Some thoughts on Lake Nipissing

[TJQ]

So.. after digesting a bit more on the lake and talking to alot of people here. I've had some interesting points brought to my attention, that I thought would make an interesting conversation. I may be off base here, so please set me straight if I'm missing something.

 

( Please no native bashing here.. not what this thread is about - ill just delete your comments )

 

#1 From everyone I talk to the halving of the limit was on the very bottom of the list of MNR options. The MNR themselves have told stakeholders that it would not have much if ANY effect on the fishery. So why would they do that??

 

#2 Alot of the tourists that come up, especially out of province ones, buy a week long conservation license and stay at a lodge or cottage resort. So they would get to keep 2 pickeral for shore lunch, as believe it or not, most tourists are not interested in dragging much fish home.

 

#3 So now that the Conservation License will be 1, most people will be forced to buy a regular license if they want to have a shorelunch (2 under the slot fish each) raising the license fee from. 29.40 to 51.28. Basically raising the $ value of licenses sold on Lake Nipissing by 40%, which goes into the general fund and will not be spent on Lake Nipissing cause the MNR is vehemently against stocking. They assure me it doesn't work. Personally I don't know that it does or doesn't, what I do know is that it cannot hurt. And it sure as hell can't hurt tourism, which for our area is one of the biggest sources of jobs, property taxes and general taxes up here.

 

#4 Historically regulations that have been pushed on Nipissing first have managed to make there way across the province. If I'm not mistaken (and I may be.. once again set me straight) we were the first to have a limit of 4, and the first to have slot sizes. So is a walleye limit of two only a matter of time for the rest of the province?? Even if you don't fish Nipissing that alone ought to give you something to think about.

 

Just my thoughts...please keep the comments civil... please.

[Joey]

So in the end, it's all about money $$$$$$ for the Gov't and not the public or tourism, figures

[davey buoy]

That's sounds like a crime on it's own. That's terrible TJ.

[Tayzak15]

Urgh....remember the days when the limit was 6

[dhickey]

Something some may want to look at is . Lake Nipissing Data Review .

I found it on google and it is from the MNR.

 

After reading it a couple times it would seem to me that the problem is with youth mortality and the fish are growing into the slot size before they have a chance to regenorate the population.

 

So this would suggest to me that the fish are very heathy and have lots of food with very little competition?

 

So hear is somthing to ponder.

What if the slot size was changed?

Nothing can be kept under 50 cm?

This would alow the youth to mature and spawn while not hurting tourisim.

 

This may be a case of MNR not wanting to admit that the slot size program didnt work?

 

Regardless Nipissing is in trouble.

 

If you alow the smaller fish to grow and spawn there will be tonns of fish it may take 6-7 years but I dont see what the alternative is?

 

Just my thoughts..

[chris.brock]

in point #3, you mention stocking couldn't hurt

 

there is some science that says stocking into a naturally reproducing population can hurt, it can distort the genetics

if they were stocking from Lk Nip fish (I assume they would), some science argues that the stocking by-passes the natural selection process and can hurt the population

 

I know in Haliburton the MNR doesn't stock natural lake trout lakes with lakers even if the population is low and struggling

[Kingsalmon]

#4 Historically regulations that have been pushed on Nipissing first have managed to make there way across the province. If I'm not mistaken (and I may be.. once again set me straight) we were the first to have a limit of 4, and the first to have slot sizes. So is a walleye limit of two only a matter of time for the rest of the province?? Even if you don't fish Nipissing that alone ought to give you something to think about.

 

I am almost sure that this will come to fruition in the rest of the province. As TJ mentioned, Nipissing has always been the testing grounds for regulation changes, and I feel this time around its going to be no different. In the next decade this whole province with have the same limits as Nipissing. Pretty soon no one will know what a pickerel/walleye tastes like

[Joeytier]

So hear is somthing to ponder.

What if the slot size was changed?

Nothing can be kept under 50 cm?

I, as well as many others, wouldn't be keeping hardly any fish that's for sure if that were the case.

[Cookslav]

I'm no Biologist but,

I'm fairly certain the Commercial netting has a hell of a lot more to do with low fish numbers then the angling does.

I can't speak for the area toursim industry as I'm not familiar with the levels of dependancy on price sensitivity vs. available fish that fit into the slot sizes and limits but I'm guessing it will have some impact.

And long term if that money isn't translated into a stocking program that actually works....its not helping a thing.

 

So to me it just seems the decisions made are a bandaid solution.

Limiting the anglers (tourist or local) and their catch numbers seems is a simple drop of water in a big puddle.

The only way to get Fish numbers up IMO is to police, limit, or stop the commercial fishing, increase stocking programs and potentially look into adding some sanctuary waters...

Admitedly this would also effect the local economy, but IMO its a more sustainable long term plan.

[dhickey]

I, as well as many others, wouldn't be keeping hardly any fish that's for sure if that were the case.

You would be catching fish...

You would need to adoped catch and release practices.?

[Joeytier]

You would be catching fish...

You would need to adoped catch and release practices.?

Just commenting on how most fish tend to fall under the current slot...and yes, I enjoy keeping walleye sometimes

[LeXXington]

Fishing is not something the GTA really care’s about. This is a trend that will continue as more kids grow up not experiencing the outdoors.

Why the MNR did this.

1. People have to kill less fish. Same as the spring bear hunt good thing for a vocal animal rights group in the GTA
2. People owning resorts can't make a living and sell water front property - good for cottages.
3. When has the government really been aggressive to lower northern unemployment? They really don’t care as there is nothing that can be vote affecting.
4. The native issue would be controversial
5. Stocking is expensive. Even if it worked as a “put and take” would the benefit out way the cost.
6. Reducing a certain bird would be controversial with animal rights group.

It was an easy way out.

 

Personal thoughts for fixing…

A tourist fishing licence for people outside Ontario

Allow local groups to stock.

Fix the netting issue so all parties are happy

All money collected by MNR stays in MNR

[Whopper]

TJ a lot of people from my area use to vist Nip back in the day, they were casual fishermen, with most the only week they fished all year. Nip at times can humble a good fisherman and a novice isn't going to spend the kind of money to go there and not catch fish let alone agree to a one fish limit, just ain't going to happen.

 

Paul I don't understand the "tourist fishing license"' now I'm not complaining but I paid almost $70 last year for my license and will do the same this year, how much more should I pay?

Edited January 16, 2013 by Whopper

[LeXXington]

Paul I don't understand the "tourist fishing license"' now I'm not complaining but I paid almost $70 last year for my license and will do the same this year, how much more should I pay?

 

Sorry to be clear a tourist fishing license should be cheaper and the same as a sportsman.

 

We need to encourage other people outside of canada to come to the area.

 

Like you said you payed $70 last year add that to the cost of travel no wonder people are going elsewhere.

 

 

[Whopper]

Sorry to be clear a tourist fishing license should be cheaper and the same as a sportsman.

 

We need to encourage other people outside of canada to come to the area.

 

Like you said you payed $70 last year add that to the cost of travel no wonder people are going elsewhere.

 

Glad you cleared that up, actually the license fee is a bit more than we pay state to state here but I think it's worth it.

I made three trips to Ontario last season and probably spent more than a casual local fishermen, but then again it's what I enjoying doing and one of the reasons I work

[huntinnut]

Hi all, I've been following along and thought i'd weigh in. I work in forestry in BC, and we're constantly dealing with, and trying to find creative solutions to similar policy problems. This is probably a bit heavy for a first post here. I was fishing at Nippissing a week ago, and from what I could see the pikerel I caught were quite young and growing very fast.

 

It seems to me that any policy decisions made by the MNR, with respect to sport fishing in the context of lake Nippissing, are meaningless unless the variables affecting sustainability of the lake are all addressed together. With the way things are now it seems that any actions taken by the MNR to improve the fishery on Nippissing will be counteracted by increased, or at least continued, commercial fishing.

 

There doesn't seem to be any desire on the part of the government to test the boundaries of the Sparrow case, which could result in a more regulated commercial fishery, which then could allow the lake to be managed sustainably. This would require another court case which would take years to decide, but would possibly offer a useful framework when deciding 'how much' of a resource can be taken.

 

Failing the government doing something then the best option may be one of advocacy (although it might be extremely difficult). At this point the data i've seen shows that the commercial catch is also declining, and it would be in the best interests of those doing the fishing to reduce their catch or adopt more selective fishing practices that allowed the lake to recover, so that the catch could be done at a more sustainable level. In BC, native groups at least partially listen to DFO recomendations regarding native cerimonial and sustinance fishing because nobody wants to see the salmon dissapear. Maybe sport fishing groups should engage in a dialouge over the level of fishing in Nippissing for everyones benefit. This would have to be done in a non-confrontational way so as to not become a fight over fishing or fishing rights, which this is not about. It would simply be about the sustainable management of Nippissing.

 

Karl

Edited January 17, 2013 by huntinnut

[Roy]

Great first post, Karl. Welcome aboard.

[Bernie]

Great first post, Karl. Welcome aboard.

Agreed.

Well done sir.

[TJQ]

It seems to me that any policy decisions made by the MNR, with respect to sport fishing in the context of lake Nippissing, are meaningless unless the variables affecting sustainability of the lake are all addressed togetherIt seems to me that any policy decisions made by the MNR, with respect to sport fishing in the context of lake Nippissing, are meaningless unless the variables affecting sustainability of the lake are all addressed together

 

Thats a fact. And thats the real problem. Only one of the 5 or 6 things that are hurting or could help are actually being addressed in any way with real action.

[Fish Farmer]

I think they have to go to the root of the problem and fix it. Dropping the limit is going to hurt tourism. Spending hundreds of dollars to go to Nip and only being able to keep 2 Pickerel the size of a Perch, is not going to cut-it. It's a darn shame because I always looked forward to our yearly trip to Nip. and it doesn't happen anymore. I feel sorry what's about to happen, not good.

[TJQ]

Well the other thing that needs to be done is the lake has to loose its sygma as a walleye lake. Thats what alot of tourists come from, but theres also fantastc pike small & largemouth bass fishng and more perch than can be consumed. Ive already had clients tell me they are going to promote the place as a veritable grab bag of great multi species fishing. If im not mistaken, a few years back OOD named Nipissing as the best bass lake in Ontario!

[moxie]

Round and round we go, where it stops nobody knows. There isn't any money to implement solutions and therefore the implementation of more stringent rules is the only substitute. Working our way to a Trillion dollar Deficit, an astronomical to even begin to get my head around. Conservation is all we have left, after every thief in the rats' nest has taken their share. Sorry folks but the sooner we all realize and admit that this is the truth, the better.

[Lunkerhunter]

every year i usually go on 3-4 week long fishing trips to many of the our wonderful lodges across ontario. i have never been and most likely will never go to nipissing for any of my trips for many of the reasons that are being discussed here.

 

I know the lake has an abundance of other species that are not walleye but it just seems like its getting worse and worse as a whole. i drive right by it and even fish some of its surrounding lakes with much success but i just dont see myself booking a week trip to a lodge on nippissing.

 

i have to agree lowering the walleye limit to 2 dink fish cannot help tourism and bringing people from out of province/country to the lake. that said a majority of the guests at the lodges i have stayed at across ontario are from the states and very few canadians actually spend money and stay at the lodges that we have right here in our province. its pretty sad really when you go on a lodges website that is based in canada and the prices are in american dollars as thats 90% of there customers.

 

im sure glad there are as many lakes in this country as there are. makes it easy to "skip" over the ones like nipissing. sorry to say it but its true

 

good thread TJ. should make for an interesting read

 

cheers

[kickingfrog]

Lots of issues and factors at work on a big lake but one aspect that hasn't been mention is that general make-up of the lake has changed.

 

water chemistry ("cleaner" then past decades)

introduced species (Spiny water flees et al)

resurgence of species (Cormorants)

types of bait fish (Smelt)

availability of bait fish (see above cormorants)

etc

 

One thing that has hardly changed one bit from the 70's is the way many of the anglers try to catch the walleye on Nipissing.

 

Early season: Soak minnows on points and if that doesn't work soak minnows in bays. If you want to be cutting edge you use worms early.

 

"Later" in the season (second weekend after opener) soak worms on points and if that doesn't work drag crawler harnesses if there is enough wind.

 

And when you don't catch as many fish as you remember "you used to catch" blame it on: early spring, late spring, spring interrupted, minnows were too big, minnows were too small, minnows died too easily, tourist kept too many, locals kept too many and finally "I should have been here yesterday".

 

This, of course, does not apply to all but I hear this every year from people fishing walleye on Nipissing. And yes, some are family.

[TJQ]

Thanks...

 

 

 

Early season: Soak minnows on points and if that doesn't work soak minnows in bays. If you want to be cutting edge you use worms early.

 

"Later" in the season (second weekend after opener) soak worms on points and if that doesn't work drag crawler harnesses if there is enough wind.

 

And when you don't catch as many fish as you remember "you used to catch" blame it on: early spring, late spring, spring interrupted, minnows were too big, minnows were too small, minnows died too easily, tourist kept too many, locals kept too many and finally "I should have been here yesterday"

 

Now ya let the cat outta the bag.