Tracker Tundra - Legal Advice is Appreciated

[young_one]

Good day to all of you!

Been a member of this community since early 2000`s, have always came here for expert advice and useful information on fishing and more. It's a great community we have here!

Long story short, last fall while fishing the famous Bay of Quinte in Ontario, Canada, our Tracker Tundra 18SC sank to the bottom of Lake Ontario in just a few minutes. Myself and 3 crew member were extremely lucky; pulled out of the water within 10min in the 37*F frigid water.

(Scott Walcott and Sheldon Hatch were among the heroes that day)

1st owner, bought from local BPS Tracker Center in 2007. 2005 Tundra SC, 2006 150 Optimax, 2006 Pro Kicker. 4 guys all less than 200lbs, normal 6 rod trolling spread and minimum tackle.

• the weather was rough, but we were among the ~40+ boats out there.

• while heading in for cover, I had the boat slightly parallel to the waves, we got swamped by a big wave. Our bailing attempts were useless, everything happened in a flash...

• we had to abandon ship, as the boat sank quickly. Transom first, the boat was vertical and the bow went down within what seems to be less than a few minutes.

I'm hoping someone on this forum can point me to the right direction, a number to call for legal advice, past experience with Tracker Marine, or perhaps a precedent case.

Our All State insurance company still haven't made a decision on the boat & outboard compensation, they HAVE TO find and bring the boat out of water for assessments. Our coverage is minimum; at this point, a total value of $30K on-board fishing equipment and electronics will not be covered. (boat insurance covers up to $1000 for equipment, and home insurance have exclusion for lost due to rising water level and 'waves') :banghead: Gotta check your policies!

If you were in my shoes, I'm sure your ultimate goal is to seek financial compensation for everything that was lost. My dad and I enjoy fishing as much as anyone on this forum community, and we are just your average income family who saved enough so we can fish safe and comfortably. It has been a very difficult winter to overcome everything that had happened, and dealing with insurance is never a walk in the park.

Through my initial research and help from fellow members, I have pulled out the following Transport Canada Regulations to make my case. (Contacted Trans. Cad, waiting for responses)

“Every small vessel shall be fitted with inherently buoyant flotation material that provides sufficient

buoyancy to keep the vessel from sinking when it is swamped and when the passengers are clinging

to the outside of the vessel, where the individual weights of the motor, the passengers, and the

equipment carried in or attached to the vessel do not exceed the weights used in the formula set out”

THIS.. is the only part that matters to the consumer... it MUST float!

4.2.8.4 Requirements for Level Flotation Test

4.2.8.4.1 When the specified preconditioning has been completed (subsection 4.2.8.2), the small vessel shall

float in fresh water as follows:

(a) the angle of heel shall not exceed 10 degrees;

( one part of either the bow or stern reference areas, as defined in paragraph 1.2.1, shall remain

above the surface of the water; and

© the midpoint of the submerged bow or stern reference area shall not be more than 152 mm (6 in)

below the surface of the water

Apologies for the long post, and I wish everyone a safe and successful season!

Will

[email protected] (please don't hesitate to email)

Edited April 17, 2014 by FISCHEN

[Stoty]

I was also out there that day and saw it all happen. We were behind my buddies Scott and Sheldon and were ready to jump in to provide a hand if needed. Very scary stuff.

I can't give much advice on the insurance part of it, but they sure as hell should cover everything as it was clearly no fault of yours. We were in a massively deep Starcraft and were having issues getting to cover as well.

That was one brutal day out there. Even through the 2 years I was guiding Quinte... that was one of the worst days I've ever seen.

We were glad to hear that everyone was ok. Stuff can be replaced, but lives cant.

I wish you guys all the best in getting this sorted out and hope to see you guys out on the water again this fall.

[bushart]

I don't understand why it sank when swamped??

 

I thought also even full of water it should stay on top---as long as no floatation was removed.

 

Yes that sounds like a scary day---good your all ok

[Big Cliff]

Well, I can't provide any legal advice but I was sure glad to hear that no lives were lost. Good luck getting it all sorted out, I hope it all works out for you, please keep us posted!

[outllaw]

in reality the boat itself would be evidence. . possibilities are endless without proof. you without the hull will be into a legal battle that the boat company mentioned,has been involved in for over a decade. many split open from defective welds/assembly.

good luck . your into an uphill battle.

[BillM]

An uphill battle is right, especially with the boat at the bottom of the bay.. Good luck.

[DanD]

Do yourself a favor and get a lawyer and or a law firm involved ASAP. Most law firms will offer a free consultation, too determine whether there’s enough of a case to justify them getting involved.

Why I say a law firm is that they’ll have a number of associate lawyers in the firm and will direct you too whoever is best suited to handle such a case.

Going to a one lawyer office; he/she may not be familiar with the presidents of this type of case and give you the bum’s rush out the door.

My daughter is a personal injury lawyer at McKenzie Lake here in London and she’s the one that has suggested this route; when I told her about this thread.

 

Dan.

[wormdunker]

Sorry to hear of your bad luck. Good to hear every one involved is OK. I was recently looking at a new Lund. They show a Lund with 66 holes drilled into it, with 2 guys in the boat it still floated! Can't elaborate on legal advice. Good luck.

[lookinforwalleye]

This is the same boat that sank in 2007? something wrong with this rig it should have stayed a float regardless unless of course if had been modified.

 

Can`t offer any meaningful advice just glad everybody survived!!!

[Sinker]

I was hoping you would tell your story here. I was really curious to know what happened that day. Was your bilge pump working? It almost sounds like you had unknown water in the hull when you got hit by the big wave. It was a very bad day out there, that's for sure, but for a boat to completely sink to the bottom isn't right. I hope you sue their butts off, and put that company out of business. Its not the first Tracker boat I've heard of that has sunk like a stone, and probably not the last either.

 

I'm pretty sure its the Canadian Coast Guard who tests all boats for level floatation, so I would probably start there. If they don't know, go to the US coast guard and ask some quistions.

 

S.

[jedimaster]

Are you going after the insurance company or Tracker? PM me.

[Roy]

This is the same boat that sank in 2007? something wrong with this rig it should have stayed a float regardless unless of course if had been modified.

 

Can`t offer any meaningful advice just glad everybody survived!!!

 

November 23, 2013, Here's a link to the original thread. http://ontariofishingcommunity.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=72343&hl=%26quot%3Bsheldon+hatch%26quot%3B#entry819838

[lookinforwalleye]

I was hoping you would tell your story here. I was really curious to know what happened that day. Was your bilge pump working? It almost sounds like you had unknown water in the hull when you got hit by the big wave. It was a very bad day out there, that's for sure, but for a boat to completely sink to the bottom isn't right. I hope you sue their butts off, and put that company out of business. Its not the first Tracker boat I've heard of that has sunk like a stone, and probably not the last either.

 

I'm pretty sure its the Canadian Coast Guard who tests all boats for level floatation, so I would probably start there. If they don't know, go to the US coast guard and ask some quistions.

 

S.

 

There is obviously a problem with this boat and given the fact that it had sunk previously and then repaired and then sunk again and the fact that it is manufactured by a company that has a history of hull and transom failures tells me that this boat could have had another hull or transom failure that could have contributed to this accident. Having said all that the bloody thing should have remained partially a float and the fact that it didn`t is the real mystery, boats "sink" for various reasons I had a livewell pump fail last year and my boat started to take on water fortunately the bilge was able to handle it.

I would think since this boat was manufactured in the States their regulatory bodies would be very interested in this story.

[ch312]

 

• the weather was rough, but we were among the ~40+ boats out there.

• while heading in for cover, I had the boat slightly parallel to the waves, we got swamped by a big wave. Our bailing attempts were useless, everything happened in a flash...

 

 

I am very sorry to hear that you had such a horrible experience on the water and really hope that your insurance company will do the right thing and replace the boat and as much equipment as possible.

 

Who is expected to pay for recovering the boat, the insurance company or you?

 

 

Don't take this the wrong way and I am not trying to rub salt in your wounds, I'm just stating this for any inexperienced boaters who may not be in the know. Running parallel to the waves in rough water is the absolute last thing you want to do as it's the easiest way for a boat to take on water and capsize. If you have unknown water below deck, as Sinker mentioned, this would only make matters worse due to the weight shifting from side to side with each wave while running parallel to the waves.

 

 

 

You should definitely see what Tracker has to say about their boat not floating. More importantly, I think you should be contacting the coast guard to see why they approved a boat that does not float. One or both of these parties should be held liable for manufacturing and approving a boat that does not meet standards.

 

Does Tracker know this model does not float when full of water?

Was there an error in the manufacturing process where the installation of foam for bouncy was missed? If so, who inspected the boat and passed it?

Does the coast guard not look into actual flotation tests and they simply believe whatever the manufacturer tells them?

 

 

 

Many questions need to be answered. Unfortunately, I think you're going to have difficulty obtaining those answers.

 

Best of luck to you!

Edited April 17, 2014 by ch312

[Whopper]

Way to many unknowns going on with this situation for me or anybody else to place the blame here.

Sorry for your material loss but glad you and your buddies survived.

 

There's a whole bunch of people at this moment in the Western Basin area of Lake Erie that just wished they had your problem of just dealing with lost equipment.

[outllaw]

not a hijack but. as whopper just stated a tracker went down,on the news. 4 souls. . don't know if its realted in your aspect. but trackers are well known for real bad issues. try to get your hull back if possible.

[NANUK]

Sorry for your incident and glad all aboard got out ok,

Floatation foam is only good when dry, not much good if it was already partially water logged,

not saying that was the case.

[Whopper]

George the boat was found upside down still floating, one of four that were on board has been spotted.......no good

[lew]

 

 

 

 

Who is expected to pay for recovering the boat, the insurance company or you

 

That's what I was thinking as well, as I imagine recovering that boat and getting it back to shore is gonna be quite expensive and the OP should definitely be compensated for that along with everything else .

[young_one]

This is the same boat that sank in 2007? something wrong with this rig it should have stayed a float regardless unless of course if had been modified.

 

Can`t offer any meaningful advice just glad everybody survived!!!

 

 

 

November 23, 2013, Here's a link to the original thread. http://ontariofishingcommunity.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=72343&hl=%26quot%3Bsheldon+hatch%26quot%3B&do=findComment&comment=819838

 

 

 

There is obviously a problem with this boat and given the fact that it had sunk previously and then repaired and then sunk again and the fact that it is manufactured by a company that has a history of hull and transom failures tells me that this boat could have had another hull or transom failure that could have contributed to this accident. Having said all that the bloody thing should have remained partially a float and the fact that it didn`t is the real mystery, boats "sink" for various reasons I had a livewell pump fail last year and my boat started to take on water fortunately the bilge was able to handle it.

I would think since this boat was manufactured in the States their regulatory bodies would be very interested in this story.

 

The first boat that sank was definitely a lemon. We were given a brand new boat and outboards, there were additional aftermarket welding done to the transom joints. At the time we valued the boat for it's unique hull design. Aluminum features, plus the look and performance of fiberglass. I agree 100% with everyone that the vessel should've remained partially a float.

[lookinforwalleye]

New boat with aftermarket welding...don`t like the sound of that! Why in the world would a brand new boat need aftermarket work on the transom that just does not sound right!!!

[fishnsled]

I certainly can't help with the legal aspect of this. With all the troubles you hear about these boats from this manufacturer (Tracker and Nitro) would it not make sense to start some kind of class action suit against them? Far too many problems and complaints. I'm really surprised they can even sell a boat today with all the negativity following them around. Insurance should be paying for the recovery of your boat, imo.

 

On a positive note, very happy to see you and the crew got out of this OK. Wish you all the best in resolving this but as others have said, it looks like a heck of a battle ahead that is not going to be over with anytime soon. Seek some legal advise and go from there.

 

BTW - I'm sure I can find a spot in my boat for you a couple of times this year if you like.

[young_one]

I was hoping you would tell your story here. I was really curious to know what happened that day. Was your bilge pump working? It almost sounds like you had unknown water in the hull when you got hit by the big wave. It was a very bad day out there, that's for sure, but for a boat to completely sink to the bottom isn't right. I hope you sue their butts off, and put that company out of business. Its not the first Tracker boat I've heard of that has sunk like a stone, and probably not the last either.

 

I'm pretty sure its the Canadian Coast Guard who tests all boats for level floatation, so I would probably start there. If they don't know, go to the US coast guard and ask some quistions.

 

S.

 

The bilge pump was working, I always leave it on during rough conditions. (Battery was not an issue either, BlueTop31 was always charged before trips. x2 alternators from the outboards helps a little bit)

It was possible there were unknown water in the hull, it's also possible the bilge pump didn't pump out water 100% when the waves were big and the vent sitting potentially below the waterline.

[young_one]

 

Who is expected to pay for recovering the boat, the insurance company or you?

 

 

Don't take this the wrong way and I am not trying to rub salt in your wounds, I'm just stating this for any inexperienced boaters who may not be in the know. Running parallel to the waves in rough water is the absolute last thing you want to do as it's the easiest way for a boat to take on water and capsize. If you have unknown water below deck, as Sinker mentioned, this would only make matters worse due to the weight shifting from side to side with each wave while running parallel to the waves.

 

 

 

You should definitely see what Tracker has to say about their boat not floating. More importantly, I think you should be contacting the coast guard to see why they approved a boat that does not float. One or both of these parties should be held liable for manufacturing and approving a boat that does not meet standards.

 

Does Tracker know this model does not float when full of water?

Was there an error in the manufacturing process where the installation of foam for bouncy was missed? If so, who inspected the boat and passed it?

Does the coast guard not look into actual flotation tests and they simply believe whatever the manufacturer tells them?

 

The insurance company will pay for the recovering fee.

I agree with you 100% "Running parallel to the waves in rough water is the absolute last thing you want to do as it's the easiest way for a boat to take on water and capsize."

My intention was beating to the wind by zig-zagging

[Sinker]

Were you swamped from the side, or the transom?

 

S.