Water private property?

[super dave]

I found a small lake that I would love to access with my kayak. By looking at the map, it seems the only way to access is by a small creek. I checked it out last weekend and before unpacking everything, I saw a sign staked right in the middle of the creek saying private property. I thought that waterways are accessible? Can someone correct me if I'm wrong? I wouldn't be getting out of my yak and stepping foot on the land or even the creek bed.

 

Thanks.

[Muskieman]

You should be legal .... Call the MNR find out .

[Roy]

Personally, if I saw a "private" sign somewhere, I just wouldn't go there. Not worth the worry and headache. Do you know how many hundreds of thousand square kilometers of water we have out there? I understand your questioning it though.

[BillM]

People like to think they own water, 99% of the time they don't.

[whiskywizard]

People like to think they own water, 99% of the time they don't.

 

I agree. You're right.

 

Even though it's not common, there is the 1% of people who do own water/lakebed/riverbed. And unless we get to see the deed, we can't know for sure. I'd assume it really is private property and respect the no trespassing sign, untill I knew otherwise.

[ssminnow]

It depends on the water way. Some are considered private some are not. The following link from the MNR will give you a pretty good idea what is involved. Although it won't necessarily answer the question about your particular stream.

 

http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/stdprodconsume/groups/lr/@mnr/@crownland/documents/document/mnr_e000115.pdf

[singingdog]

It's extremly rare for a creek to be private property. You have to decide how badly you want to access that lake...if it's worth a possible showdown with somebody who obviously doesn't want folks in there.

[blue pickeral]

Kick the sign over and throw it away. Wait a couple of days. If the sign is put up again, stay out. Otherwise, go up the creek.

[whiskywizard]

Kick the sign over and throw it away. Wait a couple of days. If the sign is put up again, stay out. Otherwise, go up the creek.

 

Really? Hard to tell if this is meant to be a joke.

Vandalizing their property before trespassing doesn't make other anglers look very good.

[Christopheraaron]

I think it's a joke.

[Jigger]

If its navigable, youre probably good to go. That being said, id heed tje other posters warnings. Folk can be pretty unreasonable when it comes to what is perceived as owned.

[wkrp]

Buy the property and take the sign down.

[whiskywizard]

If its navigable, youre probably good to go.

 

Based on the case law, and the MNR application of it in their rules, I don't think it would be considered navigable. It wouldn't satisfy point 4 below:

1. For purposes of determining navigability, the Ministry position will only be finalized after considering the issue of navigability from the perspective of both the date of inspection and the date of letters patent. The necessity to consider navigability from both perspectives arises because the courts have historically considered navigability at the date of the grant, but it is possible, but not certain that future decisions will reflect only the current situation

2. Navigability depends on "public utility".

3. Public utility means actual or potential commercial or recreational use, or other "socially beneficial activity".

4. Generally, the waterway should run from one point of public access to another point of public access.

 

Buy the property and take the sign down.

Best answer!

 

[cuzza]

Either go knock on some doors and see if the owner will let you go in on your kayak or contact the MNR - first option is more likely to lead to a peaceful fishing trip (assuming you can woirk out whose property it is)

[Rod Caster]

Either go knock on some doors and see if the owner will let you go in on your kayak or contact the MNR - first option is more likely to lead to a peaceful fishing trip (assuming you can woirk out whose property it is)

 

 

X2. Show up with a frozen bag of walleye and a big smile. Chances are, the property owner is keeping out butt-holes; if he sees you as a nice guy, you may get yourself a private lake to fish

[super dave]

An update:

 

I contacted the MNR in attempts to see if they could help me determine if the Private Property signs are legit. They couldn't really help me out and stated that the navicable water act is federal jurisidiction so they refered me to them. Left a detailed message and I'm waiting for a reply.

[Christopheraaron]

X2. Show up with a frozen bag of walleye and a big smile. Chances are, the property owner is keeping out butt-holes; if he sees you as a nice guy, you may get yourself a private lake to fish

 

x2

[GreenCanada]

Personally, I only take signs of those sort into consideration when going out fishing. I fish small headwater tributaries all the time and I pay heed to those that I feel are legitimate and within the confines of the law and don't pay heed to those that aren't. I might occasionally be wrong, but I don't let signs dictate the law when they are put up by individuals, only by the Government.

 

Often signs are put up as deterrents to others to prevent people from using a piece of public property, such as the case with many beach front properties in Georgian Bay. People will do whatever they can get away with.

 

Read the rules as you have and do what you feel is within the confines of the law. If there is an issue, explain your reasoning and if you're in the wrong, apologize. Simple as that.

[Dave Bailey]

Definition of navigable waterway directly from the Transport Canada web site:

 

Navigable Water: any body of water capable of being navigated by floating vessels of any description for the purpose of transportation, commerce or recreation. This includes both inland and coastal waters. The final authority to determine the navigability of a waterway rests with the Minister of Transport or his/her designated representative.

[Rich]

Likely, buddy who owns the property would call the cops, the cops would come, tell you you're doing nothing illegal, but ask you to leave anyway.

[bushart]

It's amazing how much hunting permission I've got in my life from landowners with land posted as no tresspassing

 

I think it's right when said---sometimes the signs are put up because the general public does'nt have respect for someones private property and treat it like a garbage dump---then the signs go up

 

I find a simple inquiry with your intentions spelled out goes a long way when asked in a friendly manner

 

 

I remember years ago---fishing a stretch of the Grand River near Dunneville----an older guy comes up to us and informs us we were on his private property---we really did'nt see the sign

 

Now kids today would likely tell this guy where to go----we apologized as we' did'nt know---we were reeling up our lines---he said---that's ok---we could stay and got future permission to fish there.

 

Sooo....

[206]

Looking to infiltrate Chalk Lake? let us know how you make out

[super dave]

There are two entries into this small lake. From Downstream but its much closer with very little current or upstream but its 3x the length and also have to factor the paddle back. I decided to do the upstream route as it seemed more likely I would not encounter any issues with land owners with this route. It was a long paddle in and an even longer paddle out with the current and wind. In the end, I made it to the lake and it was a total bust. About 3 feet deep, and strangely with no weed growth or fish. Oh well, it satisfied my curiousity. Now I can sleep at night.

 

If you ever decide that you want to try out this small lake, don’t.

 

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=lindsay,+on&hl=en&ll=44.445669,-78.578596&spn=0.035969,0.098791&sll=43.672673,-79.400886&sspn=0.145766,0.395164&t=h&hnear=Lindsay,+Kawartha+Lakes+Division,+Ontario&z=14

[Christopheraaron]

Link's off...

[Jer]

There are two entries into this small lake. From Downstream but its much closer with very little current or upstream but its 3x the length and also have to factor the paddle back. I decided to do the upstream route as it seemed more likely I would not encounter any issues with land owners with this route. It was a long paddle in and an even longer paddle out with the current and wind. In the end, I made it to the lake and it was a total bust. About 3 feet deep, and strangely with no weed growth or fish. Oh well, it satisfied my curiousity. Now I can sleep at night.

 

If you ever decide that you want to try out this small lake, don’t.

 

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=lindsay,+on&hl=en&ll=44.445669,-78.578596&spn=0.035969,0.098791&sll=43.672673,-79.400886&sspn=0.145766,0.395164&t=h&hnear=Lindsay,+Kawartha+Lakes+Division,+Ontario&z=14

 

 

 

Thanks for the heads up. I've often wondered what may be in Emily Lake.