Big Cliff Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 No, they aren't worth it, the reason we have a debt retirement charge on our hydro bills is because of miss management and far too much money being paid out to people that don't deserve it. They tell us to cut back on our usage to save money then they raise the rates because revenue was going down and costs were going up. They tell us that we are only paying 5.9 cents PKWH but when you add in the cost to get it to them, the cost to get it to us, the debt retirement charge and the taxes on the dollars that I had left after the took away my income tax it works out to be closer to 15 cents per KWHR. Ahhh, I have to start thinking happy thoughts; fishing opens soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioFisherman Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 We are all aware of our auto worker debates so keep it civil. Just a different way of thinking between management in our countries and some others? Our management seems to be drive by greed? http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2006/0904/112.html The lean and compact Fukui, like all of his predecessors, is an engineer who started in R&D and later ran the subsidiary. While other auto chief-executives-to-be were punching keyboards in an accounting office, Fukui ran the company's motorcycle racing operations. He's still racing. He hikes the stairs to his tenth-floor desk--tenth floor so he's in the middle of things at Honda's 16-story Tokyo headquarters and a desk because executives at Honda don't have offices. Honda doesn't disclose executive pay in detail, but the sum of salaries and bonuses that Fukui shares with 36 board members, $13 million, is just about enough for the boss at a big American company. Says a lot when the top 36 guys at Honda make as much a only one top guy at GM? Certainly part of the problem here with the bailouts. I have no problems with keeping the Ameican auto companies in business for the most part. But to use our tax dollars to pay bloated salaries for the failed execs? Again more of a wide spread problem here just because of the number of people and amount of money changing hands. I think here every CEO thinks he deserves 10-20 million a year. We do have some good sites to track the campaign contributions, and it`s the same old story, follow the money. You can get a good idea of who is supporting who by the money trail. Unfortunately the average taxpayer is stuck with the check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holdfast Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 SALARY CAP. Maybe Obama has an Idea, 80 percent tax on any Salary over 120,000 a year including Bonuses. Yea I know, the greedy will run to Costa Rica once a year for a week and call it home. Like the Irvings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhunter Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Well, I'm two minds on this... 1. In order to attract a talent level capable of managing an enterprise like hydro or what ever, you have to pay competitve salary's to the private sector. Personally, I would rather have a highly educated, qualified individual running these corporations, than a low paid person, attemping to do the job. Now, before you all get high and mighty on me, I'm not say we are getting value for our money, I'm just saying that those types of positions carry a very high profile and mistakes can cost us, the public a great deal of time, money and well crap! Public corps have to compete with the private sector to get the best talent. 2. WE ARE NOT GETTING OUR MONEY'S WORTH! I don't think I would have a problem with those high salaries if we were getting our money's worth. Mis-management and government tinkering has made many of these public corps disfunctional. HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danc Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Who here would actually go to their respective employers and demand less pay? Not me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioFisherman Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 (edited) Headhunter, while I don`t disagree that people capable of running a large corporation well should be paid well, the same old question arises, when is enough, enough? Honda Motors, an apparently well run corporation feels 13 million is enough for 36 executives. They also apparently have no issues working for that sum. When a company or group of companies goes to the government, and taxpayers to bail them out of self inflicted problems, isn`t it time to rethink the salary positioning? Is it better to hire 5 people, delegate the authority, to get opposing view on a business decision or allow one extremely high paid exec to run the road to ruin? Also a factor is some of the people that sit on these boards that make these type of decisions sit on the boards for many companies. In part the "old boy" network, you appoint me here, I will appoint you there. Very lucrative work? If you can get it? A recent story here of board members making 270,000 a year, for 9 days a year of meetings. 30,000 a day? And then stories like this http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...9033101459.html At what point do you risk alienating your customers and employees? If these same CEO`s want to make the argument it is a global economy? Why doesn`t their pay reflect that? I personally would have no problem with our government capping CEO`s pay. They made the argument for global trade, if your going to talk the talk? walk the walk? Or use money and influence to buy your positioning? Why should US auto execs, given their history, feel that they should earn more than the execs at Honda or Toyota? Why should a US defense contractor pay it`s CEO millions? when it is the taxpayer footing the bill? Because the right political contribution allows it? Why does our government allow our drugs companies to pay their execs millions, and charge higher prices for the same drugs that Canada buys? Canada can negotiate drug price with our drug companies? But our government blocked the same option for our taxpayers? Just my view things need some adjustment, I don`t buy a product or service with the idea of overpaying an exec because he wants it. You have to believe if our president wanted that kind of money we could find someone to do the job cheaper, and possibly better. Edited April 1, 2009 by OhioFisherman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kemper Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Who here would actually go to their respective employers and demand less pay? Not me. thanks. I tried to say that earlier, no one caught it. If they ok a 6 figure salary...or 7 figure for that matter why the heck not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekend Warrior Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 (edited) Ya...salary caps are an awesome way to reward hard work There are people out there making a lot of money that have actually worked for it. Edited April 1, 2009 by Weekend Warrior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toronto_Angler Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Ya...salary caps are an awesome way to reward hard work There are people out there making a lot of money that have actually worked for it. I eblieve there already is a system of salary caps in some countries...I think the word is communism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch312 Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 They don't deserve that kind of coin, but teachers do. bahahaha...ill bet they do just another case of us bending over and taking it up the rear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhunter Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Well, a good example in my mind is politicians. Can anyone honestly say that we have the best minds in the counrty, in these very powerful positions? The best minds in politics now, are generally people who have succeeded in private business and have no real need for money. Atleast to my mind, that would be ideal. Bringing those talents to the public sector IMHO can only benefit the public. Salary should be commensurate with accomplishments. I guess I have a different perspective on things as in my day to day work, I have the opportunity to work with some of the very best at what they do and yes, by in large, they are handsomely paid. But when you equate the value they bring to their organizations, they are worth every penny. Now, I'm not saying that we are getting value for money spent, but I don't think you need th change the system, just the players. We are afterall in a suedo capitalist society. HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishermccann Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 How about bus drivers getting over 100,00.00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeXXington Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 No that I really think the money is the issue, but would you want a guy making $50 an hour resposible for a nuc plant? You always want the best person for the job, now do the rest of the employee's need to make over a 100,000 changing light bulbs in the office... thats where your waste comes from. Power workes union did that. Go green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioFisherman Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 LOL Headhunter, look at our leadership over the last 50 years or so, is it them that kept the country going or the people working for them? Us, the people that paid the bills? Can`t have one without the other? Since we now own the auto companies perhaps we should insist our governments hire the execs from Honda-Toyota? Double their pay and it`s still a bargain? Communism? LOL we have never seen communism, just thinly veiled dictatorships called communists. The so called communist are one of our largest trading partners, guess dirt cheap labor allows for faults? they can`t be all bad? Just Cuba? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tybo Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Ah, the old Blythe of the middle class against the rich. Alot of the best top exec don't come from money. Go too school for 4 to 9 years.do what ever it takes to make money to pay for your schooling. Get a internship from 1 to 3 years. Big salary their 0.00. Start climbing the corporate ladder. Now thats not cut throat. No room for mistakes. Loss your job and creditability. Years and years of climbing. Get to the point in life where most people are thinking of retirement,Your at the point in your careerer where you feel comfortable. Do a mistake get sent down the ladder. Almost forgot about the stress. Go a head give it a try.Put up every thing you have and give it a go. Did I mention theirs no room for Mistakes!! A rich friend told me. That he has to work harder to keep his fortune then it was to make it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Paul.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gbfisher Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Smart people make money.... but really smart people have others make it for them. More power to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 There's a reasonable expectation that remuneration/compensation will increase commensurately with the size of the hierarchy below the position, and/or the amount of responsibility assumed. Some of our big companies are so bloated with levels of labour, administration, management etc that the salaries at the top of the hierarchy are bound to be pretty crazy. Arguably the folks receiving the big salaries aren't actually worth the money but how can they be expected to take less than the people below them in the totem who assume less responsibility etc? And every once in a while the person at the top is actually a leader and perhaps worth the big bux. Besides, we're a materialistic society, and our success is judged by the size of our pay cheque and the size of our toys. The big number on those guys' cheques is more about their position of eminence rather than what they're really worth. That number is also a reflection of the company's stature in the industrial community. JF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomcat Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 The stranded debt that we hydro customers have been paying off with each hydro bill started out at 19.4 billion back in 2000. The last time I contacted Hydro for information about the size of the stranded debt was in Jan 2007. Their response included a statement that as of 31 Mar 06, the stranded debt was 19.3 billion. WOW! When you consider the amount of dollars paid towards the Debt Retirement Charge (DRC) every year by we consumers, you’d wonder why the stranded debt doesn’t decrease (you know – the way your mortgage principle decreases with payments). The reason this DRC does not decrease as rapidly as we would expect is that “the powers to be” keep adding to the debt. Back then, the OEFC estimated that the residual stranded debt would be paid off between 2012 and 2020. Whoever prognosticated 2012 was obviously dreaming in technicolour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cudz Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 This is my uncle. http://people.forbes.com/profile/paul-d-melnuk/63149 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCTFisher9120 Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Personally i think it is none of our business. What people's salary's are, are their own info and should not be told to the public in the first place...if i were in their shoes i would not be complaining. People work for what they earn and if they have been through thousands of dollars of schooling and many years of hard work, then the work to get there has most certainly paid off. Now we can only hope that they will give back to the economy and purchase things... Also in my opinion people that deserve salarys of that much should only be people that are doctors and surgents, after all you can't put a price on somebodys life and saving and extending on peoples lives is what these people do day after day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Personally i think it is none of our business. What people's salary's are, are their own info and should not be told to the public in the first place...if i were in their shoes i would not be complaining. People work for what they earn and if they have been through thousands of dollars of schooling and many years of hard work, then the work to get there has most certainly paid off. Now we can only hope that they will give back to the economy and purchase things... Also in my opinion people that deserve salarys of that much should only be people that are doctors and surgents, after all you can't put a price on somebodys life and saving and extending on peoples lives is what these people do day after day. Remember your words when it's your pockets being picked left right and centre. These are public servants, our employees if you will. We're entitled to know what they make (notice I didn't say earn). I agree with you about doctors and nurses too. I've seen some of the crap they have to deal with in hospitals. There's not enough money in the world to get me to work in a trauma unit, even if I had the training. JF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Posted April 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 If the free enterprise system worked properly wages should be self regulating. The hydro position isn't free enterprise. It is the people of Ontarios hydro. We pay it, out of our pockets, and I say its far out of line. Now if you own a business and you are earning it in the free market without a handout that is what our country was built on. It pushed people to do well. Now they just expect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holdfast Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Ya...salary caps are an awesome way to reward hard work There are people out there making a lot of money that have actually worked for it. Some, I would say the odd Doctor But Base-Ball Players making Millions? That I dont mind. But incompetants, that I do mind, especially if we the Tax payer is paying it, or the consumer is extra charged for Freddy Fat Cat to get his Bonus along with his Co- Conspiraters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holdfast Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 I eblieve there already is a system of salary caps in some countries...I think the word is communism What? The NHL is run by Communism, The RCMP, Military, are run by Communism? There could be a set Pay Guide in place like I was payed in the Military. You got paid by your Rank, nothing less nothing more except Time In within that Rank. Our Bonus, was an extra Qualification, for example, Airborne or Other Dangerous Trades. If you call it communism, who gives a Rats Ass. There is alot of greed going on that should be criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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