How to get the PMs attention new rules for all Canadians

[DRIFTER_016]

(Where's the popcorn emotion?)

This one?

 

[outllaw]

twocoda.. can i insert once again leadership lacks. when years back the folks that decided to net swt clair carryweapons. when asked they stateed thats for whomever ttries to stop them. the rez wholesales smokes . they even shoot at passing freighters with deer rifles. ask the marine division of opp in essex kent. thats why i canot see without effective leadership f.nation folks get a black eye. bye no means am i a biased fellow. i have blood from generations past and thru marriage.. we cant have a two tiered system. theres plenty more i wont attempt to put on the net.. good luck i truly hope theres resolve.

[chris.brock]

sugar coat it all you want....it still doesnt change the facts and the taxpayers are pissed off period...

 

My wife and me are big taxpayers (too much tax really), I'm pissed about gov't corruption and money wasting, and the link between big business and gov't officials scratching each other's backs, while our planet goes down the toilet

 

I guess you can't assume all taxpayer's mindset.

 

You bet they're pissed off---cause as a taxpayer I did'nt sign up to remove all the environmenmtal protections just so some oil company can improve their bottom line

 

How's that for a sugar coat??

 

right on,

 

what's a new pipeline do for me? what's a new pipeline do for Enbridge, Trans Can. CEOs?

[Cookslav]

So after a bit more research on Dr Pam Palmater...

 

No offence but she's as scambled as the movement?

She's speaking out against the governments supposed plan to "make provisions" that Would allow the government to remove someones "status" and "remove treaty rights"....but she gives no specifics as to who, or which treaty?

 

She talkes about the "offence" our government commits when addressing the Nation in public by calling the people Canadians....in her oppinion it should be "First Nations & Canadian peoples"...that pretty much make sick.

 

I'm just being 100% honest hear but no matter how hard I look and no matter how much I read

There is a serious lack of direction for this movement and I do think despite a few vocal folks most of Canada is getting a bit sick of this mix mash of protests that no one seems to understand.

 

I suppose I could agree with some concerns from an enviromental stand point, but then again....is that the movements objective???

Nope....its only a fraction of the platform.

 

I think the good Dr. Palmater is far more intersted in running for national chief of the Assembly of First Nations then the movemnet itself if you ask me.

Which is ironic....considering her "anti politcs" speak.

Its just odd that someone so against the system seems to want in so bad

 

I'm trying...But I just can't get on board with this movement because I think its poorly conceived, poorly planned and VERY poorly communicated.

 

Maybe I'm bias...

I'm not a big Native affairs Backer to be blunt...

I'm not a racist heck I don't hate anyone.

But where I sit when I watch the news 90% of the people protesting are between the ages of myself, and my parents....I'm sorry but I just don't think anyone in those generations have anything more owed to them then we have currently in place as far as Treaty agreements, and the social benefits we all enjoy(such as healthcare etc.)

 

ANY financial or social assistance no matter how small....is still a perk.

Free schooling, not having to pay taxes...cripes sign me up I'll take it if its offered.

If there is a right that was promised that is being taken away then that is a different story.

I say lets hear it...in specifics, with easily obtained sources and something substanciated....I'm all ears and my mind is open...sell me on the cause.

 

I don't know, I guess I'm just kinda frustrated at the whole situation.

Call me what you want...I don't mind

I just don't think ANYONE in this country deserves any more then what me or my kids are entitled to based on what race, creed or color or age you are.

 

If it were up to me...No one would pay tax, and we'd all live a happy life in the country doing what we like to do, when we want to do it. But thats a pipe dream....

So given the choice I'd say anyone getting anything from the system should pay taxes, should vote and have a say....and thats that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jay from North Bay]

Maybe you haven't done enough research?

 

Then you come up with this? "most of Canada is getting a bit sick of this mix mash of protest". Where is your proof of this?

 

Heck most Canadians are push-overs, that is why our government gets away with everything.Are they angry at the fact that someone actually has the balls to protest their rights?

 

If you dont beleive that the Natives who got their land stolen from them, should have no extra rights? That is your purogative. But dont speak for all Canadians.

 

Heck most Canadians weren't too happy when European immigrants came over and changed their lifestyle. And they had a point.

 

The rest of what you stated are separate issues. Lets not start talking about apples when we are talking about oranges.

 

I think they just want to keep their way of living intact, just like the quebecors want to be recognized as a distinct society.

 

By the way. This is Johnny Bass using a buddies account. Over and out.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Jay from North Bay

[Oggie]

This First Nation Chieff sounds like a breath of fresh air given the confusion around the Idle No More movement. He is industrious and holds his people accountable. I liked what I read.

Dan O.

 

Chief Clarence Louie, Osoyoos, BC, speaking in Northern Alberta :

Speaking to a large aboriginal conference and some of the attendees, including a few who hold high office, have straggled in.

'I can't stand people who are late, he says into the microphone. Indian Time doesn't cut it. '
Some giggle, but no one is quite sure how far he is going to go. Just sit back and listen:

'My first rule for success is Show up on time.'
'My No. 2 rule for success is follow Rule No. 1.'
'If your life sucks, it's because you suck.'
'Quit your sniffling.'
'Join the real world. Go to school, or get a job.'
'Get off of welfare. Get off your butt.'

He pauses, seeming to gauge whether he dare, then does.
'People often say to me, How you doin'? Geez I'm working with Indians what do you think?'
Now they are openly laughing ..... applauding. Clarence Louie is everything that was advertised and more.

'Our ancestors worked for a living, he says. So should you.'

He is, fortunately, aboriginal himself. If someone else stood up and said these things - the white columnist standing there with his mouth open, for example - you'd be seen as a racist. Instead, Chief Clarence Louie is seen, increasingly, as one of the most interesting and innovative native leaders in the country even though he avoids national politics.

He has come here to Fort McMurray because the aboriginal community needs, desperately, to start talking about economic development and what all this multibillion-dollar oil madness might mean, for good and for bad.

Clarence Louie is chief and CEO of the Osoyoos Band in British Columbia's South Okanagan. He is 44 years old, though he looks like he would have been an infant when he began his remarkable 20-year-run as chief.. He took a band that had been declared bankrupt and taken over by Indian Affairs and he has turned in into an inspiration.

In 2000, the band set a goal of becoming self-sufficient in five years. They're there.

The Osoyoos, 432 strong, own, among other things, a vineyard, a winery, a golf course and a tourist resort, and they are partners in the Baldy Mountain ski development. They have more businesses per capita than any other first nation in Canada.

There are not only enough jobs for everyone, there are so many jobs being created that there are now members of 13 other tribal communities working for the Osoyoos. The little band contributes $40-million a year to the area economy.

Chief Louie is tough. He is as proud of the fact that his band fires its own people as well as hires them. He has his mottos posted throughout the Rez. He believes there is no such thing as consensus, that there will always be those who disagree. And, he says, he is milquetoast compared to his own mother when it comes to how today's lazy aboriginal youth, almost exclusively male, should be dealt with.

Rent a plane, she told him, and fly them all to Iraq. Dump'em off and all the ones who make it back are keepers. Right on, Mom.
The message he has brought here to the Chipewyan, Dene and Cree who live around the oil sands is equally direct: 'Get involved, create jobs and meaningful jobs, not just window dressing for the oil companies.'

'The biggest employer,' he says, 'shouldn't be the band office.'

He also says the time has come to get over it. 'No more whining about 100-year-old failed experiments.' 'No foolishly looking to the Queen to protect rights.'

Louie says aboriginals here and along the Mackenzie Valley should not look at any sharing in development as rocking-chair money but as investment opportunity to create sustainable businesses. He wants them to move beyond entry-level jobs to real jobs they earn all the way to the boardrooms. He wants to see business manners develop: showing up on time, working extra hours. The business lunch, he says, should be drive through, and then right back at it.

'You're going to lose your language and culture faster in poverty than you will in economic development', he says to those who say he is ignoring tradition.

Tough talk, at times shocking talk given the audience, but on this day in this community, they took it and, judging by the response, they loved it.

Eighty per cent like what I have to say, Louie says, twenty per cent don't. I always say to the 20 per cent, 'Get over it.' 'Chances are you're never going to see me again and I'm never going to see you again' 'Get some counseling.'

The first step, he says, is all about leadership. He prides himself on being a stay-home chief who looks after the potholes in his own backyard and wastes no time running around fighting 100-year-old battles.

'The biggest challenge will be how you treat your own people.'

'Blaming government? That time is overChief Clarence Louie, Osoyoos, BC, speaking in Northern Alberta :

Speaking to a large aboriginal conference and some of the attendees, including a few who hold high office, have straggled in.

'I can't stand people who are late, he says into the microphone. Indian Time doesn't cut it. '
Some giggle, but no one is quite sure how far he is going to go. Just sit back and listen:

'My first rule for success is Show up on time.'
'My No. 2 rule for success is follow Rule No. 1.'
'If your life sucks, it's because you suck.'
'Quit your sniffling.'
'Join the real world. Go to school, or get a job.'
'Get off of welfare. Get off your butt.'

He pauses, seeming to gauge whether he dare, then does.
'People often say to me, How you doin'? Geez I'm working with Indians what do you think?'
Now they are openly laughing ..... applauding. Clarence Louie is everything that was advertised and more.

'Our ancestors worked for a living, he says. So should you.'

He is, fortunately, aboriginal himself. If someone else stood up and said these things - the white columnist standing there with his mouth open, for example - you'd be seen as a racist. Instead, Chief Clarence Louie is seen, increasingly, as one of the most interesting and innovative native leaders in the country even though he avoids national politics.

He has come here to Fort McMurray because the aboriginal community needs, desperately, to start talking about economic development and what all this multibillion-dollar oil madness might mean, for good and for bad.

Clarence Louie is chief and CEO of the Osoyoos Band in British Columbia's South Okanagan. He is 44 years old, though he looks like he would have been an infant when he began his remarkable 20-year-run as chief.. He took a band that had been declared bankrupt and taken over by Indian Affairs and he has turned in into an inspiration.

In 2000, the band set a goal of becoming self-sufficient in five years. They're there.

The Osoyoos, 432 strong, own, among other things, a vineyard, a winery, a golf course and a tourist resort, and they are partners in the Baldy Mountain ski development. They have more businesses per capita than any other first nation in Canada.

There are not only enough jobs for everyone, there are so many jobs being created that there are now members of 13 other tribal communities working for the Osoyoos. The little band contributes $40-million a year to the area economy.

Chief Louie is tough. He is as proud of the fact that his band fires its own people as well as hires them. He has his mottos posted throughout the Rez. He believes there is no such thing as consensus, that there will always be those who disagree. And, he says, he is milquetoast compared to his own mother when it comes to how today's lazy aboriginal youth, almost exclusively male, should be dealt with.

Rent a plane, she told him, and fly them all to Iraq. Dump'em off and all the ones who make it back are keepers. Right on, Mom.
The message he has brought here to the Chipewyan, Dene and Cree who live around the oil sands is equally direct: 'Get involved, create jobs and meaningful jobs, not just window dressing for the oil companies.'

'The biggest employer,' he says, 'shouldn't be the band office.'

He also says the time has come to get over it. 'No more whining about 100-year-old failed experiments.' 'No foolishly looking to the Queen to protect rights.'

Louie says aboriginals here and along the Mackenzie Valley should not look at any sharing in development as rocking-chair money but as investment opportunity to create sustainable businesses. He wants them to move beyond entry-level jobs to real jobs they earn all the way to the boardrooms. He wants to see business manners develop: showing up on time, working extra hours. The business lunch, he says, should be drive through, and then right back at it.

'You're going to lose your language and culture faster in poverty than you will in economic development', he says to those who say he is ignoring tradition.

Tough talk, at times shocking talk given the audience, but on this day in this community, they took it and, judging by the response, they loved it.

Eighty per cent like what I have to say, Louie says, twenty per cent don't. I always say to the 20 per cent, 'Get over it.' 'Chances are you're never going to see me again and I'm never going to see you again' 'Get some counseling.'

The first step, he says, is all about leadership. He prides himself on being a stay-home chief who looks after the potholes in his own backyard and wastes no time running around fighting 100-year-old battles.

'The biggest challenge will be how you treat your own people.'

'Blaming government? That time is overChief Clarence Louie, Osoyoos, BC, speaking in Northern Alberta :

Speaking to a large aboriginal conference and some of the attendees, including a few who hold high office, have straggled in.

'I can't stand people who are late, he says into the microphone. Indian Time doesn't cut it. '
Some giggle, but no one is quite sure how far he is going to go. Just sit back and listen:

'My first rule for success is Show up on time.'
'My No. 2 rule for success is follow Rule No. 1.'
'If your life sucks, it's because you suck.'
'Quit your sniffling.'
'Join the real world. Go to school, or get a job.'
'Get off of welfare. Get off your butt.'

He pauses, seeming to gauge whether he dare, then does.
'People often say to me, How you doin'? Geez I'm working with Indians what do you think?'
Now they are openly laughing ..... applauding. Clarence Louie is everything that was advertised and more.

'Our ancestors worked for a living, he says. So should you.'

He is, fortunately, aboriginal himself. If someone else stood up and said these things - the white columnist standing there with his mouth open, for example - you'd be seen as a racist. Instead, Chief Clarence Louie is seen, increasingly, as one of the most interesting and innovative native leaders in the country even though he avoids national politics.

He has come here to Fort McMurray because the aboriginal community needs, desperately, to start talking about economic development and what all this multibillion-dollar oil madness might mean, for good and for bad.

Clarence Louie is chief and CEO of the Osoyoos Band in British Columbia's South Okanagan. He is 44 years old, though he looks like he would have been an infant when he began his remarkable 20-year-run as chief.. He took a band that had been declared bankrupt and taken over by Indian Affairs and he has turned in into an inspiration.

In 2000, the band set a goal of becoming self-sufficient in five years. They're there.

The Osoyoos, 432 strong, own, among other things, a vineyard, a winery, a golf course and a tourist resort, and they are partners in the Baldy Mountain ski development. They have more businesses per capita than any other first nation in Canada.

There are not only enough jobs for everyone, there are so many jobs being created that there are now members of 13 other tribal communities working for the Osoyoos. The little band contributes $40-million a year to the area economy.

Chief Louie is tough. He is as proud of the fact that his band fires its own people as well as hires them. He has his mottos posted throughout the Rez. He believes there is no such thing as consensus, that there will always be those who disagree. And, he says, he is milquetoast compared to his own mother when it comes to how today's lazy aboriginal youth, almost exclusively male, should be dealt with.

Rent a plane, she told him, and fly them all to Iraq. Dump'em off and all the ones who make it back are keepers. Right on, Mom.
The message he has brought here to the Chipewyan, Dene and Cree who live around the oil sands is equally direct: 'Get involved, create jobs and meaningful jobs, not just window dressing for the oil companies.'

'The biggest employer,' he says, 'shouldn't be the band office.'

He also says the time has come to get over it. 'No more whining about 100-year-old failed experiments.' 'No foolishly looking to the Queen to protect rights.'

Louie says aboriginals here and along the Mackenzie Valley should not look at any sharing in development as rocking-chair money but as investment opportunity to create sustainable businesses. He wants them to move beyond entry-level jobs to real jobs they earn all the way to the boardrooms. He wants to see business manners develop: showing up on time, working extra hours. The business lunch, he says, should be drive through, and then right back at it.

'You're going to lose your language and culture faster in poverty than you will in economic development', he says to those who say he is ignoring tradition.

Tough talk, at times shocking talk given the audience, but on this day in this community, they took it and, judging by the response, they loved it.

Eighty per cent like what I have to say, Louie says, twenty per cent don't. I always say to the 20 per cent, 'Get over it.' 'Chances are you're never going to see me again and I'm never going to see you again' 'Get some counseling.'

The first step, he says, is all about leadership. He prides himself on being a stay-home chief who looks after the potholes in his own backyard and wastes no time running around fighting 100-year-old battles.

'The biggest challenge will be how you treat your own people.'

'Blaming government? That time is overChief Clarence Louie, Osoyoos, BC, speaking in Northern Alberta :

Speaking to a large aboriginal conference and some of the attendees, including a few who hold high office, have straggled in.

'I can't stand people who are late, he says into the microphone. Indian Time doesn't cut it. '
Some giggle, but no one is quite sure how far he is going to go. Just sit back and listen:

'My first rule for success is Show up on time.'
'My No. 2 rule for success is follow Rule No. 1.'
'If your life sucks, it's because you suck.'
'Quit your sniffling.'
'Join the real world. Go to school, or get a job.'
'Get off of welfare. Get off your butt.'

He pauses, seeming to gauge whether he dare, then does.
'People often say to me, How you doin'? Geez I'm working with Indians what do you think?'
Now they are openly laughing ..... applauding. Clarence Louie is everything that was advertised and more.

'Our ancestors worked for a living, he says. So should you.'

He is, fortunately, aboriginal himself. If someone else stood up and said these things - the white columnist standing there with his mouth open, for example - you'd be seen as a racist. Instead, Chief Clarence Louie is seen, increasingly, as one of the most interesting and innovative native leaders in the country even though he avoids national politics.

He has come here to Fort McMurray because the aboriginal community needs, desperately, to start talking about economic development and what all this multibillion-dollar oil madness might mean, for good and for bad.

Clarence Louie is chief and CEO of the Osoyoos Band in British Columbia's South Okanagan. He is 44 years old, though he looks like he would have been an infant when he began his remarkable 20-year-run as chief.. He took a band that had been declared bankrupt and taken over by Indian Affairs and he has turned in into an inspiration.

In 2000, the band set a goal of becoming self-sufficient in five years. They're there.

The Osoyoos, 432 strong, own, among other things, a vineyard, a winery, a golf course and a tourist resort, and they are partners in the Baldy Mountain ski development. They have more businesses per capita than any other first nation in Canada.

There are not only enough jobs for everyone, there are so many jobs being created that there are now members of 13 other tribal communities working for the Osoyoos. The little band contributes $40-million a year to the area economy.

Chief Louie is tough. He is as proud of the fact that his band fires its own people as well as hires them. He has his mottos posted throughout the Rez. He believes there is no such thing as consensus, that there will always be those who disagree. And, he says, he is milquetoast compared to his own mother when it comes to how today's lazy aboriginal youth, almost exclusively male, should be dealt with.

Rent a plane, she told him, and fly them all to Iraq. Dump'em off and all the ones who make it back are keepers. Right on, Mom.
The message he has brought here to the Chipewyan, Dene and Cree who live around the oil sands is equally direct: 'Get involved, create jobs and meaningful jobs, not just window dressing for the oil companies.'

'The biggest employer,' he says, 'shouldn't be the band office.'

He also says the time has come to get over it. 'No more whining about 100-year-old failed experiments.' 'No foolishly looking to the Queen to protect rights.'

Louie says aboriginals here and along the Mackenzie Valley should not look at any sharing in development as rocking-chair money but as investment opportunity to create sustainable businesses. He wants them to move beyond entry-level jobs to real jobs they earn all the way to the boardrooms. He wants to see business manners develop: showing up on time, working extra hours. The business lunch, he says, should be drive through, and then right back at it.

'You're going to lose your language and culture faster in poverty than you will in economic development', he says to those who say he is ignoring tradition.

Tough talk, at times shocking talk given the audience, but on this day in this community, they took it and, judging by the response, they loved it.

Eighty per cent like what I have to say, Louie says, twenty per cent don't. I always say to the 20 per cent, 'Get over it.' 'Chances are you're never going to see me again and I'm never going to see you again' 'Get some counseling.'

The first step, he says, is all about leadership. He prides himself on being a stay-home chief who looks after the potholes in his own backyard and wastes no time running around fighting 100-year-old battles.

'The biggest challenge will be how you treat your own people.'

'Blaming government? That time is over!

[Twocoda]

riddle me this....whats the bigger inconvenience ? Illegal momentary blockades that affect maybe a few minutes of or life???? OR Illegal legislation by Our Government that will effect our lives indefinitely once we are raped of the resources...

Johnny Bass produced a link for Pam Palmater as she is the official spokes person for the Idle No More Movement...Watch all 4 videos... She worked for Indian Affairs for many years and is a Professor at Ryerson When she is being a spokesperson for INM listen to her words....When she is being a professor at Ryerson dont listen to her words ( unless your enrolled in her class) When she is making comments in regards to anything but is irrelevant to the INM...You seem to be semi savvy with the internet Im sure you can figure out what applies to INM and what doesnt....I hope you continue your "research" and draw an educated perception of reality past present and future

 

If you are a user of twitter ...#idleKNOWmore to educate yourself

Edited January 19, 2013 by Twocoda

[Rich Nelson]

Just wanna say thanks to the Mods for letting us discuss an important topic that effects us all. Good on you for letting us respectfully state our opinions!

[Twocoda]

twocoda.. can i insert once again leadership lacks. when years back the folks that decided to net swt clair carryweapons. when asked they stateed thats for whomever ttries to stop them. the rez wholesales smokes . they even shoot at passing freighters with deer rifles. ask the marine division of opp in essex kent. thats why i canot see without effective leadership f.nation folks get a black eye. bye no means am i a biased fellow. i have blood from generations past and thru marriage.. we cant have a two tiered system. theres plenty more i wont attempt to put on the net.. good luck i truly hope theres resolve.

i agree Leadership does lack ...Atleo in my opinion is just a go between to keep things in check....Bresleau is a Harper appointed yes man as a senator and has his own agenda to further his own career...This is why IDLE NO MORE is a grass roots movement ....Atleo couldnt handle the pressure so he is off sick for a few weeks...convenient eh?

Edited January 19, 2013 by Twocoda

[Twocoda]

Just wanna say thanks to the Mods for letting us discuss an important topic that effects us all. Good on you for letting us respectfully state our opinions!

ditto

[Cookslav]

Maybe you haven't done enough research?

 

Oh thats not it at all...

I've read way to much which is why its so frustrating.

The more I read, and learn the more I realize I'm right LOL...

The message of the movment is not clear, and a lot of the mind sets are actually quite

upseting to me.

 

I saw this video along with much more...

But I'll give you my commentary LOL...

 

So she opens the video speaking about The Harper Government....and I quote

 

"their solotary objective, their policy objectives for first nations has never changed from the time they developed it in the 1800's until now on the books, the number one objective is to continue until there is not a single indian left in Canada.

And with that goes the treaties and reserve land and everything else."

 

She speaks of Provisions the government has made in Bill c-45 in which the Government seeks to eliminate Indians, treaties and reserves as a whole.....thats a big accusation.

Where is the proof?

Where is the source?

Where is this written?

Seriously...this is just smoke and mirrors, nothing but smoke and mirrors.

 

 

She alledges Indian Affairs is given "$9 Billion annually" from the Federal government But 50% pays for the Indian Affair employee salaries.

Ok lets just say for the time being that this is true....

You do realize despite the gross misallowcation of funds that even if her stats are correct and Half the $9 billion is spent on office salarys thats still leaves $4.5 billion dollars in funding that Natives are recieving.

I hate to burst her buble but lets put some common sence to her comments.

$9 Billion= 50% for fat cat salarys =$4.5 Billion divided by 6000 employees(her stats)

Well folks that equals $750,000/ year/ employee

I think her math a bit unrealistic.

 

She's a great motivational speaker, but her delivery on Facts is in need of some polishing.

 

Now here is a quote that got under my skin....

 

"We're not on a Nation to Nation Basis"

 

She's right...100% right

If first Nations were on an equal "NATION" basis why would we even be arguing about the level, effectiveness or missallowcation of CANADIAN Tax dollar funding

The we as CANADA are giving to first Nations people????

 

Thats like my Neighbor borrowing money for the 5th or 6th time to heat his home and then having him complain that I didn't lend him enough, when he's never paid me back from before, nor does he ever intend to?

 

The good doctor goes on to say the Average cheif gets

Paid only $36K/year (unless your in attawapiskat of course) vs the average "Canadian"

salary of $46K as if they are somehow hard done by.

First I'd point out that I can't verfiy her stats and secondly

I'd like to point out the Average Canadian is not paid in Tax dollars and after they pay income tax that cheif will make MORE then the average "Canadian"

Oh and by the way the Average "Canadian" is PAYING that Salary with their taxes.

 

She goes on to talk about how apparently the Cheifs and senior community leaders have "Absolutley no control of the funding models" and no say in how the money is spent and claims their budgets will be slashed if they complain out of spite....

She then admits there are probematic leaders in the community but thats Their business, and they have methods to deal with them.

She finishes with a bomb shell....and I quote

"We don't need Canada interfearing"

 

So let me get this strait.....She's complaining that they have no control over how much or where they spend the $9 billion dollars of CANADIAN FUNDING they recieve, but in the same sentence says Canada should mind their own business???

 

She then critiques the media as a whole for painting the cheifs as being corrupt and wasting money, and blames the Government for setting up a smear campaign, but neglects to mention how Indian Affairs has also used the Media's Cameras in places like Attawapiskat to point out poor living conditions....and how they plastered smear campaigns on TV's across Canada with accusations of government corruption and neglect. But then when the government decides to step in and investigate the accusations the good Doctor has the audacity to say

"We don't need Canada interfearing"

 

Here is a simple question for the supporters of this movement...

Are First Nations people Canadian Citizens or not?

Are they enjoying the roads, healthcare, education etc...

I don't care if you want to revoke citizenship....just don't complain that you're not getting your fair share of my tax dollars if your not even willing to be called a Canadian Citizen.

Thats a huge disconnect in my books.

 

I also love the saber rattleing...

"We didn't sign treaties with harper, we signed them with the queen"

Firstly...what Treaty are we talking about, what proposed changes is the Harper government attempting and more importently if she's going to get pushy.

I'd like to remind her that actually.....SHE didn't sign any treaty.

Perhaps her Great, Great, Great....Great grandparents did some signing.

Back that was also back when the Queen ran this land, which she no longer does.

So her saber rattleing quarel is irrelevant.

 

Then there is this Navigable water act change, and the referance to strip mining....

I guess she'd have us beleive the change to the act is directly related to strip mining.

WHERE....how is this applicable?

WHY....where is the corelation?

I neither agree nor disagree with her concern here....I simply don't understand her concern. She'd get a bit more suport with some examples, or actual facts.

Right now she's simply lumping in another topic to argue with out any sunstanciall proof of intent or examples.

 

 

The rest of what you stated are separate issues. Lets not start talking about apples when we are talking about oranges.

Are we though...are we talking different issues?

Thats kinda my point???

Are the protests just about Dr. Palmater's movment and her many oppinions?

Is that all The natives are protesting?

It just seems the protest has become about pretty much any issue that could contain the word native, or Indian, and its lacking direction and leadership.

And alienating the First Nations people from "Canadians" reeeeeely does not seem like a smart move to me....

 

I'll give her the nod of approval on one point....

I share her beleif that all governments are corupt, be it a Native chief, Liberal, conservative, NDP provincal, municiple or Federal cronny.

They are all crooks and need to be watched, so fo those who are in this protest as a watch dog I Applaud you, but the Movment it's self is not well thought out.

I stand behind my earlier statement that there are ALOT of people out there who are not understanding this movement, not supporting it and sick of it.

I'm not speaking for all Canadians, but I know the protest is not as well recieved as you might think....you want proof....I can't give it, but then again can you prove me wrong....nope.

 

Funny thing about oppinions....everyone has one.

[spincast]

I participated in the protest in Windsor and I'm not a member of the First Nations, but I do support their calls for being at the table to discuss the effect of Bill C-45. They should have been part of the consultation process as we all should have. I have attended many consultations at Municipal, Provincial and Federal over the years. However for the last decade there have been many changes at all levels of governments which are nothing more that a photo opportunity where they only go through the motions after decisions have been made. A lot of Canadians have given up voting at election time and a majority only get out at election time to support their favourite party but do little in between other than to complain. There is a lot of damage being done by our complacency, whether or not you agree with me or not I still have the right to protest against what I think is wrong. And as for those who claim to know what their fathers, uncles, brothers, mothers or sisters fought for, I don't believe they fought for a government that continues to take away our democratic rights because of ideology. Take a look at the link and compare this to the occassional tire burnings that some have complained about and ask yourself, who's fooling who?

 

 

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/photos-destructive-canada-oil-sands-2012-10?op=1

[bushart]

For those who still do NOT know what Idle is about....

 

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/opinion/op-ed/Idle+More/7753967/story.html

 

Also remember one truth-----little divise sidetracking snippets put forth by certain Gov't agencies are 1st meant to interject doubt--questions and divisions

 

As long as fingers are pointed at Chief Spence---or Caledonia------The Federal Gov't agenda is not getting the scrutiny---and quietly keeps hacking---all while the population argues on the points thrown out to play red herring

 

Hey Taxpayers.......Ever wonder why Longshanks and the rest of the Cons MP's--tip toe on F35 spending---always careful to say they have not spent anything on jet purchases----cause they don't wish to broadcast that they've spent near One Billion on acquisition costs-------of a plane you may not even get.

 

Why do I write this???-------Cause if many wish to show outrage on taxpayers dollar spending-------it would be fair to not cherry pick a favourite whipping boy and know it all.

[mr blizzard]

 

 

Oh thats not it at all...

I've read way to much which is why its so frustrating.

The more I read, and learn the more I realize I'm right LOL...

The message of the movment is not clear, and a lot of the mind sets are actually quite

upseting to me.

 

I saw this video along with much more...

But I'll give you my commentary LOL...

 

So she opens the video speaking about The Harper Government....and I quote

 

"their solotary objective, their policy objectives for first nations has never changed from the time they developed it in the 1800's until now on the books, the number one objective is to continue until there is not a single indian left in Canada.

And with that goes the treaties and reserve land and everything else."

 

She speaks of Provisions the government has made in Bill c-45 in which the Government seeks to eliminate Indians, treaties and reserves as a whole.....thats a big accusation.

Where is the proof?

Where is the source?

Where is this written?

Seriously...this is just smoke and mirrors, nothing but smoke and mirrors.

 

 

She alledges Indian Affairs is given "$9 Billion annually" from the Federal government But 50% pays for the Indian Affair employee salaries.

Ok lets just say for the time being that this is true....

You do realize despite the gross misallowcation of funds that even if her stats are correct and Half the $9 billion is spent on office salarys thats still leaves $4.5 billion dollars in funding that Natives are recieving.

I hate to burst her buble but lets put some common sence to her comments.

$9 Billion= 50% for fat cat salarys =$4.5 Billion divided by 6000 employees(her stats)

Well folks that equals $750,000/ year/ employee

I think her math a bit unrealistic.

 

She's a great motivational speaker, but her delivery on Facts is in need of some polishing.

 

Now here is a quote that got under my skin....

 

"We're not on a Nation to Nation Basis"

 

She's right...100% right

If first Nations were on an equal "NATION" basis why would we even be arguing about the level, effectiveness or missallowcation of CANADIAN Tax dollar funding

The we as CANADA are giving to first Nations people????

 

Thats like my Neighbor borrowing money for the 5th or 6th time to heat his home and then having him complain that I didn't lend him enough, when he's never paid me back from before, nor does he ever intend to?

 

The good doctor goes on to say the Average cheif gets

Paid only $36K/year (unless your in attawapiskat of course) vs the average "Canadian"

salary of $46K as if they are somehow hard done by.

First I'd point out that I can't verfiy her stats and secondly

I'd like to point out the Average Canadian is not paid in Tax dollars and after they pay income tax that cheif will make MORE then the average "Canadian"

Oh and by the way the Average "Canadian" is PAYING that Salary with their taxes.

 

She goes on to talk about how apparently the Cheifs and senior community leaders have "Absolutley no control of the funding models" and no say in how the money is spent and claims their budgets will be slashed if they complain out of spite....

She then admits there are probematic leaders in the community but thats Their business, and they have methods to deal with them.

She finishes with a bomb shell....and I quote

"We don't need Canada interfearing"

So let me get this strait.....She's complaining that they have no control over how much or where they spend the $9 billion dollars of CANADIAN FUNDING they recieve, but in the same sentence says Canada should mind their own business???

 

She then critiques the media as a whole for painting the cheifs as being corrupt and wasting money, and blames the Government for setting up a smear campaign, but neglects to mention how Indian Affairs has also used the Media's Cameras in places like Attawapiskat to point out poor living conditions....and how they plastered smear campaigns on TV's across Canada with accusations of government corruption and neglect. But then when the government decides to step in and investigate the accusations the good Doctor has the audacity to say

"We don't need Canada interfearing"

Here is a simple question for the supporters of this movement...

Are First Nations people Canadian Citizens or not?

Are they enjoying the roads, healthcare, education etc...

I don't care if you want to revoke citizenship....just don't complain that you're not getting your fair share of my tax dollars if your not even willing to be called a Canadian Citizen.

Thats a huge disconnect in my books.

 

I also love the saber rattleing...

"We didn't sign treaties with harper, we signed them with the queen"

Firstly...what Treaty are we talking about, what proposed changes is the Harper government attempting and more importently if she's going to get pushy.

I'd like to remind her that actually.....SHE didn't sign any treaty.

Perhaps her Great, Great, Great....Great grandparents did some signing.

Back that was also back when the Queen ran this land, which she no longer does.

So her saber rattleing quarel is irrelevant.

 

Then there is this Navigable water act change, and the referance to strip mining....

I guess she'd have us beleive the change to the act is directly related to strip mining.

WHERE....how is this applicable?

WHY....where is the corelation?

I neither agree nor disagree with her concern here....I simply don't understand her concern. She'd get a bit more suport with some examples, or actual facts.

Right now she's simply lumping in another topic to argue with out any sunstanciall proof of intent or examples.

 

 

Are we though...are we talking different issues?

Thats kinda my point???

Are the protests just about Dr. Palmater's movment and her many oppinions?

Is that all The natives are protesting?

It just seems the protest has become about pretty much any issue that could contain the word native, or Indian, and its lacking direction and leadership.

And alienating the First Nations people from "Canadians" reeeeeely does not seem like a smart move to me....

 

I'll give her the nod of approval on one point....

I share her beleif that all governments are corupt, be it a Native chief, Liberal, conservative, NDP provincal, municiple or Federal cronny.

They are all crooks and need to be watched, so fo those who are in this protest as a watch dog I Applaud you, but the Movment it's self is not well thought out.

I stand behind my earlier statement that there are ALOT of people out there who are not understanding this movement, not supporting it and sick of it.

I'm not speaking for all Canadians, but I know the protest is not as well recieved as you might think....you want proof....I can't give it, but then again can you prove me wrong....nope.

 

Funny thing about oppinions....everyone has one.

Well said

[rmarentette]

For those who still do NOT know what Idle is about....

 

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/opinion/op-ed/Idle+More/7753967/story.html

 

Also remember one truth-----little divise sidetracking snippets put forth by certain Gov't agencies are 1st meant to interject doubt--questions and divisions

 

As long as fingers are pointed at Chief Spence---or Caledonia------The Federal Gov't agenda is not getting the scrutiny---and quietly keeps hacking---all while the population argues on the points thrown out to play red herring

 

Hey Taxpayers.......Ever wonder why Longshanks and the rest of the Cons MP's--tip toe on F35 spending---always careful to say they have not spent anything on jet purchases----cause they don't wish to broadcast that they've spent near One Billion on acquisition costs-------of a plane you may not even get.

 

Why do I write this???-------Cause if many wish to show outrage on taxpayers dollar spending-------it would be fair to not cherry pick a favourite whipping boy and know it all.

Better well said!!!!!!

[Lunker Larry]

When you read this, please do so as if it is a calm, casual conversation. The tone of intent is often lost in an e-mail. Cudos to the first nation guys who have not been baited and have discussed and argued their points very well. However, something that comes up regularly in the media is how native issues are presented by many first nations and how it may come across to the non native populace. I personally find it hard to take someone seriously when they are talking about spirits, mother earth, eagles, crows, ancestors and such and do it to the beat of annoying drums. It seems everyone wants to talk like Chief Dan George in a Clint Eastwood movie. Join the 21st century. If someone is going to speak in the news, tailor it the modern era and maybe someone will take it seriously. Good or bad the past is past. Yes, treaties were signed hundreds of years ago when no one knew how this country was going to form, but there is no way in hell the population of CANADA is going to step aside and hand it over.Things are coming to a head but the major issues are getting lost. Chief Spencer is doing one thing, Idle no more another, and the militant western crowd another. Get rid of the infighting. Find someone who can stand up and speak, not dressed like they are from the 1700s, and maybe more people will stop and take a second serious look at what is being said and not gaff it off as just another complaining indian. Sad to say, image is key in these modern times. You have to influence more than the hippies and free spirits. Blockades and public violence just makes people automatically dig in their heals. I wish I had the answers. I wish it was as simple as both sides getting together to retune expectations to the modern age.

I have been a supporter of the Harper govt. Anything was better than the liberal goofballs of the previous govt, but, I have to say Harper has pissed in the pickles this time with the new bill and his handling of Atawapiskat and such. They've gotten too pompous patting themselves on the back for surviving the financial crash and are too myopic in their view of where the country should go financially.

[DoubleDigits]

Wheres the section for caucasian people? or asian people? The aboriginals shouldn't get any benefit whatsoever compared to any other Canadian.

What a spectacularly foolish question this is, right here...

[bushart]

When you read this, please do so as if it is a calm, casual conversation. The tone of intent is often lost in an e-mail. Cudos to the first nation guys who have not been baited and have discussed and argued their points very well. However, something that comes up regularly in the media is how native issues are presented by many first nations and how it may come across to the non native populace. I personally find it hard to take someone seriously when they are talking about spirits, mother earth, eagles, crows, ancestors and such and do it to the beat of annoying drums. It seems everyone wants to talk like Chief Dan George in a Clint Eastwood movie. Join the 21st century. If someone is going to speak in the news, tailor it the modern era and maybe someone will take it seriously. Good or bad the past is past. Yes, treaties were signed hundreds of years ago when no one knew how this country was going to form, but there is no way in hell the population of CANADA is going to step aside and hand it over.Things are coming to a head but the major issues are getting lost. Chief Spencer is doing one thing, Idle no more another, and the militant western crowd another. Get rid of the infighting. Find someone who can stand up and speak, not dressed like they are from the 1700s, and maybe more people will stop and take a second serious look at what is being said and not gaff it off as just another complaining indian. Sad to say, image is key in these modern times. You have to influence more than the hippies and free spirits. Blockades and public violence just makes people automatically dig in their heals. I wish I had the answers. I wish it was as simple as both sides getting together to retune expectations to the modern age.

I have been a supporter of the Harper govt. Anything was better than the liberal goofballs of the previous govt, but, I have to say Harper has pissed in the pickles this time with the new bill and his handling of Atawapiskat and such. They've gotten too pompous patting themselves on the back for surviving the financial crash and are too myopic in their view of where the country should go financially.

 

Couple things....You mention the appearance...The Chief Dan George look---circa 1700

 

FYI----I lived on several Reserves between 79--81 in Western Canada (North)---not really that long ago most would agree

 

You would be surprised at some of the elders that struggled greatly with English---I communicated with some elderly people more with pointing---They spoke either Cree or Chipewyan.

 

I again am not FN---posted there with The Hudson's Bay Co.

 

You mention violence in current blockades-----have'nt heard this in the idle no more movement---comments like that may get inflammatory to a general populace

[rmarentette]

When you read this, please do so as if it is a calm, casual conversation. The tone of intent is often lost in an e-mail. Cudos to the first nation guys who have not been baited and have discussed and argued their points very well. However, something that comes up regularly in the media is how native issues are presented by many first nations and how it may come across to the non native populace. I personally find it hard to take someone seriously when they are talking about spirits, mother earth, eagles, crows, ancestors and such and do it to the beat of annoying drums. It seems everyone wants to talk like Chief Dan George in a Clint Eastwood movie. Join the 21st century. If someone is going to speak in the news, tailor it the modern era and maybe someone will take it seriously. Good or bad the past is past. Yes, treaties were signed hundreds of years ago when no one knew how this country was going to form, but there is no way in hell the population of CANADA is going to step aside and hand it over.Things are coming to a head but the major issues are getting lost. Chief Spencer is doing one thing, Idle no more another, and the militant western crowd another. Get rid of the infighting. Find someone who can stand up and speak, not dressed like they are from the 1700s, and maybe more people will stop and take a second serious look at what is being said and not gaff it off as just another complaining indian. Sad to say, image is key in these modern times. You have to influence more than the hippies and free spirits. Blockades and public violence just makes people automatically dig in their heals. I wish I had the answers. I wish it was as simple as both sides getting together to retune expectations to the modern age.

I have been a supporter of the Harper govt. Anything was better than the liberal goofballs of the previous govt, but, I have to say Harper has pissed in the pickles this time with the new bill and his handling of Atawapiskat and such. They've gotten too pompous patting themselves on the back for surviving the financial crash and are too myopic in their view of where the country should go financially.

If I read this correctly, if you don't present your points in a professional way, they don't have any merit. This must mean that you're more likely to be convinced by the best public relations and flashy campaigns. By this logic, if you use the right catch phrases and buzz words you can justify anything.

When the time comes when the message can only be delivered in a "rational" and "calm" manner, how do the emotional ordinary people who are affected by these issues gain credibilty? t's hard to stay calm when you feel taken advantage of and someone adds their spin to the message you're trying to present..

[Andy]

I usually tend to stay away from political discussion online, but I have to say I am really impressed with the quality with which ManitouBass2 has presented his points in this thread and it encouraged me to share some thoughts. I agree wholeheartedly with him.

 

As a hunter and fisherman and as someone who is deeply concerned about the endless pit that is Industry growth and bill C-45 among others I have to say I am favourable to the Idle no more movement.

 

I also think that the disappearance of Traditional Native Culture and in particular that of Ecological Knowledge that has been passed down from generations over thousands of years is a loss not only to them but to all Canadians. Their connection to the land and water and their devotion to protect it is something I have always admired. To see that disappear, I think, would be a shame for everyone not only to Indigenous people. I do support and understand the need for Economic growth and job creation, however I think the balance is skewed and it is an illusion to think that its rewards go back to the people. In my opinion that growth profits big-wigs in Industry and government more than it does the average Joe.

 

I also empathize with those who's routine was disrupted by the protests, but unfortunately to get your point across in today's world you need to make some sort of small impact. I would never however, condone violent protesting of any kind.

 

I have to say in this case, they have my support because I am concerned about the government's attempt to revoke laws that protect Natural Resources in this country and I am concerned about the disappearance of traditional Native culture.

 

My two cents anyway.

"and in particular that of Ecological Knowledge that has been passed down from generations over thousands of years is a loss not only to them but to all Canadians. Their connection to the land and water and their devotion to protect it is something I have always admired"

Your admiration is based on a misinformed belief.

[bushart]

Whatever your opinion of the party or the man.....

 

He was closer to this issue than many/most here

 

Information is power.....inherited anger without reasoning is a roadblock in moving forward

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2013/01/16/f-idle-no-more-paul-martin.html

 

But hey---I'm just a silly artist

 

[Oggie]

"and in particular that of Ecological Knowledge that has been passed down from generations over thousands of years is a loss not only to them but to all Canadians. Their connection to the land and water and their devotion to protect it is something I have always admired"

Your admiration is based on a misinformed belief.

Apparently there is no evidence in Archaelogical digs of First Nation villages to support the idealogy of the "Noble Savage". Native people were just as likely to overharvest and waste as the Europeans. The technology they hunted and fished with limited their ability to harvest. This is a romantic view of First Nations that is not supported by scientific data, according to a professor at the University of Guelph.

Dan O.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Oggie

[Muskieman]

I've just read this thread start to finish, glad to see that it has remained civilized , and for the most part educational and answer seeking...

 

Although, it seems that there are a few "trolls" trying to start " la chicane" , but fortunately , nobody swung back.

 

Congratulations !

 

[rmarentette]

Whatever your opinion of the party or the man.....

 

He was closer to this issue than many/most here

 

Information is power.....inherited anger without reasoning is a roadblock in moving forward

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2013/01/16/f-idle-no-more-paul-martin.html

 

But hey---I'm just a silly artist

 

nn.jpg

I'm not a Paul Martin fan, but he makes a lot of sense!

[TJQ]

I've just read this thread start to finish, glad to see that it has remained civilized , and for the most part educational and answer seeking...

 

Although, it seems that there are a few "trolls" trying to start " la chicane" , but fortunately , nobody swung back.

 

Congratulations !

 

 

Yes ... quite amazing. Lets keep it like that!