kickingfrog Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 I think he was refering to the great wall of china THAT would be correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike rousseau Posted July 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 You'd think that a modern boating gps unit with a chip would have a setting that would alert you to border proximity/impending prop busters etc.. But what I'm saying is you shouldn't have to buy a gps... It's not fair that every angler in my area has to own a gps so they know where the border is... It wouldn't be bad if the shipping Chanel was the border... Then there would be no confusion... But that's not the case... It's a jagged border line that makes many turns and cuts back and forth in the middle of nowhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 I agree that it should be marked as well and easily visible. If someone still goes through it, then it's nothing but stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercman Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 I agree that it should be marked as well and easily visible. If someone still goes through it, then it's nothing but stupidity. And unless the angler is a repeat, or known poacher, a warning, and a quick education should be sufficient the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecmilley Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 not as cut and dryed as you may think it has always been my understanding that fishing in border water area's the regulations are in effect for the license you carry, ontario license ontario rules. http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/LetsFish/2ColumnSubPage/STEL02_165335.html start reading pretty sure i am correct but the OFC crack legal team of experts will figure it out i am sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecmilley Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 But what I'm saying is you shouldn't have to buy a gps... It's not fair that every angler in my area has to own a gps so they know where the border is... It wouldn't be bad if the shipping Chanel was the border... Then there would be no confusion... But that's not the case... It's a jagged border line that makes many turns and cuts back and forth in the middle of nowhere... it's easy mike, when you see the pountine truck and beer in the corner store your in quebec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smally21 Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 If the GPS argument was brought up the prosecutor types could simply say the border is clearly marked on the chart that you are legally required to have on board your boat at all times.. GPS is not an acceptable form of knowing where you are, or navigating, according to the establishment anyway only govt charts are acceptable.. BTW I don't agree with anything i just wrote GPS is THE way to navigate and know where you are but i do beleive it would be entered in the argument... Just tossing this out as the GPS seemed to come up repeatedly...and yes i know that 'significant local knowledge' is written into the language as well but the 'defence' is basically "i didn't know where I was" so essentially you can't argue that you dont have charts cause you are familiar with the area but i dont know where i am in the same breath... starting to ramble was up late... difficult scenario should be streamlined of course the problem goes away if you just let the fish go...but they are tasty no matter what passport they carry or language they speak! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Field Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) Last year if you were fishing the Niagara river you were suppose to phone the customs office when you crossed the border, even though you had no intention of landing on the opposite shore. I think it was the Canadian customs that were causing all the problems. Hopefully commonsense prevailed there and this is no longer is demanded. I would guess that these same stupid rules could apply here. Edited July 6, 2012 by staffman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctered Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 No they have not changed anything on the Niagara. The coast guard has been out this year sending people back if they had not called in to say they were crossing the border. I hope your friend has all 3 licenses for Ont,PQ, and NY or he could get charged for no license as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercman Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) it's easy mike, when you see the pountine truck and beer in the corner store your in quebec Poutine trucks are illegal now in Quebec You have to go to a "Pataterie" to get the provincial delicacy Just look for the rough water, that means your in Quebec. Edited July 6, 2012 by mercman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Bob Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 When I fish the boarder waters on Lake Erie (and I do this almost every time out for walleye) the boarder is CLEARLY marked by a line on my Navionics Mapping...I know exactly when I'm in Canadian waters or NYS waters....If I remember tomorrow I'll switch it to Eastern NY and check if there are boarder lines in the questioned area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbles Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 I think we are all just a little spoiled with our relationship we share with the US. If we bordered Russia or North Korea I bet you would know exactly where the border is or you would learn mighty quick. I fish the detroit river all the time, I know ROUGHLY where the border is and stay clear of it to avoid any issues like this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 If the GPS argument was brought up the prosecutor types could simply say the border is clearly marked on the chart that you are legally required to have on board your boat at all times.. Not according to this: If you are operating a boat under 100 gross tons, you do not have to carry these charts, documents and publications on board as long as you know: the location and type of charted: shipping routes; lights, buoys and marks; and boating hazards; and the area’s usual boating conditions such as tides, currents, ice and weather patterns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 So if you're fishing border waters, one would think you should know the boundaries no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lew Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 So if you're fishing border waters, one would think you should know the boundaries no? Sometimes there's no way to know Bill as there are absolutely no markers of any kind where Mikes talking about. It's a huge body of water that touches 2 provinces and the US. Sorta like trolling across Lake O with nothing on your GPS and putting your finger directly on the Canada/US border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 Sometimes there's no way to know Bill as there are absolutely no markers of any kind where Mikes talking about. It's a huge body of water that touches 2 provinces and the US. Sorta like trolling across Lake O with nothing on your GPS and putting your finger directly on the Canada/US border. I realize that, but the thought should still be in the back of your head. I agree there should be some kind of marker out there. Better safe then sorry (In this case to the tune of $355) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smally21 Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 Fisherman "local knowledge" was covered in my post. you require charts unless you know the waters and the items you mentioned. it was clearly stated that if one was to argue they had local knowledge, ie of the items you stated, then they would also have to state that they 'knew' where they were and the explanation 'sorry didn't know i was in another region' would be contradictory. yer guilty of failing to have charts, OR knowingly fishing outside the licensed territory, but not both.... perhaps read the post again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aplumma Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 I would think if in doubt move to an area that you are sure of. Fish are all over they are not only in the sketchy areas he fished in. We have boundaries here between D.C. Maryland and Virginia. If you fish D.C. without their license your busted. If you put a bait net out in Maryland your busted. If you possess a Striper in the wrong zone you will get a ticket. It is something I live with every time I fish.I also took the time to learn and use a GPS to keep from getting a ticket. If you can't afford the tools needed to obey the laws then you don't have the resources to fish there it is that easy. I spend over $200.00 a year in licenses to be able to fish in the three zones it's not a gray area it is in black in white and easily verified with modern navigational equipment that is available to everyone. Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Bob Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 Sometimes there's no way to know Bill as there are absolutely no markers of any kind where Mikes talking about. It's a huge body of water that touches 2 provinces and the US. Sorta like trolling across Lake O with nothing on your GPS and putting your finger directly on the Canada/US border. I just checked that area with my Lowrance GPS unit using both Navionics and Lowrance mapping software.....Navionics has detail just about EVERYTHING you need to navigate through that area....it shows all the channel markers and channels you need to stay in for safe voyage...BUT not the boundaries of NYS, Ontario or Quebec....However when I switch to my USA form of Lowrance mapping software it does show the boundaries BUT then loses all the water in Canada....so that's pretty useless.......maybe a Canada version of Lowrance mapping would so more water detail of the Cornwall, Ontario area. Now on Lake Ontario my Navionics does NOT show the Ontario/NYS boundary but when I switch to Lowrance Mapping software it does show the boundary...however it's a very faint line, but it's there...... Now on Lake Erie near the Buffalo area, my Navionics CLEARLY shows the USA/Canada boundary line and every detail I need to fish that area. GO FIGURE..... Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lew Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 Navionics has detail just about EVERYTHING you need to navigate through that area....it shows all the channel markers and channels you need to stay in for safe voyage... When I said there were no markers Bob, I meant nothing to show the provincial or Canada/USA boundaries. Everything else is well marked as you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Bob Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 When I said there were no markers Bob, I meant nothing to show the provincial or Canada/USA boundaries. Everything else is well marked as you say. YES......that was my point......everything BUT the boundary lines.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bacon Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 not as cut and dryed as you may think it has always been my understanding that fishing in border water area's the regulations are in effect for the license you carry, ontario license ontario rules. http://www.mnr.gov.o...L02_165335.html start reading pretty sure i am correct but the OFC crack legal team of experts will figure it out i am sure Don't you require a license for the juristiction you are fishing? If you are on the St. Lawrence and want to fish the U.S. side, wouldn't you require a US fishing license? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 yeah but bottom line is did he know the border was somewhere in the area that he was going to fish...you are obligated to know knowing he was fishing near the border did he buy all the licenses and if you know there is some chance you could be in their waters how can you help but expect to respect the limits in all areas and that if stopped you would have to expect that you could be charged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike rousseau Posted July 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 on an provincial border water you dont need both licenses... i can fish QC with my ontario license... however... you cannot fish NY border waters with any ontario or quebec license...... thats international... and a different ball game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danc Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 You can use the sun and the moon and the stars, or fancy electronics to know just exactly where you are on the water, but bottom line here is that its up to you figure it all out. Like the old saying goes, ignorance of the law is not an excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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