Serious towing with a Safari / Astro Van?

[Rattletrap2]

Guys,

I am looking at doing some pretty serious (I think!) towing with our 2005 GMC Safari van.

It has the 190 HP 4.3L Vortec V6, 3.42:1 rear end.

The manual says this combo has a GCVWR (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating)of 9,500 lbs. The curb weight is listed at 4,068 lbs. I am thinking that with these numbers, I have a total of 5,432 lbs available to tow? I realize that occupant weight, fuel, cargo, etc. have to be deducted from this last number.

 

A lot of people feel these vehicles make poor tow vehicles. Do any of you have experience with this package?

 

I am looking at installing a Tranny cooler (external), brake controller of course, and load equalizing hitch.

Thanks

[irishfield]

Lew towed his Crestliner for years with one Brian.

[Rattletrap2]

Yes, I know Wayne but that was an aluminum boat so I don't imagine it weighed over 2,000 lbs? I thought of Lew and his Safari / Astro.

[Dara]

Lew towed his Crestliner for years with one Brian.

 

Thats Lew for ya

[SBCregal]

towing capacity is 5500lbs on them properly equipped. in the manual for my 97 it recommends brakes on anything over 2k lbs. over the last 2 weeks i put 6k kms on my 97 towing my 10' box tent trailer. the trailer weighs about 1800lbs empty or so. i hauled it out to the east coast and had no problems doing it. i was looking for some extra horsepower occasionally (the tow package vans got 3.73 gears, mine has 3.23's) but it towed it pretty well really. the other thing im DEFINITELY doing as soon as possible is putting brakes on the trailer. overall its a good tow vehicle....fuel mileage leaves something to be desired though. i'll try and figure out the avg mpg i got over my trip tomorrow and see if i remember to post the numbers. for what its worth mine had exactly 307,000km on it when i left my parking spot.

 

ryan

[lew]

I've had a couple new Safari's Brian and their great vehicles.

 

I used the 05 to tow my Crestliner and it did a great job but as you said, it was an aluminum boat and didn't really weigh that much, maybe 2000 lb. including trailer.

 

When I bought the glass boat though it was a different story. The total boat/trailer package will be at least 3500 lb's plus everything else carried in the vehicle and it became too much for the Safari in MY opinion. I travel up to Nippissing several times a year and have to go up some fairly big hills and although the Safari did a good job of pulling the heavier boat on relatively level ground, I felt it was struggling on the bigger hills. I had the extra cooler installed when I bought the van so higher engine temps were never a problem but the 190 HP just didn't seem enough for heavier loads on long hills and I think it was putting a real strain on the engine and I felt it was over working it.

 

If your gonna tow a heavier load any distance you may want to think about something other than the Safari but again, that's only MY opinion.

 

PLEASE DON'T GO OUT AND SPEND 40 GRAND BECAUSE I SAID SO

 

I got rid of the Safari and purchased a new Ford F-150 Super Crew with the 5.4 motor and 310 HP and it's all the difference in the world and I hardly feel the boat behind me now, even going up the big hills.

Edited August 1, 2011 by lew

[Garnet]

Theirs 3 models of Safari's, the LE was 4500, SE 5000, and AWD 5500.

 

Mine was the SE 1999 that I towed a 20ft bassboat 300,000k. The manual recommends towing in 3rd gear. It wasn't great on hills but always did the job. With mine I took the center seat out for storage space.

 

I would trade my Sierra crewcab for a new Sahari in a heart beat just slide that door open and pile all tackle clothes rods in and go.

[Daplumma]

I have a 2003 AWD with a factory tow package.I doesn't feel my jet skiis or my fishing boat.The downside is the fuel milage is on par with a pick up truck with a larger motor.It is more conveniant than a truck to load and unload gear.

Joe

[bubbles]

In my opinion nothing is meant to tow except a truck.

[Bernie]

Towing capacity also includes the available stopping power of the vehicle.

Make sure the vehicles brakes are in good condition.

Rust on the rotors and drums reduce efficiency. Also making sure the calipers and wheel cylinders are freely operational would be imperative.

Trailer brakes on a load you are speaking of would definitely require fully operational trailer brakes.

Trailer brakes should be inspected yearly as they have a tendency of the friction material deteriorating and falling off the backing shoe. Most are glued on, not riveted.

Towing capacity would also include the weight of your gear and persons inside the van itself.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Bernie

[Rattletrap2]

Thanks guys.

This particular set-up is rated for a trailer weight of 4,900 lbs. with the 3.42 rear end. If I had the 3.73 rear end, the available trailer weight would only go up by 500 lbs. Changing out the rear end is cost prohibitive for that small gain!

 

I ordered it with a tow package when I bought it, but that only included a weight distributing hitch and 7 wires run to the rear doors. I need to get a brake controller for sure. Any suggestions on those?

 

Even towing my boat around all these years without brakes makes me wonder what I was doing all this time!

 

From what I can find, the curb weight is 4,068 lbs. for this van empty. The empty trailer weight is 3,700 lbs. By my math, this leaves me 1,732 lbs.

 

Now, out of that 1,732, I have to carry fuel for the van, both of us, & our food and gear. I would be pushing it close to the line. I figure I could keep this stuff down to about 1,000 lbs. That leaves me 732 pounds below my rated GCVWR of 9,500 total. Yikes!!!

[Rattletrap2]

Thanks Bernie!

I'm glad to receive your expert opinion on this. You must have seen a few set-ups similar to this over the years?

 

Brakes on the van are a sore spot. I have 16" wheels and disc brakes all around. The van does not get used as a daily driver, and thus only 90K on it. Rotors constantly rust up and even right now, something is wrong with them. Noisy and full of vibrations stopping the van alone!

 

Is there a better rotor available? I had something different installed on my little Rav 4 that is "supposed" to be better. The rotors are a little heavier and have a groove scored into them all around the surface. My previous ones warped with only 20k on them. Pads were hardly worn at all!

[OhioFisherman]

I had an 89, 95, and 2000, never had any problems pulling my 17 foot aluminum boat, but I am guessing the weight was under 1500 pounds. I also used them on short trips 20-30 miles to the sawmills in the area pulling my tandem axle utility trailer to pick up green slab wood. The trailer would hold 1 1/4 full cord of wood, it wasn`t something I would have been comfortable doing with those vans for a greater distance. The weight of the trailer and wood put it right around maximum capacity, and you could tell. All flat roads in my area.

[DRIFTER_016]

As for brake controllers I have a Tekonsha P3 Proportional Brake Controller and it is a very nice piece of equipment. It's also quite small and can be mounted just about anywhere.

 

Tekonsha Brake Controllers

 

Manual

 

[lew]

 

Now, out of that 1,732, I have to carry fuel for the van, both of us, & our food and gear. I would be pushing it close to the line. I figure I could keep this stuff down to about 1,000 lbs. That leaves me 732 pounds below my rated GCVWR of 9,500 total. Yikes!!!

 

 

Assuming your trailer has holding tanks for drinking water, plus another for waste water while your travelling Brian, that weight can add up real fast too at 10 pounds per gallon. I know my old trailer that I kept in the park carried about 30 gallons of drinking water plus a holding tank for waste water probably held another 15 gallons.

 

There's 450 pounds right there.

 

Amazing how fast weight adds up.

[NBR]

I have a 2005 Safari with the factory tow package. I pull a heavy bass boat that is about 3500 lbs. when loaded. My Safari pulls is like a dream . I do have surge brakes on my boat trailer. Based on the weight you gave I would think your Safari would be fine. When GM cam out with the Safari's and Astro vans they were a quick answer to the Chrysler Minivans and it was my under standing that they basically took a CK truck and put a box on it. The only thing wrong with the Sarari/Astro is that they are no more. I have had 4 in a row.

[dave524]

I've had a 4.3 vortec under my hood for 22 years, first a early throttle body injected in a 88 full size pickup and later a multiport in a 97 Safari. I found it to be equal to 302/305 2 bbl.carburated V8's I had previously. The Safari is not a poor tow vehicle, it is the best in it's class of something less than a full sized van and compared to the rest of that class it is a truck. I towed up to 3000 lbs fairly regularly and I would think with the precautions of coolers , brakes, equalizing hitch and maybe sway bars you will be fine. Just don't expect the gas mileage to be stellar

[Bernie]

There are a lot of crap parts available on the market. In my opinion some of them should not be legal to sell. Rotors are on that list as well as some wheel bearings.

I have had very good success with Delco brand rotors. A very good rotor for the price. Raybestos has a higher priced one as well but the Delco is just as good for less.

Don't put on the cheap pads either, many fall apart in less than two years. I like the top line Raybestos or Wagner Thermoquiet pad. Excellent stopping power and quiet too.

No question when it comes to calipers, Delco is the best, hands down. They come complete with brackets and for your van are not expensive.

Vehicles that sit and are not driven regularly are the ones I find that rust up the rotors the worst.

Moisture stays between the pad and rotor and creates a rust patch which sometimes doesn't get scraped off with the application of the brakes when is driven the next time. This rust patch then "grabs" when the brakes are applied as the pad catches the rust patch and pushes the piston back into the caliper. The fluid pressure of the piston going back in makes the brake pedal bounce. This symptom is more common than a warped rotor.

 

By the way, I also like the Tekonsha brand brake modules. They are the best of any I have installed anyway.

[SBCregal]

ive been going through drums on my safari like crazy. i bought middle line parts to replace what was on there and have had to warranty them twice and now after my trip they pulsate AGAIN. they'll be going back to the store tomorrow and i'll be replacing them with some top line parts. its ridiculous the quality of some of the brake parts out there these days, stuff coming warped right out of the box. i put delco rotors and wagner thermoquiet ceramics up front and they work really well. the top line carquest shoes out back work well but the midline drums are complete crap.

 

 

 

edit....there not their

Edited August 1, 2011 by Dunner

[craigdritchie]

When I worked with Real Fishing we used to tow with Astro vans all the time. It would usually be a Lund in the 17 to 20 foot range, with a 75 to 200 hp outboard. Gross weight for the boat, engine, gear etc would range up to about 2,500 pounds. We'd pull these all over Ontario, and occasionally much farther afield, never with any problems at all.

 

We also towed Rangers up to 20 feet/225 hp (not sure of weight, I would guess 3,500 = 4,000 pound range) with the vans every now and then. It would work fine, but when you also had company Suburbans and Tahoes available for use, you would usually take one of those instead when pulling the heavier boats. The Astro vans would pull the Rangers no problem, but didn't stop them as well as the Suburban or Tahoe would. As long as you drove accordingly, it was no problem.

 

I think the key with the van is to ensure the hitch and trailer are set up properly. Most aren't - even bought new right from the dealer. If you're nor sure how to do this, go see a good RV dealer and pay them the $200 or so. Those guys pull huge, heavy trailers all the time and can do a whole lot to make your towing much easier and safer. It's totally worth the fee for a one-time set-up, and over time you'll likely get your money back in what you'll save on fuel, brakes and tires.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Craig_Ritchie

[SBCregal]

after running through my receipts quickly it looks like i used right around 900l of fuel to do the 5800km trip out east. that works out to right around 15.5l/100km or 15 and a bit mpg. thats towing a trailer weighing ~2000lbs, 2 people and gear/clothes.

[OhioFisherman]

CK truck? actually I believe the Safari-Astro shared the same platform as the S-10 pickup.

[Bernie]

The Astro/Safari had it's own chassis.

Unibody in design. It did share a very similar powertrain to the pickups however.

They were certainly a better choice at the time than the Caravan/Voyager or Aerostar/Windstar when it came to working them.

They were a little more difficult to work on from a mechanics perspective in some areas but they were mostly reliable and worked well.

Personally, my biggest beef with them was the small area of drivers foot room due to the large engine cover intruding inside.

[bubbles]

You should also consider the wheel base of the vehicle compared to the length of the trailer. There are recommended maximums.

 

Longer is better, pure and simple - for reasons related to both safety and comfort. That continual up and down bouncing you feel as you tow is (how clever a name!) is known as "trailer hitching" When you hit a bump with the tow vehicle, you will shortly get feedback for the towed vehicle as the tongue load increases or decreases momentarily. This is considerably better with a longer wheelbase tow vehicle.

From a safety standpoint, a longer wheelbase gives more resistance to "jackknifing". This is the tendency (semi trucks are notorious) for the tow vehicle to brake faster in a panic stop than the towed vehicle -boat in this instance. The tow vehicle starts to slow down at a faster rate, the boat keeps right on coming and tries to make the "jackknife" blade swing shut by trying to force the tow vehicle to "swap ends".

 

As others have mentioned, this might be the most important consideration in towing. If you tow with a short wheelbase vehicle and have no trailer brakes (or they don't work properly) you could be looking for trouble

[Uncle Buck]

anything will tow anything almost...

 

question is at what longevity and at what cost...