wormdunker Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 If you read my post about drywall screw guns you know I have started a renovation at my home. I gained a lot of valuable advice by your replies - thanx so much. Now I'm working on the plumbing. The hot water supply to my existing shower is weak - 1/2" copper. Yet the cold is very strong. I have 85 psi water pressure at my laundry sink. At this stage of construction I have the opportunity to run 3/4" directly from the town water supply after the meter to my hot water tank, then I would run 3/4" to the new bathroom (shower). After the bathroom I would probably reduce to 1/2" for the rest of the house. Once again I know the OFC members will offer advice/comments for this situation. Thanx guys. By the way I am converting to Pex for the remainder of the project. I never used pex until yesterday - stuff is awesome. I guess everything I learned about soldering copper is now outdated! You wanna buy 2 butane torches, complete with solder, paste, & many copper fittings? LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spincast Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 just a thought on the pex - if the pipes freeze, your options are limited for thawing. A lot of folks with the pex installs have had issues this winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormdunker Posted March 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 OOPS! Good thought! Thanx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerritt Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) pretty sure upgrading to 3/4 to the bathroom is a moot point... i agree with 3/4" to the meter however. If I remember correctly ,upgrading to 3/4" will increase the volume. But it wont increase pressure. G Edited March 8, 2015 by Gerritt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormdunker Posted March 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 Yes Gerritt you are right about higher volume with 3/4", does not increase pressure. I know this for a fact from my days of installing underground lawn sprinklers. The # of sprinkler heads in a zone is increased by using 3/4" piping vs 1/2". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Ironmaker Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 Pex is less likely to split after it thaws if it has frozen. You know my opinion on the 3/4 line. If you have a fairly new fixture it doesn't matter the flow you have to the fixture the water saver will kill the power shower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormdunker Posted March 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Thanx Mr. Ironmaker. These new water saver shower fixtures as you stated will reduce my water flow. At this point I'm thinking to leave the existing 1/2" copper for the bathroom & at the time I install the new bathroom fixtures I'll see how it performs. If at that time I need to run the 3/4" line I can still do so because my plumbing comes into the bathroom overhead & I'll still be able to access that area. Thanx for your comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bacon Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 just a thought on the pex - if the pipes freeze, your options are limited for thawing. A lot of folks with the pex installs have had issues this winter. If the job is done right then frozen pipes shouldn't be a problem... assuming that the furnace is working. From my understanding, they don't split when they freeze. So atleast if it does freeze there will be fewer problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronzo Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Any chance your hot water line has gunk built up in it? You can lose a good chunk of your 1/2" diameter to build-up in the pipes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheaptackle Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 I was wondering that too Ronzo, along with possibly the tank itself needing either flushed or even replaced if it hasn't been flushed properly in the past. If the cold volume & presssure are both good I'd be looking for a restriction on the hot somewhere - could even be in the faucet/mixing valve or a pinched line. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRIFTER_016 Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 just a thought on the pex - if the pipes freeze, your options are limited for thawing. A lot of folks with the pex installs have had issues this winter. But when it is thawed it will still be water tight unlike copper which will usually end up split or leaking @ a joint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheaptackle Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 But when it is thawed it will still be water tight unlike copper which will usually end up split or leaking @ a joint. And a whole lot easier to fix if there is an issue... Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRIFTER_016 Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Up here in the NWT pex is used extensively. Probably wouldn't be the case if it wasn't better than copper. I know my cabin is going to be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Well it's all about volume and somewhat about pressure... If you are currently plumbed from the get go with 1/2" and you split that off to the cold as well at the hot water tank.. your flow is pretty restricted after that. Cold will flow better than the hot ever so slightly due to the added tank restrictions. Generally the correct way to to it is 3/4 to just before the cold inlet pipe on the tank and then 1/2 from there to feed the cold and same coming out of the hot water tank for a balanced system. Volume of the 3/4 pipe split into now 2 x 1/2" pipes. I like the dirt blasted off me... so I did mine with 1" from the well tank and then 3/4 once it splits at the hot water tank... with short branches to sinks at 1/2. I also have a 1/2" hot water recirc line or I'd be waiting a long time for the hot to reach the tap. If it's easy to do, I'd start with upping that feed from tank / street outlet to the split at the hot water tank to 3/4". As for Pex over copper... I'll take copper every day of the week. Pex is used everywhere now as nobody could afford to do a new house in copper anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aplumma Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 The code here in the US is you can feed 2 fixtures with 1/2 pipe and over 3 is 3/4 pipe. The lack of pressure is an indication of a restriction this cold be at the fixture or at the heater. The pipes rarely have an issue unless something illegal was done behind the wall. Remove the hot water stem from the faucet and the seat if it has one and turn back on the hot water to check the flow. It could be as simple as the screw has backed out of the stem and gotten stuck in the seat. The heater in some brands have a check ball in the hotwater outlet side and it can cause the same issue. It is tough to diagnose from here. Ahhhh pex it is used not because it is better but is cheaper. Pex uses compression bands to put either plastic or a copper fitting on to a plastic pipe. A frozen Pex pipe will expand and while it most of the time will not rupture it will still weaken the walls. Now a frozen joint will expand the ring and can leak or blow off when ever it wants. All pipes have flaws but in my experience copper is king. Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Ironmaker Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 If anyone knows where I can source residential fixtures without water saver inserts please let me know. No matter the pressure or the flow I will never be able to get a Kramer/Jerry Seinfeld power shower with the water saver fixtures. A few fixtures I was able to pop the screens out but the shower head is useless. I sometimes take the entire shower head off to get a good blast of water on me. As for Pex, I did have a Swage Lock fitting pop off behind a wall once. It simply wasn't tight enough, my bad. I think it's all Shark Bite fittings now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Ironmaker Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Thread highjacking alert, sorry WD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRIFTER_016 Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Thread highjacking alert, sorry WD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooner_jr Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 If you do go with Pex, the i.d. of 3/4" is about the same as 1/2" copper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 I've added a small 2 piece bathroom in the basement and went with SuperPex on the advice of a couple of plumbers. Joints were made with SharkBite connectors. I was very hesitant, but after seeing the specs on that stuff, the torch and solder won't be seeing any use soon. The one chap said if you can pull SharkBites apart, you can have a rumble with the local gorilla and likely win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenboater Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 ^^^ if you can afford Sharkbite, go for it ! Found out about Sharkbite AFTER I used clamps to connect Pex pipes. Nice thing about Pex is it can make soft bends around things vs needing a math degree to figure out copper runs lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 The bad thing about them is they spin.. not so good on a recirc pump! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Plumbed my house with pex 25 years ago. The copper to the bathroom upstairs was so built up with deposits that if someone used water downstairs nothing came out upstairs. Also use pex for air compressor lines. 150 PSI and never an air leak for over 20 years. Personally I wouldn't use copper even if I could afford it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormdunker Posted March 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Thanx guys - lottsa good info here! Now I have some investigating to do. Flushing the hot water tank is one of the first things I'm going to do, then I'll check -perhaps change the mixing valve & or the cartridge in the tap. We have a Kinetico water softener here since I built the house. It's supposed to eliminate the scale & crud build up in supply lines & fixtures. Or for an experiment - remove the existing 1/2" copper hot supply & replace with 1/2" Pex. See if there is a difference in the water flow. I'll probably do ALL of the above as it is easy to access to these areas before I start installing drywall. I'm surprised to hear the statement about 3/4" pex ID being about the same as 1/2" copper! Sharkbite fittings are extremely expensive, but very convenient. I don't think my Visa card will go that high! LOL! Bernie's has 25 year old Pex? If it's still good I'd say that's worth the effort. During my work I must have disturbed an old fitting. When I turned the water back on I now have a slight drip at an existing 1/2" T. Oh well, that will get removed & replaced. Saturday I soldered 24 joints of 1/2" copper while re locating my softener. Turned the water back on - NO LEAKS - Woo Hoo! The main shut off for my existing 3/4" supply from the town is in a rather inconvenient location. So I installed a 3/4" full flow compression ball valve at a more convenient location. Yowsers - $27.00!! The main guy (the owner) at my local hardware store says it's because they must now use lead free components. Yet on Sunday I purchased the same valve at my local Rona - only 12 bux?? It's probably not lead free. My local guy (Pro Harware) sells Pex fittings for 30 - 40% less than Home Depot. Thanx for all the advice guys. I'll be back at it later today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister G Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) If anyone knows where I can source residential fixtures without water saver inserts please let me know. No matter the pressure or the flow I will never be able to get a Kramer/Jerry Seinfeld power shower with the water saver fixtures. A few fixtures I was able to pop the screens out but the shower head is useless. I sometimes take the entire shower head off to get a good blast of water on me. As for Pex, I did have a Swage Lock fitting pop off behind a wall once. It simply wasn't tight enough, my bad. I think it's all Shark Bite fittings now. OI, you want the Commando 450 shower head that my buddy Kramer got....it's the BEST...here's one shower head I love but it's pricey.... http://www.homedepot.com/p/Oxygenics-SkinCare-1-Spray-2-in-Showerhead-in-Chrome-with-Comfort-Control-27267/204688609?cm_mmc=shopping-_-googleads-_-pla-_-204688609&ci_sku=204688609&ci_gpa=pla&ci_src=17588969&gclid=CIutl4OboMQCFUY6gQodVSQA_g Edited March 11, 2015 by Mister G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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