Rizzo Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 We had a staff member leave half a year ago because he could not tolerate management or his co-workers. Many staff refused to work with him. Basically, he was quite a capable employee, but an absolute cancer amongst the staff. His ability was the only reason he was not fired. In hindsight, he should have been fired because of how poorly he treated his peers. Morale is much improved since his departure. Now his potential new employer is contacting us for a "reference" for him. I am sure he did not list us as his reference as he "burned his bridge" when he left. Can you be honest and say that the individual has definite strengths/abilities but can not work in a team environment? Or will honesty only land you in hot water?
Daplumma Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 If you did not document his issues in his evals then you may be opening yourself up by telling the "truth" now.Document ,document ,document when you have a cncerous employee or you will have problems down the road. Joe
kickingfrog Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 Stick to the facts, and you still might find someone trying to take you to court. Does your company have a policy regarding past employees? Sometimes it's a privacy issue.
Guest ThisPlaceSucks Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 tell them what you told us.
Rizzo Posted January 29, 2009 Author Report Posted January 29, 2009 If you did not document his issues some were, because we had to sit him down every couple of months to discuss his attitude. We actually had a warning letter drafted because we were to the point of firing him, but then he beat us to it and quit. The letter was never presented to him.
solopaddler Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 some were, because we had to sit him down every couple of months to discuss his attitude. We actually had a warning letter drafted because we were to the point of firing him, but then he beat us to it and quit. The letter was never presented to him. Sounds as though you're good to go. Tell the truth.
motv8tr Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 I've been told by a supervisor that they are not allowed to "tell the truth" as it could lead to legal issues.....all they can do is confirm that a person worked for them, missed days, late days that sort of thing....sometimes you can say a lot by saying very little.... Maureen
Tarzan's Jane Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 I agree with telling the truth....but I also feel that too much can be too harmful. Perhaps he has thought about what went wrong while he was with you. You know....often what goes on at home is played out at work. The best you can do is answer the questions. Definitely mention his strengths and if there is a question that surfaces regarding his ability to work as a team player, well then that's where you can elaborate a bit....ending it by saying that it's quite possible he may have improved on that. I just think that in these hard times....the man has a possible employer checking his references...it looks good for him. Good Luck
douG Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) You are being contacted because you are a previous employer. I always return calls from potential employers of my ex staff. The caller is usually some HR weinie, adept at hearing what you are not saying. This means you can talk in terms of 'missed collaboration opportunities', 'continually improving interpersonal skills', and 'challenges to leadership focus'. They will get the point PDQ. If the questions get more pointed, and go beyond your comfort level or documentation, just quit the conversation. On the other hand, if you say you are not able to comment on your previous employee's performance and your opinion of same, I am pretty sure the message will be sent and received. Absence of any comment might be the most damaging comment possible. Someone poke that dude, he's done. Time to open a vegetable stand. Edited January 29, 2009 by douG
Radnine Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 Can you be honest and say that the individual has definite strengths/abilities but can not work in a team environment? Or will honesty only land you in hot water? I think that the first part would be a wonderful thing to say ("has definite strengths/abilities"). I mean imagine if he sorted out what ever was bothering him in the past and all that was left were the abilities. He would be a great employee for someone. And if he hasn't sorted them out, then he will be a good employee until he craps in his own cage at the new place. I don't see it as a reflection on you either way. Give him a break by helping to give him a chance at another new start. My $.02 since you asked. Jim
Terry Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) of course one could say, at this time I don't think I should discuss this individual until I seek legal advise. so at this time I will not comment on anything other then his years he service and his job description dang people type faster then me Edited January 29, 2009 by Terry
Gerritt Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 Murky waters here.... Alot of companies no longer provide references for fear of being sued... Give a ex-employee a good reference and he steals $10,000.00 from his new employer.... They hired him upon your reference... Give an employee a bad reference he can then challenge you for lost earnings potential... Best bet is to let them know that yes he/she did work for you, the length of time he was employed etc... and let them figure out the type of person he is. Any decent HR rep can figure out personality traits by using standardized testing available. Good luck G
Nanook Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 All you need to do is say that you 'would not re-hire him'. No names, no pack drill.
Rizzo Posted January 29, 2009 Author Report Posted January 29, 2009 All you need to do is say that you 'would not re-hire him'. took the words out of my mouth nanook. I had heard that a statement along these lines is an acceptable thing to say.
solopaddler Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 Give a ex-employee a good reference and he steals $10,000.00 from his new employer.... They hired him upon your reference... Give an employee a bad reference he can then challenge you for lost earnings potential... Wow, could that 1st scenario actually happen? I can't believe there would be any liability involved. The second point is sad if it's true. Don't see how he/she would have a leg to stand on if their work history was documented. I'm sick and tired of sidestepping issues with back talk and mumbo jumbo. I'm tired of having to be politically correct. The older I get the more I relate to this guy:
holdfast Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 We have terminated his services in this company for reasons that I will not to elaborate on the Phone. However if you would like to review any paperwork on him, I will get back to you.
tschirk Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 You can be sued for impeding his ability to pursue gainful employment, no matter how bad hew was. I like what Terry said....
Roy Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 Listen dude. If he's looking for employment at your firm, you must be one of my competitors. If I were you, I'd hire him in a heartbeat.
BUSTER Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 I've been told by a supervisor that they are not allowed to "tell the truth" as it could lead to legal issues.....all they can do is confirm that a person worked for them, missed days, late days that sort of thing....sometimes you can say a lot by saying very little.... Maureen bingo! confirm he worked for you and thats it.
Rizzo Posted January 29, 2009 Author Report Posted January 29, 2009 I mean imagine if he sorted out what ever was bothering him in the past and all that was left were the abilities oh man wouldn't that be nice...never gonna happen, but nice. I've never actually met anyone like this guy before. He guy drove female employees to tears on more than one occasion, and a number of the male staff refused to work with him. For the most part, pure evil. We regularly debated about firing him, but we feared losing the positives he brought to the table. If he had a job where he worked on his own, I'm sure he'd be a good employee. Make him work with others and he'll take you down from the inside...unfortunately in today's world you can't tell people either his strengths or his weaknesses!
snag Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 [/i]. The older I get the more I relate to this guy: I must be OLD! LOL!
John Bacon Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 Wow, could that 1st scenario actually happen? I can't believe there would be any liability involved. The second point is sad if it's true. Don't see how he/she would have a leg to stand on if their work history was documented. I'm sick and tired of sidestepping issues with back talk and mumbo jumbo. I'm tired of having to be politically correct. The older I get the more I relate to this guy: If you fired him for theft and then gave him a good reference, especially if you said that he was honest; it would make some sense to hold you liable. I am not sure what the actual legal ramifications.
irishfield Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 On the other hand, if you say you are not able to comment on your previous employee's performance and your opinion of same, I am pretty sure the message will be sent and received. Absence of any comment might be the most damaging comment possible. Someone poke that dude, he's done. Time to open a vegetable stand. Doug had you covered... it's the only safe response for someone that had anything other than stellar service to the/your company.
rbaquial Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 I've been told by a supervisor that they are not allowed to "tell the truth" as it could lead to legal issues.....all they can do is confirm that a person worked for them, missed days, late days that sort of thing....sometimes you can say a lot by saying very little.... Maureen Yeah, I agree to this... this is what I've always heard.
Big Cliff Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 After being an employer for many years I always appreciated (and kept confidential) any honest referances that I got from former employers. Being a smaller company a "bad hire" could cost us a lot of money, money that we couldn't afford. I was always very careful when phoning for referances to explain; who I was, that no written record was being kept of this conversation and that it would never be shared with anyone outside of this conversation, I would outline the job description, duties, and responsibilities then ask if they thought the person being considered would be an ideal candidate for such a position. Their response wasn't as important as their atitude in responding. When being called for referances I would only confirm that the person had worked with us, if they were a really good employee and left for a valid reason I would always mention that to the caller and indicate that if they were to ever want to return we would do our best to re hire them. If they were not a good emplyee I would simply state that I really couldn't stay anything more for legal/privacy reasons and fear of reprecussions. That usually got the message across loud and clear.
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