Cookslav Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Wow ! That was a good read ! Great points , well written ... I'll second that I do notice that you chose to just submit opinions though without back-up---it's all good---proof is over-rate Thats like the pot calling the kettle black, but welcome back to the debate LOL.... So Blarg i suppose you think this is ok treatment for your fellow countrymen so your wife can wear a diamond on her hand...the people affected by this are living not in caves ...but un insulated sheds with a single extention cord to supply power....this is ok with you ? watch the video But they are not fellow countryman?...are they? I thought they don't want to be called Canadian....they are a nation with in a nation being paid by Canada, but don't dare ask questions about where the money goes.... Miss Doctor Pam says "We don't need Canada interfearing" So which is it...fellow counrtyman....or freindly neighbor? Or does it even matter as long as we keep paying that $9 Billion tab each year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr blizzard Posted January 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 blarg my grandfather and uncle would be proud of your article. Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushart Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Thats like the pot calling the kettle black, but welcome back to the debate LOL.... Lets see---I've attached links from---ex-Pm's---Farmers unions----authors-----reporters---Pam Palmater---gave personal experiences I guess if you wear blue coloured glasses---it does'nt show up?? I think I was right in the 1st place though---in giving up on trying------Much of this hatred runs too deep and my energy is better spent on other items This is getting too much like I'm supposed to sway prejudice by me doing the research and those that just wish to argue sit back with age old pre-conceived notions--and fire by reflex My advice-----if you want to form an opinion----do your own research--and not let someone else form it for you---at least you will own it.---like try to pay attention with your own eyes and not what comes in a newsletter. Well Mitch and Ruby Greene----thanks for the good times I had in my youth on the banks of the Grand River--and that homemade corn soup-----I tried I guess the world really has'nt evolved as much as we had hoped. Good night Mrs. kalabash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirCranksalot Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Here's a picture for you to go with it twocoda.. Is that Harper's whole caucus or just the cabinet??? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinnerbaitking Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 I just read this thread from start to finish & Canadians are drawing from an empty pot & sometime the Funds that are being paid out need to be accounted for, it doesn't matter if it's Federal or Provincial money, there are Bands out there doing an amazing job running their community & there are ones out there that suck big time & to blame the Federal Government well I don't buy that, we should be able to make sure our Country takes care of their own but sometimes I think we worry about everywhere else more then here, when the Governments are giving that amount of money to any group be it Native Bands or Big Business or another Country I want them & they should be able to see the money is being directed as it is meant to be or stop paying & from a few responses about Ipperwash & Caledonia I have always wondered, When push comes to shove & it has in more then a few places I would think since Aboriginal Affair are Federal not Provincial why aren't the RCMP or Military involved instead of the OPP wouldn't they have more resources at hand & the Federal Government would be paying instead of the Provincial Government. My.02 Tight Lines SBK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Nelson Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 (edited) Interesting after 2 compliments---the terrorists term gets continually repeated If I was that concerned----I would jump in my vehicle---drive over to Oshweken---go into the Band Office and complain I visited 6 Nations many times as a kid---nice place Ha ha ha... Havent been there in a while have you....im sur part of it are nice, and many people there are nice, but.... Complain to the Band Office? The band office, and the six nations police are just as corrupt as the those "disturbing the peace". Ever wonder where hundreds upon hundred of pickups and SUVs stolen from the GTA and Niagara end up every year? The police and leaders sit back and watch. Do some more research on the area now. Most people have no clue what the resident of Caledonia have actually gone through.... Read it again Bushart! Edited January 23, 2013 by Bladeburner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookslav Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Thats like the pot calling the kettle black, but welcome back to the debate LOL.... Lets see---I've attached links from---ex-Pm's---Farmers unions----authors-----reporters---Pam Palmater---gave personal experiences Yep you have, But theres been a wee bit of unsubstanciated/personal oppinion as well... You know it and so do I I Suppose I could go back and copy/paste and quote it but that would be silly when its all right there in the last few pages. Its just a point to make... If you're going to throw stones at someone for not quoting sources, then be sure your not in the same glass house is all I'm saying. I'm not saying I'm any better... I'm laying out quotes and speaking to the evidence posted, but I'm also not condeming an oppinion based on the lack of a news link....its all here in the thread for the most part, or common knowledge IMO. By the way you skirted around my Question.... "Are you implying that First Nations are a Nation with in our nation and are to be considered sovereign and not Canadians?" Dr. Pam seems to be pushing this... Its a valid question... As a tax payer I think I have a right to ask if we are funding $9 Billion annually to support a sovereign nation with in Canada. I'm just curious as that idea didn't sit well with Canadians when it was put to a Quebec referendum in 1995....thats fact in the history books Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aplumma Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 It appears we are running out of Facts and are shifting to negative opinions and name calling. I will give it a chance to take an up tick before deciding on closing it. Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blarg Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/straighttalk/archives/2013/01/20130119-074514.html Now I know sun news is part of the evil empire, but only they and the national post ever seem to produce anything near balanced on this issue, in fact the national post has had several good articles, but this stroy from sun news sums up my thoughts about this fairly well. CHAEL COREN | QMI AGENCY Some random observations from the inflated media circus that is Idle No More and the politicized fitness program and detox diet that is the Chief Theresa Spence fast. The use of the word “chief.” It effectively means “mayor” and those given the title sometimes speak for only a few hundred people, and get to do so for sometimes questionable reasons. Yet they are treated by mainstream media and the authorities with a reverence that borders on the sycophantic. Can we imagine a genuinely democratically elected mayor of a Canadian town being similarly regarded by journalists and the police? When these and other Native activists are interviewed, they frequently speak of prophecies, of seventh-generation warnings, of ancient laws and supernatural predictions. They hold feathers and they recite ideas of pantheistic earth-worship. It’s a confused, confusing, sometimes entirely made-up spirituality and one that is often absurdly ahistorical. Imagine, for a moment, followers of Jesus, for example, holding a crucifix and basing their arguments on an embellished and unreliable interpretation of Christian fundamentalism. They’d be laughed out of the studio, told to separate church and state, ordered to change with the times. And to a large extent the condemnation would be correct. It’s the racism of lowered expectations of course, where Natives are treated like children by white liberals who seldom venture beyond the comfort of the launch-and-lunch party. The same applies to some of the headdresses and costumes worn by Native activists that have no origin in their own tribe, and actually belong to people from 1,000 miles away. It’s cultural misappropriation, like a Belgian dressing up as a Turk and claiming it’s OK because they live somewhere on the same continent. This dressing up, by the way, is troubling. Aboriginal Canadians have valid grievances and must be listened to, but they live in the 21st century and have no need to dress otherwise. Compare this to Scottish nationalists who cringe at the pretend Highland outfits worn by professional Scotsman to appeal to largely North American tourists. We all have cultural identities, but most of us acknowledge that we dress for the contemporary age. Who is actually a Native? Some of the loudest zealots are tenuously so, and one of them appears to be German! Others have some Native blood but in the past have even been denied Indian status, and it’s probably more up to Dr. Freud than a columnist to speculate why they’re sometimes the more aggressive and unreasonable ones. Most ethnic communities in Canada are very careful to guarantee that white extremists do not try to co-opt their struggles and exploit them for their own ends. But the Idle No More groups in urban centres, in particular, are beginning to resemble the Occupy gangs from last year. We’re seeing the identical faces protesting and obstructing. Natives have authentic complaints; white, rich Marxists trying to annoy mommy and daddy do not. Then there are the anti-Tory politicians, who will do pretty much anything to convince people that Stephen Harper is a dictator, a dictator apparently being anyone who defeats them in an election. What a mess all this is, and — tragically — it’ll probably change not one iota of Native pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blarg Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 So Blarg i suppose you think this is ok treatment for your fellow countrymen so your wife can wear a diamond on her hand...the people affected by this are living not in caves ...but un insulated sheds with a single extention cord to supply power....this is ok with you ? watch the video http://aptn.ca/pages/news/2011/12/13/de-beers-decision-to-dump-sewage-into-attawapiskat-played-role-in-current-housing-crisis/ Do you disagree with the media of the aptn and rabble.ca because they dont conform to your opinion?....you and Cheif Therese Spence have something in common then because she has no faith in the misleading Government controlled Media either....Another video for you that didnt make the news because it didnt conform to the bias of the Media...instead they edited her interveiw to conform... IM sorry but i've yet to read anything that you have posted in this thread that i wouldn't classify as leftist propaganda. You are an extremist it seems, just like those people at rabble that you like to reference, you, they and all of the other tin foil hatters live in a make believe world, those of us who live in this reality want to see real improvements, and that doesn't include make believe scenarios where the native bands are on the same footing as the government, or where the country gets given back. That isn't going to happen. Sorry, but as soon as you start using catch phrases such as the 'government controlled media' you out yourself for what you are, in fact the most 'government controlled media' is the CBC and no other media outlet has been pushing this story as hard without asking any hard questions of it. So, if you want to group yourself in with people who are anti development, anti oil, anti gun, anti capitalism anti Isreal, etc etc etc, you have evey right, but what isn't right is telling people the sky is falling and that Canada isn't Canada anymore, or that Harper is dictator/fascist, or that our country side will all turn into the moonscape that is the oil sands, that is what you have allied yourself with. WIth opinions like that how can anyone think you are a credible source of information? Im still waiting for anyone anywhere to show me where in law it says that anyone can do anything they please to the water in this country after bill-45, i mean that is what this is all about right? If you believe that i have got a big lake parked off of North Bay i'd like to sell you. Here is a video of some fine upstanding prpotestors who expect freedom of speech while demanding others don't. http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2013/01/20130120-103816.html I know, evil empire, fascist government controlled media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky or Specks Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Seriously, I'm shocked at alot of the comments in this thread. A fishing site, where little to nobody has mentioned anything in relation to the protection of the earth. Thats because the INM enviromental message is full of crap. Natives just wants to get paid to ruin the enviroment like everybody else does. Natives are not "noble savages" like most would like to perceive them. They are human beings first. And in case you haven't noticed we all want our cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky or Specks Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 The Natives were here before us. And they took much better care of the land! Im so tired of this misconception. The natives raped every resource they were capaple of doing and moved on. Thats what being a nomadic tribe is all about. They weren't industrialized if they were you can bet we would have landed on a much different continent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky or Specks Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 I would also like to compliment the Deleware nation for showing the way this protest should be conducted. For those who haven't seen it. Damn can't figure out how to imbed anymore . Please take the 2 minutes to watch this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocoda Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Here is a video i made in December at one of the several rallies i participated in .According to the Myan calander a fire would be lit to cover the earth..Did it become a reality when the 7th Generation lit the fire for the rights of the eighth generation? As you will see Idle No More started off and still remains in the context of peaceful ceremony.The indigenous peoples of Idle No More are waking up Canadians to expose what is going on with our Government and its plans in the Name of Jobs...Plain a Simple...Either you approve or disapprove the choice is yours...With the growing numbers of people worldwide that agree with the Movement as they get educated to the truth. Canada is falling under a microscope of World scrutiny for its dirty little embarrassing secrets. If there was a war then there would be declared a winner...War was averted by a PEACEFUL agreement (Treaties) on both sides between the Crown(European) and the Indigenous People and together they fought off the Americans and later the Germans ....If you suggest the thoughts of Treaties are a "thing of the past" then the next time you walk into a Legion or Government Building that has a picture of the Queen on it ...Remember...she is a "thing of the past" and you wont have to remove your hat out of respect or abide by the Laws of the Crown..eg licenses for everything enjoyable and necessary to survive in this country. So in essence ...if you disrespect the Treaties ...you also disrespect the Crown of the very foundation we live by TODAY. In my mind the only solution is to honour the past....make amends for the atrocities and move forward in a respectful manner that is beneficial to ALL of us CANADIANS regardless of the colour of skin or tongue we speak...Coolslav....this subject is much larger than your present knowledge and you are obviously bias in your "research" for whatever reason....But i hope you continue to read and learn. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152379828855220&set=vb.894675219&type=2&theater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocoda Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Yep you have, But theres been a wee bit of unsubstanciated/personal oppinion as well... You know it and so do I I Suppose I could go back and copy/paste and quote it but that would be silly when its all right there in the last few pages. Its just a point to make... If you're going to throw stones at someone for not quoting sources, then be sure your not in the same glass house is all I'm saying. I'm not saying I'm any better... I'm laying out quotes and speaking to the evidence posted, but I'm also not condeming an oppinion based on the lack of a news link....its all here in the thread for the most part, or common knowledge IMO. By the way you skirted around my Question.... "Are you implying that First Nations are a Nation with in our nation and are to be considered sovereign and not Canadians?" Dr. Pam seems to be pushing this... Its a valid question... As a tax payer I think I have a right to ask if we are funding $9 Billion annually to support a sovereign nation with in Canada. I'm just curious as that idea didn't sit well with Canadians when it was put to a Quebec referendum in 1995....thats fact in the history books This is where your wrong....WE are not funding anything ...simply sharing a very small portion of the wealth from resources in order to appease the Crown...First Nations in the eyes of the world are a sovereign Nation ...We are a State of their Nation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky or Specks Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Umm my family came here to escape the queen(won't capitalize her title)So don't use that arguement it doesn't wash and its long past due that we severe all ties with our Colonial Past. And if that means a large financial payment to wipe out the treaties so be it. But we need to become one nation something First Nations will never accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky or Specks Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 This is where your wrong....WE are not funding anything ...simply sharing a very small portion of the wealth from resources in order to appease the Crown...First Nations in the eyes of the world are a sovereign Nation ...We are a State of their Nation... LOL Eyes of the world. This of coarse is despite actual history and the world your talking about is the same "World" that appointed Libya on a human rights commision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocoda Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Umm my family came here to escape the queen(won't capitalize her title)So don't use that arguement it doesn't wash and its long past due that we severe all ties with our Colonial Past. And if that means a large financial payment to wipe out the treaties so be it. But we need to become one nation something First Nations will never accept. How did that work out for you ...or do you walk to the beat of your own laws here on this contenient...My family has paid a large price to the Crown too....hence the reason we are here since 1736....For a better life....now scattered across this entire continent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky or Specks Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 How did that work out for you ...or do you walk to the beat of your own laws here on this contenient...My family has paid a large price to the Crown too....hence the reason we are here since 1736....For a better life....now scattered across this entire continent Worked out very well thank you.Because Im part of society. See what apartied has done for FN . If I felt that a law wasn't in the best interest of me or my family or interfered with others right to liberty I would ignore it and fight against it.( so essentially yes I do follow the beat of my own laws) Like I said if you haven't been paid lets pay you and wipe out the debt. I'm not saying we don't owe you. I'm just tired of this Nation to Nation crap. Your in or your out. I'd prefer to have you in, your culture and history are rich and diversified and makes us a stronger country in the same way that the Germans, Ukranians, Italians Chinese et al do. If you keep up the way you(FN) are going you are going to alienate those who would be most likely to be on your side. I hate government as much as the next guy and Bill C45 is worrisome to say the least but don't hide behind the environment and shout its all about our best interest when its all about getting your cut. Don't piss on my leg and tell me its raining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocoda Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Again another assumption....I do not have an iota of Native Blood in my veins or am i a member of FN...? Laws are made inspired by circumstances...some are great and some are just plain stupid....My Scottish blood relys on my moral compass to defend the great ones and fight the stupid ones and the illegal process in which they will infringe upon everyone....I am proud to be born in this country and ive had the good fortune to be in almost every part of it to appreciate each area for what is has to offer but yet in the same breath ....Im also ashamed....My memory bank is filthy rich because of this at no ones expense. There are some very good sites out there that are not affilliated with FN or indigenous peoples to what Idle No More means to them (proudly holding up "settler' or "ally" messages)...People of every walk of life, colour, religious beliefs etc...My great great Grandfather and Grandfather paid the price for you to be able to speak your opinion freely but no one in my family past had to fight the peoples of this land so we could stay here.. GO FIGURE! Mr Blizzard ...your thread which i believe to have been started as a negative perception towards Natives has only taught you that you do not have a clue as to what is going on...dont take it to heart because your not alone..ignorance is bliss. This is the last post for me in this thread Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch312 Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Ha ha ha... Havent been there in a while have you....im sur part of it are nice, and many people there are nice, but.... Complain to the Band Office? The band office, and the six nations police are just as corrupt as the those "disturbing the peace". Ever wonder where the hundreds upon hundred of pickups and SUVs stolen from the GTA and Niagara end up every year? The police and leaders sit back and watch. Do some more research on the area now. Most people have no clue what the resident of Caledonia have actually gone through.... sad, yet very true.... blocking a road and annoying locals is NOT the way to protest as it does nothing but make more people even annoyed and does nothing to help the cause. that said, it would be very interesting to organize a blockade limiting access to the reserve to see just how "equal" non natives would be treated for pulling the same crap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr blizzard Posted January 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 I have enjoyed reading all the comments and thank the mods for keeping it open. I live in a subdivision setting up here. I have native neighbours living in homes on either side of me and we get along very well. They both were tired of the dual standards. They decided to go out on their own. The one neighbour told me very clearly, alot of natives up here choose to stay on the reserves because they are afraid they will lose their heritage which he mentioned would mean they might lose some of the extras. He mentioned I have it best, I have benefits given to me for being native, I get to enjoy the freedom of living in Canada and he said what alot of people on the reserves forget is you can actually go out and work to make money to pay for a house, groceries and your bills. He mentioned that when the diamond and gold mines opened up here and yes they had to dig a few holes and disrupt a bit of dirt, remembering these ventures came about from money from the Canadian govt as well as foreign investores the natives are given funding from these mines and if you care to go and check out BHP Billitons web site preferential hiring is given to 7 or 8 native groups first. And if you are lucky enough to get into one of these mines if a native applies for a job you are doing he can bump u out as per to the hiring practices. As the neighbour mentioned it should be the best qualified gets the position period. When u look at the size of the 3 territories it encompasses as much land as the rest of Canada with just a trickle of the population. As the neighbour half jokingly mentioned, our ancestors were good on foot but there is no way we could have covered all of this land. We all have ancestors, we all have roots. Every nationality in this great country can be proud of their background but we should all have to play by the same rules and make this country great not just in properity but also in a rich cultural background. It has been a terrific read with great input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch312 Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Natives DO NOT get free schooling. And what they do receive is far less then average in this country. huh? i went to a catholic highschool and IIRC, each native was paid ($40 weekly or monthly?) by the government if they had good attendance and uniforms were also covered every year, which weren't exactly cheap. my parents didn't get any help with the $1000 or so it cost for my uniform for 4 years? two of my buddies (one is 1/4 and the other is 1/2 native) are currently in school for nursing and neither one has paid anything out of pocket. actually, one of them spent over a year in school to become a cop and dropped out he simply changed his mind. why not, it's free? treat everyone as equals and get it over with already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookslav Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Every nationality in this great country can be proud of their background but we should all have to play by the same rules Amen. Its been my issue from the start. By the way...just food for thought and something to read. http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/01/18/kent-roach-and-david-schneiderman-police-are-right-to-be-cautious-with-idle-no-more-protesters/ The basic message of the article is questioning if a Court injunction to stop the protests is warranted or not. The Author is a little to the left...suggesting the prostests should be allowed to continue. Have a read...draw your own conclusions What I find more interesting are the comments....pages and pages of comments. Idle no more protests ares not as supported as you might think. People are slowly but surely voicing oppinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr blizzard Posted January 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 huh? i went to a catholic highschool and IIRC, each native was paid ($40 weekly or monthly?) by the government if they had good attendance and uniforms were also covered every year, which weren't exactly cheap. my parents didn't get any help with the $1000 or so it cost for my uniform for 4 years? two of my buddies (one is 1/4 and the other is 1/2 native) are currently in school for nursing and neither one has paid anything out of pocket. actually, one of them spent over a year in school to become a cop and dropped out he simply changed his mind. why not, it's free? Thank you, no one paid for my sons private schooling when we lived in Barrie except ourselves, and yes I had to cash in some rrsps to keep him there. Thats why I cannot understand why we have a dual standard, it should be the same for all Canadians. treat everyone as equals and get it over with already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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