Joeytier Posted January 22, 2015 Report Posted January 22, 2015 http://www.newrepublic.com/article/120823/canada-lets-makayla-sault-die-leukemia-over-religious-sensitivity I'm usually not one to get overly bent out of shape about our governments crippling fear of offending anyone or any culture, but this one really struck a nerve for me. Homeopathy is not mediicine, and our country's court system has allowed 1 and potentially another child to die of very preventable diseases in the name of 'cultural sensitivity'...I am disgusted beyond words so I'll just re-post what I already put on facebook... "We officially have an epidemic of parents that, after reading a few anti-scientific alternative 'medicine' blogs (i'm using that term very loosely) feel like they are more qualified to make life-altering (or ending) decisions for their childrens health than people that have devoted their entire life to fight and cure VERY treatable diseases, and our spineless government ruled in the parents favour, essentially allowing 1, and maybe 2 ontario children to die of very preventable diseases. I have no doubt they loved their children, but I sincerely hope they are convicted of manslaughter and never procreate again." Okay I'm done, and I need a drink
lew Posted January 22, 2015 Report Posted January 22, 2015 Saw it on the news Joey and agree with you 100%
irishfield Posted January 22, 2015 Report Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Been going on for years (unfortunately) with the JW's believing that something, that could be easily fixed with a simple 3 hour blood transfusion, will be taken care of by a higher power and instead the child dies. Not sure what the real answer is, it becomes a slippery slope pretty quickly. Trust me I've seen more than I could ever want to see in the past 5 years... people believing in medicine, homeopathy, God, the devil and everything in between and way too many lost from ALL paths! Edited January 22, 2015 by irishfield
Joeytier Posted January 22, 2015 Author Report Posted January 22, 2015 .. people believing in medicine, homeopathy, God, the devil and everything in between and way too many lost from ALL paths! That doesn't mean that all should be treated with equal respect in the face of overwhelming evidence and when childrens lives are on the line, although I suspect you don't need to hear my opinion on the issue.
irishfield Posted January 22, 2015 Report Posted January 22, 2015 Affirmative on both counts Joey... I've seen, heard, been told and been involved in way too many decisions on what path to take in the last 5 years and can only believe we've made the right decisions so far, but there's always a voice in the back of your head questioning if you did so.. and what if.. I can honestly say, that if we'd been across the street at Sick Kids with a child that depended on our decisions and signatures ... vs Mt Sinai, PMH, TGH, Sunnybrook, St. Mikes,etc with a child that signs her own consent forms, I'm not sure I could have signed them for her and put her through what she's been through. I might well have "believed" in something else to spare her the time buying process that they call chemotherapy.
ketchenany Posted January 22, 2015 Report Posted January 22, 2015 Affirmative on both counts Joey... I've seen, heard, been told and been involved in way too many decisions on what path to take in the last 5 years and can only believe we've made the right decisions so far, but there's always a voice in the back of your head questioning if you did so.. and what if.. I can honestly say, that if we'd been across the street at Sick Kids with a child that depended on our decisions and signatures ... vs Mt Sinai, PMH, TGH, Sunnybrook, St. Mikes,etc with a child that signs her own consent forms, I'm not sure I could have signed them for her and put her through what she's been through. I might well have "believed" in something else to spare her the time buying process that they call chemotherapy. Wayne I've seen more hospitals that I care to mention, 15 years, my wife in and out of them. I've signed those forms more than once. I believe it's a path people/parents want to take. Three years ago with my mom, with one of the best MDs I have ever met when my mother was diagnosed with that terrible disease at an advanced stage with no hope and she was 90. I quote "we can fight this war, but the ending will be the same" Do we attack or follow the path? We followed the path. The other war would have been a longer wait, with the same
manitoubass2 Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) http://www.newrepublic.com/article/120823/canada-lets-makayla-sault-die-leukemia-over-religious-sensitivity I'm usually not one to get overly bent out of shape about our governments crippling fear of offending anyone or any culture, but this one really struck a nerve for me. Homeopathy is not mediicine, and our country's court system has allowed 1 and potentially another child to die of very preventable diseases in the name of 'cultural sensitivity'...I am disgusted beyond words so I'll just re-post what I already put on facebook... "We officially have an epidemic of parents that, after reading a few anti-scientific alternative 'medicine' blogs (i'm using that term very loosely) feel like they are more qualified to make life-altering (or ending) decisions for their childrens health than people that have devoted their entire life to fight and cure VERY treatable diseases, and our spineless government ruled in the parents favour, essentially allowing 1, and maybe 2 ontario children to die of very preventable diseases. I have no doubt they loved their children, but I sincerely hope they are convicted of manslaughter and never procreate again." Okay I'm done, and I need a drink Pick up a book, instead of that drink. This thread has ZERO place on this board IMO Edited January 23, 2015 by manitoubass2
Rod Caster Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 Pick up a book, instead of that drink. This thread has ZERO place on this board IMO Sober since Jan 1st 2015 and your condecending drinkers already? haha.
manitoubass2 Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 Zero issues with alcohol Many issues with stupidity
leaf4 Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 I just had to laugh when I heard this on the radio, not at the situation but she passed away due to a stroke and her parents have blamed the chemo she was receiving as the reason for the stroke saying it was a side affect. When I was in grade 3 my best friend got leukemia, went through several years of chemo before he was finally all done (still goes for a yearly check) and he's with us today and I think I can thank modern medicine for it
Joeytier Posted January 23, 2015 Author Report Posted January 23, 2015 Zero issues with alcohol Many issues with stupidity Seeing as how this board is comprised of mostly NF posts (many of which posted by yourself) these days, I don't really understand your initial post, other than it upsetting you personally. That was never my intent, but It is something I have very strong convictions about, and since I had just read the article and was very steamed about it, I figured this would be a good venue for discussion on the topic, given the history of more than a few posters here. Passive (internet) aggression won't do much, I don't think.
Oggie Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 Couldn't agree more Joey. You have every right to raise your concern. Half the posts on this Board aren't fishing related. The problem is you're dealing with a very low scientific literacy in society. The average reporter certainly has no science background. As a result they often give equal value to the opinions of a physiotherapist as compared to a chiropractor. Homeopath or Naturopath vs a medical doctor. ETC. The government should have involved Children's Aid to advocate on behalf of the child. I think part of the problem was the family was First Nations another complicating factor. As far as I can see governments don't involve themselves in anything related to First Nations (unfortunately).
Dave Bailey Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 Agree totally. But one thing that really burns my butt is that everyone seems to be all over the parents, and the judge who sided with them, but nobody seems to be going after the charlatans who run the fraudulent money-grubbing 'clinic' that takes people's money and watches them die, fully knowing that they are providing snake oil. My hatred for such people may get me into trouble one day, because my patience is wearing out.
Joeytier Posted January 23, 2015 Author Report Posted January 23, 2015 Raw food, vitamin C injections, and cold laser therapy for treatment of acute lymphoblastic leukemia. I'm far from a medical professional but someone please show me the credible peer-reviewed scientific papers demonstrating the effectiveness of ANY of these treatments for acute stages of leukemia. How is this is not criminal?
Oggie Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 It is criminal Joey and if the situation didn't involve First Nations I bet the government would lay some charges. I remember the protracted court cases dealing with Jehovah Witness children that required surgery or blood transfusions. The government stepped in for those kids.
Gerritt Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 This thread is full of sadness. That said it does have a place here. As a constructive discussion. The loss of a child is never easy. I won't fault the parents or the courts. This child chose what she wanted, very brave of her. To disparage someone for thier choices is of low class in my opinion, especially when it comes to the loss of a child. That said discussions regarding it are beneficial. I pray you are never in the position where you have to say stop! Enough is enough. Especially when it comes to your child. I have been there. Unless you have walked in their shoes you have zero idea the choices and decisions forced upon you. I pray you never have to endure this sort of loss... But to insult others, (parents, courts etc) is no way to get your point across when you have never experienced it for yourself. Meaning the choices made for a dieing child. Please show some class/empathy. G
Joeytier Posted January 23, 2015 Author Report Posted January 23, 2015 Of course I could never understand what they were and are continuing to go through, but that does not mean I can not express my disappoint to treat their ill child. The main source of my disappointment is not this case specifically, but rather the trend of parents clinging to sensationalist, anti-scientific 'miracle' natural cures for diseases such as this. The parents later blaming the chemo as the cause got me more than a little riled up. That's all.
Dave Bailey Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 Children are everyone's responsibility, because if their parents make poor decisions, we must defend a helpless child. That's why we have compulsory education standards, and other programs to ensure that all children get a chance in life. Someone must be held responsible in all this.
Gerritt Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 I have written several responses to this post many times..... And deleted them before I hit "post" as this is a very touchy subject personally to me and others... Say what you will.... But mainstream scientific medicine does not mean those you love will survive. Regardless what path you take, when your time is up.... It's up. G
irishfield Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 I noticed you'd mellowed in the first response G. I kept mine pretty open ended as well. Like you said... you don't know what you'd do until you have the misfortune of walking in their shoes. My good fishing friend was told 3 years ago to go home and get his stuff in order as he wouldn't see his next birthday... as there was nothing modern medicine could do for him. He's disease free today thanks to a somewhat natural medicine. What works for one, doesn't work for others. I've watched them come and unfortunately go, with a fairly tight "family" in the sarcoma unit that keep in touch. Identical Sarcomas.. identical treatments and unfortunately not identical outcomes.
bigugli Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 It's a tightrope that far too many families have to walk. Do we deny a loved one desperate measures and experimental treatment? do we let them endure excessive suffering? Do we let them go peacefully? Which expert do we listen to? Where does our conscience come into play? There is no one answer to any of those questions. Seen enough death and dying over the decades and I since learnt that I have no right to sit in judgement over these heart rending decisions. And even hindsight is not 20/20. There is always room for doubt and second guessing, and any family facing such crises gets to face a great big pile of it.
Big Cliff Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 It's a tightrope that far too many families have to walk. Do we deny a loved one desperate measures and experimental treatment? do we let them endure excessive suffering? Do we let them go peacefully? Which expert do we listen to? Where does our conscience come into play? There is no one answer to any of those questions. Seen enough death and dying over the decades and I since learnt that I have no right to sit in judgement over these heart rending decisions. And even hindsight is not 20/20. There is always room for doubt and second guessing, and any family facing such crises gets to face a great big pile of it. Very well put!
moxie Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 100% in agreement but as long as the legislation applies to everyone regardless of creed or culture I can accept it. The less government is in my face the better.
Steve Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) we can make this "somewhat" fishing related. Just do a search for Gary Loomis cancer cure. Fishing's very own G Loomis (Gary Loomis) sold G Loomis to Shimano in the early 2000's because he was diagnosed with terminal cancer. I won't spoil the story, but it was quite amazing. Needless to say, he's still with us, and running North Fork Rods. I don't know what to believe.....but we don't know nearly enough about Cancer (or its treatments) to make conclusive decisions as to what methods and/or treatments work best. Edited January 23, 2015 by Steve
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