A tough week for our friends down south

[Big Cliff]

live by the gun, die by the gun

 

the entire situation is just tragic and the factors at play here are so very deeply rooted that I honestly dont believe there will be anything remotely close to a solution for a very long time.

 

Its amazing that the plight of african americans continues on to this day hundreds of years later after being forced into slavery. Things took a turn in the 60's but unfortunately the damage was already done. Itd be nice to think that white people could stop being racist, and that black people could somehow overcome, but the cycle is so deep, i really fear that there is no end in site

 

This is really what desperation looks like...people are just going off the deep end.

I am sorry and I will likely take a lot of flack for this but: Miss Black America contest, The National African Canadian Association, Black In

Canada, Black Theatre Workshop.... BLM, the list is endless! You can't have it both ways! BTW (all lives matter)!

 

It isn't hard to find countless organizations that exclude white or non black people but at the same time try to form an organization that excludes people of color and you would have your butt handed to you and you would be tagged as racist.

 

I grew up beside and lived with people of almost every race and nationality, I have many friends that are "non white" but we don't see colors, we see hearts and charactor, we see each other as people, as friends.

 

Blacks need to be treated as equals, whites need to be treated as equals, until everyone starts treating the person standing next to him as equal there will always be these conflicts!

 

I fear however that these conflicts are only going to worsen, it isn't the average black/white/ whatever race or nationality that organize these things, I truly think that a lot of these conflicts are the work of people with other agendas. Divide and conquer!

[Spanky80]

I am sorry and I will likely take a lot of flack for this but: Miss Black America contest, The National African Canadian Association, Black In

Canada, Black Theatre Workshop.... BLM, the list is endless! You can't have it both ways! BTW (all lives matter)!

 

It isn't hard to find countless organizations that exclude white or non black people but at the same time try to form an organization that excludes people of color and you would have your butt handed to you and you would be tagged as racist.

 

I grew up beside and lived with people of almost every race and nationality, I have many friends that are "non white" but we don't see colors, we see hearts and charactor, we see each other as people, as friends.

 

Blacks need to be treated as equals, whites need to be treated as equals, until everyone starts treating the person standing next to him as equal there will always be these conflicts!

 

I fear however that these conflicts are only going to worsen, it isn't the average black/white/ whatever race or nationality that organize these things, I truly think that a lot of these conflicts are the work of people with other agendas. Divide and conquer!

 

Couldn't have stated that any better, Big Cliff. Very well said! Until we open our eyes to the big picture (the other agenda's) and can openly discuss without fear of being labelled, it will continue to divide. We are all equal, no special rights or privileges for anyone.

[netminder]

I am sorry and I will likely take a lot of flack for this but: Miss Black America contest, The National African Canadian Association, Black In

Canada, Black Theatre Workshop.... BLM, the list is endless! You can't have it both ways! BTW (all lives matter)!

 

It isn't hard to find countless organizations that exclude white or non black people but at the same time try to form an organization that excludes people of color and you would have your butt handed to you and you would be tagged as racist.

 

I grew up beside and lived with people of almost every race and nationality, I have many friends that are "non white" but we don't see colors, we see hearts and charactor, we see each other as people, as friends.

 

Blacks need to be treated as equals, whites need to be treated as equals, until everyone starts treating the person standing next to him as equal there will always be these conflicts!

 

I fear however that these conflicts are only going to worsen, it isn't the average black/white/ whatever race or nationality that organize these things, I truly think that a lot of these conflicts are the work of people with other agendas. Divide and conquer!

[woodenboater]

this question for our friends in the US (Art et al).

 

So it's been reported that Philando Castile told the officer that he was carrying and had a license which he was going get out of his pocket. It's also been reported (whether this is true or not I have no idea) that gun owners who are carrying are drilled to tell LEOs that they have a gun in their possession, that they have a license for the gun and that they will show the license to give to said officer.

 

If LEO was wearing a camera, then it should help clear up what happened but imo, when there's a child in the car, he's a passenger AND he says he's in possession and has a license, then chances are he's not going to do harm. A gang banger would just draw and take his chances. Utterly tragic and you can see the officer instantly regretted his decision.

 

Regardless, this has been a brutal week for LEOs and others. The Dallas shooting is absolutely chilling in that this was planned and carried out in the space of what ? 48 hrs ?

 

I hope saner and cooler heads prevail and that this really isn't the start of the devolution of American society.

[Big Cliff]

this question for our friends in the US (Art et al).

 

So it's been reported that Philando Castile told the officer that he was carrying and had a license which he was going get out of his pocket. It's also been reported (whether this is true or not I have no idea) that gun owners who are carrying are drilled to tell LEOs that they have a gun in their possession, that they have a license for the gun and that they will show the license to give to said officer.

 

If LEO was wearing a camera, then it should help clear up what happened but imo, when there's a child in the car, he's a passenger AND he says he's in possession and has a license, then chances are he's not going to do harm. A gang banger would just draw and take his chances. Utterly tragic and you can see the officer instantly regretted his decision.

 

Regardless, this has been a brutal week for LEOs and others. The Dallas shooting is absolutely chilling in that this was planned and carried out in the space of what ? 48 hrs ?

 

I hope saner and cooler heads prevail and that this really isn't the start of the devolution of American society.

I have a feeling this isn't confined within country borders, it might be more prevelent South of us right now but the issues know no borders.

 

Justice should know no color, justice should know no race, justice should be for one and all!

[Hoppy]

Really good post thanks Netminder.

[Hoppy]

What do you think of the police using a bomb on the shooter. That's something new. Is it legal, moral. How about here in Canada is it alright to add bomb strikes to the police arsenal?

[woodenboater]

I have a feeling this isn't confined within country borders, it might be more prevelent South of us right now but the issues know no borders.

 

Justice should know no color, justice should know no race, justice should be for one and all!

 

 

I think this is definitely more endemic to the US and not Canada. Yeah we have some problems (two major RCMP shootings by lone wolf nut jobs) but nowhere near what is happening down there. The class struggle and racial divide is becoming very polarising and I'm fearful that the gulf is going to become such that it will never be bridged and indeed form a greater chasm across society.

 

I've been to the US during certain events of historical magnitude and it was very easy to see things sliding down the abyss if events create the right conditions for something to happen. Not saying it will but imo, it won't take much for everything to go south. and quickly.

 

What our friends down there need are for the people to step back, cool down and use their grey matter to look at the big picture as I'm sure those who DO want to do ill will are sitting back rubbing their hands in glee.

Edited July 8, 2016 by woodenboater

[Spanky80]

What do you think of the police using a bomb on the shooter. That's something new. Is it legal, moral. How about here in Canada is it alright to add bomb strikes to the police arsenal?

 

What do you think of the shooter murdering 5 police officer's, who were there protecting the people protesting against them?

Edited July 8, 2016 by Spanky

[aplumma]

If you are approached by a law officer he needs to be comfortable approaching the vehicle. If you are staring in the rearview mirror fidging around, reaching under the seat nervousness or reaching for the glove box you have changed the way the officer will conduct the traffic stop. He has to escalate his guard until he knows what is going on. Any gun that is in reach and loaded regardless of if you have a CC is a potential cop killer. The load of CRAP that he was a good guy because he had a kid in the car makes no sense at all you might as well say I am rich because my wife is a blonde....... I can line up 10 people who look like they will kill you for saying hello but actually are nice people and for the other line up we got plenty of people in jail who look so innocent but will cut you fast and deep. You cant look at someone and make that judgment it just isn't possible. When I have a policeman come up to my windowless work van for any reason I place my hands fingers out seatbelt on till he looks inside of my van and asks me for my license and registration. Simple common sense is what is need by people when approached by an officer. If I had a gun in the car with or without a CC you do that while doing what I do and then inform him you have a loaded weapon in the vehicle so he can remove you from the vehicle and assess the location and legality of the weapon. This is lesson 101 when you get a CC no if's and's or but's. Who is wrong I do not know but if he had done this he would be alive.

You can not judge a police officer unless you have been in the situations he is in every traffic stop. Keep driving and badmouthing the good cops and they will decide their desire to protect the innocent is not worth the crap people are feeding them. If you think they do it for money guess again if you want to have a police force of poorly paid disgruntled officers then keep poking at them. We have a legal system to measure out justice the cop is in charge of seeing and siting people not deciding the penalty of the infraction.

 

Art

[Big Cliff]

If you are approached by a law officer he needs to be comfortable approaching the vehicle. If you are staring in the rearview mirror fidging around, reaching under the seat nervousness or reaching for the glove box you have changed the way the officer will conduct the traffic stop. He has to escalate his guard until he knows what is going on. Any gun that is in reach and loaded regardless of if you have a CC is a potential cop killer. The load of CRAP that he was a good guy because he had a kid in the car makes no sense at all you might as well say I am rich because my wife is a blonde....... I can line up 10 people who look like they will kill you for saying hello but actually are nice people and for the other line up we got plenty of people in jail who look so innocent but will cut you fast and deep. You cant look at someone and make that judgment it just isn't possible. When I have a policeman come up to my windowless work van for any reason I place my hands fingers out seatbelt on till he looks inside of my van and asks me for my license and registration. Simple common sense is what is need by people when approached by an officer. If I had a gun in the car with or without a CC you do that while doing what I do and then inform him you have a loaded weapon in the vehicle so he can remove you from the vehicle and assess the location and legality of the weapon. This is lesson 101 when you get a CC no if's and's or but's. Who is wrong I do not know but if he had done this he would be alive.

You can not judge a police officer unless you have been in the situations he is in every traffic stop. Keep driving and badmouthing the good cops and they will decide their desire to protect the innocent is not worth the crap people are feeding them. If you think they do it for money guess again if you want to have a police force of poorly paid disgruntled officers then keep poking at them. We have a legal system to measure out justice the cop is in charge of seeing and siting people not deciding the penalty of the infraction.

 

Art

Amen!

[Spanky80]

If you are approached by a law officer he needs to be comfortable approaching the vehicle. If you are staring in the rearview mirror fidging around, reaching under the seat nervousness or reaching for the glove box you have changed the way the officer will conduct the traffic stop. He has to escalate his guard until he knows what is going on. Any gun that is in reach and loaded regardless of if you have a CC is a potential cop killer. The load of CRAP that he was a good guy because he had a kid in the car makes no sense at all you might as well say I am rich because my wife is a blonde....... I can line up 10 people who look like they will kill you for saying hello but actually are nice people and for the other line up we got plenty of people in jail who look so innocent but will cut you fast and deep. You cant look at someone and make that judgment it just isn't possible. When I have a policeman come up to my windowless work van for any reason I place my hands fingers out seatbelt on till he looks inside of my van and asks me for my license and registration. Simple common sense is what is need by people when approached by an officer. If I had a gun in the car with or without a CC you do that while doing what I do and then inform him you have a loaded weapon in the vehicle so he can remove you from the vehicle and assess the location and legality of the weapon. This is lesson 101 when you get a CC no if's and's or but's. Who is wrong I do not know but if he had done this he would be alive.

You can not judge a police officer unless you have been in the situations he is in every traffic stop. Keep driving and badmouthing the good cops and they will decide their desire to protect the innocent is not worth the crap people are feeding them. If you think they do it for money guess again if you want to have a police force of poorly paid disgruntled officers then keep poking at them. We have a legal system to measure out justice the cop is in charge of seeing and siting people not deciding the penalty of the infraction.

 

Art

 

Amen X2

[woodenboater]

thanks Art, always good to have a perspective from down there.

[Old Ironmaker]

I just lost a lengthy post about the qualifications to be a Leo in the US vs. here in Ontario, I don't know about the rest of the country. Grade 12 and you are a Glock carrying cop down there for basically minimum wage. And they have a problem? No crap.

[Old Ironmaker]

In 75' on a lark we answered an add in a Fort Lauderdale newspaper looking for LEO's when on vacation. One of us wanted t be a Cop here (he eventually became a Chief here in Ontario after hard work). We had grade 13 at the time. Basically within an hour and filling out a 2 page application they were measuring us for a uniform. Green cards no problem. I was making 20K at the Steel plant and the wage was 12K a year, to be a Cop in Miami. Many down there are just not qualified to do that job. Simple as that. Watch the A@E series 60 Days In. Regular citizens are put in lock up for 60 days. One was a female Cop. She had serious mental issues and I cringe to think she carried a gun. After the series was over she quit. Or was she asked to quit.

[JoePa]

Sorry aplum' - I don't agree with everything you posted - I have a hand gun in my van always - I have a permit to carry and always do - if I was stopped by a cop for a traffic violation I am required to give my drivers license, insurance and registration - and that's it - I will answer no questions - any good lawyer will tell you that - I have the right to remain silent - telling him I have a gun only complicates things -

 

If you tell him that you have a gun the next thing he will do is have you get out of the vehicle and most lightly handcuff you - then search your vehicle and who knows what else he will do - my advice is - don't tell the cop anything - keep your mouth shut

[Old Ironmaker]

And if they find the gun Joe? Don't they ask " Do you have any knives, fire arms hand grenades in the vehicle that may harm me?" I have had a Troopers knee in my back. When there is a 250 pound Mass. State Troopers knee in your back co operation is advisable. Note, don't do 110 MPH in a new 1976 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce in a 55 on the Mass Pike. That was the first time I saw the business end of a weapon. I wasn't always "Old" Ironmaker.

[muddler]

When the courts REFUSE to do what they are supposed to do... justice. Then some of the public will take justice into their own hands. The courts failure to weigh the evidence and punish abuse of police powers has created this mess. Yes we see it hear in Toronto too.

 

The justice system seems to work on the principle of "JUST US".

 

Don't give me the crap of " Innocent till proven guilty" or " They'll have their day in court". That's pure crap.

 

The powerful and rich get away with murder, just look at the news every day.

 

Our legal system need to be overhauled get judges that have the stones to make proper judgements.

 

Sorry, been involved in the courts and the average person doesn't stand a chance.

[Old Ironmaker]

Sorry aplum' - I have a hand gun in my van always - I have a permit to carry and always do -

May I ask you a very simple question Joe? Why? What are you afraid of and what are you protecting? Or is it for an other reason?

 

I've asked this of my many friends and relatives that carry and conceal and the pat answer believe it or not is "cause I can".

Edited July 9, 2016 by Old Ironmaker

[mr blizzard]

jp if u have nothing to hide what are u worried about,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Like it or not there has been thru many new ways of communicating a me myself and I attitude toward life because u have a feeling of instant power thru the world at your finger tips, the values of respecting authority are fastly eroding

 

These people law enforcement are here to protect, if you obey the cops commands things will resolve peacefully unless u have something to hide or you wish to fight back

 

Aplumma is right,

 

it is interesting you have the media showing the tears of a criminal or a friend of a criminal who chose to fight back against authority, but u will never see the police give their first hand accounts of what happened because they cant, their hands are tied re investigations, so when u continually hear just one side of the medias interpretation of a storey it becomes the norm to viewers, its sad that the criminals who keep fighting with the law get all the attention, its called sensationalism, I would not give a crap if someone told me I have a permit, that is just a piece of paper, NOT A STATE of mind,,it was a military serviceman who killed 5 officers and shot many others,,,,,,

 

u cannot blame in good consciousness blame an officer for being on the defensive now, maybe the same concerns could be given to the slain officers and their families

[pics]

A question for the Americans here.. why do you have such aggressive police? The American soldiers seem to have the same attitudes wherever they are stationed while on tour.. I have never felt like I had to watch what I'm doing during a traffic by stop by our police and if they were rude or aggressive then I would ask to speak to their superior.. try that in the States and you might find yourself handcuffed on the ground...

Edited July 9, 2016 by pics

[GBW]

I posted this last night after watching a bit of the live feed in Dallas. I knew of the one 'killing' but the second of the person in the car is what triggered me to watch the Dallas live feed.

 

 

Ever wonder what is going on in ALL of North America and just shake your head? Me, I go to work each day to make enough to make sure my kids are happy and they are fed and then I go home. Today as I got home from work just after 10:15PM I hear about some crazy crap in Dallas TX. I am rather sure this has to do with a shooting of a gentleman the other day that ended tragically (different state but I can get the boiling over anger spreading from state to state). Notice I didn’t mention race of the now deceased or the officer? Yeah, that’s on purpose. I really do fear that “Mr” Trump’s movement has caused such chaos it will spread like a wildfire all over the globe! Yes it IS a tragic loss of life when things like this ‘nervous tension’ happens! But for what happened today to shoot officers in the back as a “sniper” in cold blood from a distance is far from a vengeance move, plant bombs that take out innocent people (and the bomb sure doesn’t see colour!) or make a difference in the world BUT it just makes it worse?!?! People can be any race/colour in my world and as long as you are an honest and genuine person then “it’s all good” as I tend to say. You may see me as ‘white’ but I see you as a person and friend. Just check my friends list to see that. If this post offends you then I’m sorry (not really) and please remove me of your ‘list’. To all those unnecessary lost lives over this short time may you Rest In Peace.

The one thing that sunk in today is that things could have been so different. But at the end of the car shooting video she did say they had weed. There is a whole new can of worms to the "what if's and what really happened and why" right?

[OhioFisherman]

Cops seem to live in a war zone here, any traffic stop or even domestic incident may be their last stop? We had a cop shot here about 10 years ago answering a call about a guy starting his 4 wheeler on fire, and nothing much ever happens in my area.

 

A few east - west, north - south interstates in my area, with the drug traffic they area looking for suspicious activity to make traffic stops, and they do bust people with guns that don't report them in a traffic stop. They also bust people carrying a lot of drugs!

 

Like 20 drug overdoses in Akron Ohio over last weekend, why would you rag on cops that may save you or a loved ones life when they OD?

[GBW]

Like 20 drug overdoses in Akron Ohio over last weekend, why would you rag on cops that may save you or a loved ones life when they OD?

Wow! the "new" drugs out there are just crazy as it is (even 'weed').

[OhioFisherman]

GBW, heroin and fentanyl, or maybe a mix of the two? As I understand it the cops and other first res-ponders are carrying OD kits that have an antidote, and it is available in some drug stores here without a prescription because of the amount of cases and deaths, just crazy!

 

I think 3 of that 20 in Akron died, the rest got help in time. It seems to be everywhere, even the small city near me has problems with it.