our Premier wants to change things to a new harmonized tax. He said it would be good for us and stimulate the economy. Saddly everytime a politician tells me it will be good for me I know it means it is going to cost me a lot more and is going to raise the cost of buying a new home by an additional 5%. How is that supposed to stimulate the economy?

 

Not only the cost of a new home, but also all the fees attendant to home buying (realtor fees, legal fees, home inspector fees, etc) that are subject to GST now. That's an increase of 8% across the board on all those fees that are not eligible for the new home GST rebate.

 

Ontario realtors are currently lobbying hard to have them consider the ramifications - just in case they hadn't already. It's one of those things that can slide by looking like a logical combination of two taxes to provide easier calculation and bookkeeping, but it has lots of expensive impact that isn't so obvious at first glance.

 

It's too bad we have to be so cynical about our politicians, but every time they try to sneak one of these by I remember why we're cynical.

 

JF

[JohnF]

I'm kinda thinking the same thing....

 

What about from a retail perspective? I sell stuff, and knock off a tax for farmers and business owners, status Aboriginals ..... I forsee a Nightmare...!!

 

This isn't gonna be good...

 

Might be a bonus for tax accountants. They'll be the only ones who will be able to wade through the quagmire of rebates and exemptions that this will create.

 

JF

[outllaw]

born free taxed to death. they head to the front of the class for stupidity

[Cookslav]

Maybe he'll realize its pissing people off just like his post election proposed heath care increases and he'll simple change his mind again...

Maybe he'll just abolish the taxes alltogether....

Of course he'll need to replace it with another one of his "premiums"

Dum

[Kerry]

What's this gonna do to the service industry?

Kerry

[Seve]

Bend .... over ... and get ready !

[Maverick]

increasing taxes does not stimulate the economy, cutting taxes does that is a simple fact of economics but Steve screwed it all up and cut taxes while the going was good. So with this increase in taxes he's only going to drive us deeper into a recession.

[DRIFTER_016]

Gee, I sure do miss paying all O them taxes since I moved.

[Dutch]

Here is a list of some of the more common things that will go up 8% (I added the bolding):

 

Newspapers;

Magazines under subscription;

Restaurant meals costing $4 or less including cups of coffee and tea;

Taxi, bus, airplane and train fares;

Gasoline, diesel fuel and propane;

Residential electricity, natural gas and firewood;

Campground site fees;

Home Internet services;

Certain residential Energy Star appliances;

Vitamins;

Gym and fitness memberships;

Bicycles (and related safety equipment) costing less than $1,000;

Accounting and legal services;

Certain financial services fees;

Construction labour including home building and renovation labour;

Dry cleaning and laundering services;

Car towing services;

Grass cutting and snow removal services; and

Real Christmas trees purchased in December

 

The Gov't is also sending everyone with a family income under $160,000 a $1000 cheque. This is a bribe - I hope everyone sees through it.

 

Liberals - out, next election. I am livid about this crap......

[BillM]

It hasn't been passed yet....

 

Anything you were only taxed PST on, you will now be charged the full 13%..

 

Bull if you ask me...

[theRJ]

HST as a Stimulus Plan = Terrible Idea

No need to check my math...I'm an engineering student LOL.

 

RJ

[timmeh]

I also agree that this is a bad idea. However according to the globe and mail there will be exemptions and some items will remain PST free. It hasn't been revealed exactly what those items are but i've read that some daily, common items will remain exempt (again not exactly sure what that will cover). Also apparently houses under 400,000 will remain PST free.

Edited March 26, 2009 by timmeh

[Cookslav]

Its so simple...

More Taxes mean less money in our pockets to spend in the economy.

The only thing that acheives is less money in the services sectors, and more layoffs....

But hey the government will be able to fund the infrastructure plans they have which creats jobs for a hand full of road crews, and people affiliated with such industry.

 

Doesn't do a dam thing for store owners, restaurants, shops, offices etc....

Its robbing Peter to pay Paul.

And we all know when things recover the tax Structure will remain the same.

When was Income tax instituted again...to pay for what?

[DRIFTER_016]

It's just McSquinty giving it to you up the

One of these days you will figure out that this bozo doesn't give a crap about anybody but himself.

Y'all keep voting him in so you have to deal with the consequences.

The twit has never uttered a true word in his life.

Remember his declarations such as "I will never allow building on the Oak Ridges Moraine" or how about this goodie "Healthcare will never be taxed" or the standby "I will not raise taxes" This putz will say anything to get into power. And yet he was re elected!!!

FOOL ME ONCE SHAME ON YOU, FOOLE ME TWICE SHAME ON ME!!!!!!

 

Rant Over

[JohnAB]

Sure am glad we do not have a PST out here. I always thot harmonizing the PST with the GST meant that you combined them together so you did not pay the PST on the GST amount or vice versa. In that sense it would be cheaper in the long run but I see the Lieberals there want to start charging the PST on stuff that they never charged it on before. How that is supposed to enhance the economy I guess greater minds than mine will figure out.

 

The $1000 to every household making less than $160000 is a ridiculous ploy and not real wise when you are talking running a deficit. Going to be paying for that for years to come.

 

Here they sent us the infamous $400 cheques for every man, woman and child in the province. But then we were running big surpluses but still most Albertan's I talked to wanted that money invested for the future, not given out as it was.

[Fishnwire]

increasing taxes does not stimulate the economy, cutting taxes does that is a simple fact of economics but Steve screwed it all up and cut taxes while the going was good. So with this increase in taxes he's only going to drive us deeper into a recession.

 

Actually, if you look at the previous 8 years in the states under Bush...there is a lot of evidence that proves (or at least indicates) tax cuts do NOT stimulate the economy...far from it. The effect of tax increases/decreases on an ecomony is far from a "simple fact of economics"...but has been a matter of fierce debate since the concept of taxation was originally conceived.

 

That said, any form of sales tax is the amongst the most regressive form of taxation available...meaning the less money you make, the higher percentage of tax based on income that you pay. As usual, the middle class will bear the burden of this tax, while the rich will get away relatively unscathed. If you want to fix the ecomony, you've got to invert that formula.

 

Why not make the rich pay? They can afford it.

[CLofchik]

I don't think it's dawned on most people that this is going to be the single largest tax increase in Ontario history. EVERYTHING just got hit 5%-8%.

 

Phone, cable & cellphone bill (which is already at outrageous monopolized pricing) just got an 8% bump.

 

Used car sales.

 

Out of province purchases.

 

Home owners are going to get HOSED. Hope you did all those reno's last year, because your budget needs to be 8% larger now. New home purchases just got popped for 8%, and hey let's talk about all those other nifty fees involved that aren't applicable for a GST rebate. A 400k home will now cost 438k, overnight.

 

 

Quick vote Liberal now, while there's still something left to steal!

[tonyb]

We'll have to wait and see...

 

It is a proposal right now, not in effect. If it did go into effect it wouldn't be until July 2010.

 

The payments for family incomes under $160,000.00 would not come until July 2011 and would come in the form of 3 seperate payments of $333.33, i'm guessing in 4 month intervals??

 

It's not like we have a say in the matter, so sit tight, don't panic...this won't hurt a bit

[Canuck2fan]

After reading this I find it strange that everyone is slamming the Ontario liberals for all the "new taxing". The truth is the FEDERAL conservatives have told the province of Ontario if you want any chance of getting what you rightfully deserve in transfer payments instead of getting screwed like we always have in Ontario you MUST harmonize the taxes.... For the majority of federal programs we put in 34 percent of the money but only get 20% or less back. So Lairity and Stevo cooked up this bait and switch at the federal level saying if you play ball with us we will start to give you back some of what you legally deserve.

 

Another funny thing is no one one complained about what they now pay the GST on.... Why isn't everyone writing their MP saying we are getting killed by paying the GST on this stuff. So when we harmonize the taxes it should COME OFF all these items instead of being increased by 8%. If Ontario doesn't charge it now why are the FEDS forcing them to charge it on all these new items?

 

I guess it is all a matter of perspective.

Edited March 26, 2009 by Canuck2fan

[Maverick]

Actually, if you look at the previous 8 years in the states under Bush...there is a lot of evidence that proves (or at least indicates) tax cuts do NOT stimulate the economy...far from it. The effect of tax increases/decreases on an ecomony is far from a "simple fact of economics"...but has been a matter of fierce debate since the concept of taxation was originally conceived.

 

That said, any form of sales tax is the amongst the most regressive form of taxation available...meaning the less money you make, the higher percentage of tax based on income that you pay. As usual, the middle class will bear the burden of this tax, while the rich will get away relatively unscathed. If you want to fix the ecomony, you've got to invert that formula.

 

Why not make the rich pay? They can afford it.

 

A tax cut is an encouragement to spend money. When the economy was booming, as it was in the last 8 years in the states, people didn't need any added incentive to spend money because they all had lots of it and weren't afraid to spend it. That is why those tax cuts did nothing. Now, in these troubled times, a tax cut would add that incentive to spend money and start to revive the economy. Now by no means is this the only way or the most effective but it is, historically, a way of attempting to stimulate the economy during a recession. This along with a drop in interest rates are stimulants.

 

In the early 80's there was a large recession, the largest since the great depression. What did the states do, they had the largest tax cut in history. What did Canada do during that recession, dropped interest rates from over 20% to under 10%.

 

I agree with the second part, that the rich should pay more taxes because they can afford to but let's not forget who writes up these bills. It's the rich and the rich have rich friends so they are going to cover their own ass and not worry about the middle class. It's unfortunate but that's the way it has always been and so long as the rich are running the country, it's going to stay that way.