Question for the police officers on the board (NF)

[steverowbotham]

Here's my general rule ... 1.2

 

If you multiply the speed limit by 1.2, you will be fine

 

60 in a 50

72 in a 60

84 in a 70

96 in an 80

108 in a 90

120 in a 100

 

I find that this works pretty well

[bigfish1965]

I drive with the flow of traffic. Whatever everyone else is doing is the safest speed. I'm more concerned with guys doing 100 in a 100 zone during a snow storm than I am with people doing 125 in a 100 on a dry sunny day.

Police have whats called 'prosecutorial discretion' which is what allows them leeway in deciding who to pull over. Only time I got a silly ticket was doing a 51 in a 40. I think it was $28.00. By and large I salute and appreciate all the work our law enforcement officers do.

[Fisherman]

I agree.

Big different between "racing" and "speeding".

To me, its just another Bull money making thing, and also another "power tripping" thing for the cocky cops.

 

My wifes friend got caught under this law......she was on a back country road at 11:30 at night (after working 16 hrs that day), with NO ONE else around.....yet she was "street racing".

 

I guess the cop thought she was racing her shadow..???

Well the only thing I can say is you have some growing up to do..maybe you should do a couple of ride alongs and be part of the clean up crew. At 50+ over it's just a little harder to pick the pieces out oif the gravel or out from between a splintered telephone pole. Unless you've been to a couple of scenes of carnage, you don't have a clue of what you are spouting about.

[Governator]

If you're clocked on radar doing 50+ over the limit whether you are speeding or not should be an automatic license suspension and very large fine.

 

So many of you are saying stuff like "If you're on a country road by yourself late at night doing 50+ over that it's so much different than a street racer." While it may be different because you are putting less people at risk, you are still potentially putting yourself and others at serious risk.

 

When you're driving down that country road and another driver comes to a stop at a passing side street, he thinks your going 80KM/hr and says oh yea I can make it across no problem and starts to go. Little does he know the bonehead in the other car is actually going 30-40% faster then he SHOULD and gets T-Boned and killed....

 

OR how about a deer decides to jump out on that country road, sure you can say you only killed yourself and no one else, except the fact that your family now has to deal with your loss. OR perhaps you just lose control and wrap around a tree, yea fun stuff alright.

 

To try and shave off what.... 5min of your driving time to risk the life of others is a joke.

 

[/rant]

Edited September 30, 2008 by Governator

[Stoty]

LOL

 

I dont recall saying it was ok for her to be going 50+ km over the speed limit (because its not).

I said there's a difference between "racing" and "speeding".

 

Maybe put your reading glasses on, and re-read the post.

[tinbanger]

Not that I can add too much to this but for those speeders ( OR racers) try slowing down and see how your gas mileage improves , better yet drive smoothly and you'll have more gas for the boat .

 

I have NO problems with the Racing/Speeding law , fatalities have reduced 40% since it was introduced , coincidence ?, think again.

 

If you still think it unfair there are several hundred family members who would differ.

 

 

For the record and sake of the original post ..110 -118 on 400 series , 85-90 in 8o kph zones ,bang on the posted limit if lower ie My street !

no tickets for 6 years , QPP don't seem to like Ontario plates

 

 

TB

Edited September 30, 2008 by tinbanger

[Canuck2fan]

More like time of the month is the biggest factor, beginning of the month and end. Filling the quotas early so they can kick back, and scrambling to fill them with any charge they can find at the end. Rain, snow & fog is actually the best time to hit the gas, particulates screw up the radar.

 

Backroads you're usually pretty safe unless it's a known hotspot like the 507 or Big Chute.

 

Hello you are mistaken THERE ARE NO QUOTAS for tickets!!!!! According to two different Police Chiefs on Roy Green a while back.... The term is "suggested" minimums no quotas exist LOL. The best part was they both kept on saying that no matter how hard Roy pressed them.... I think they actually believed the lies they were telling.

[dannyboy]

Hello you are mistaken THERE ARE NO QUOTAS for tickets!!!!! According to two different Police Chiefs on Roy Green a while back.... The term is "suggested" minimums no quotas exist LOL. The best part was they both kept on saying that no matter how hard Roy pressed them.... I think they actually believed the lies they were telling.

 

That's correct, the police can issue as many tickets as they wish.

 

Dan

[Tinman]

Thank goodness for fire department plates! ....... although the lecture is most of the time far worse than any fine i have ever gotten! That was 2 weeks ago for speeding 15km over

Edited September 30, 2008 by Tinman

[camillj]

Well ...if you actually do the speed limit on the off ramp from the 407 onto 404 northbound you're likely to get CREAMED from behind ... it goes from 100 (which is really more like 110+ for most) down to 30KM ... and the ramp is almost a half a mile long .... and I have seen ...more than a few times ...a friendly cruiser waiting just behind the first bend .... even when you 'crawl along' at your peril, you can easily be doing 25 - 30 over and have an 18 wheeler smoking up your rear .... in that case I would say theres probably more than a few who get the 'racing' charge where really they just didnt slow down fast enough.... 407 onto 427 south is the same deal ...slow down from 120 to 70 on a mile long straghtaway ....but then the old rule applies .. I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried away by 6

[bukee]

Couple of weekends ago drove up to Huntsville from TO with two hunting buddies for the Central Onario Waterfowl Opener. We drove up Friday night to stay in a hotel and be fresh in the morning to hunt. On the way up a small Pontiac rips by us as we are doing 100km close to Webers. Sure enough couple kms later, the Pontiac is pulled over by 2 OPP. Anyway at the Hotel we are outside chatting and start talking to a early 20's fellow, who states he's not doing to well because his buddy just got pulled over. We all say ahh you were in the Pontiac. Sure enough he let his buddy drive his car from T.O. going to North Bay. They get stopped doing 178km/h in a 90km zone and to top it off the driver blows over because as the kid says "they just finished the first case between them". This kids actually asking if we think his buddy will get out that night and if he would get the car back...lol. Needless to say his buddy wasn't going anywhere for a while. 178km and 12 beers on Hwy 11, nuts lucky they still are alive.

[Photoz]

THERE'S one that richly deserves what he got. Can you imagine him trottin' around the bush with a loaded shotgun, IF the cops hadn't got him?

[fishing n autograph]

That's correct, the police can issue as many tickets as they wish.

 

Dan

 

HAHAHA i like that....i usually say yeah, i'm 2 away from the toaster....lol

 

Your right. There are NO quotas for municiple forces. I was told by the local O Dots that they have to get a minimum of 2 per block......

 

For us we set goals and try to achieve them.....

 

 

As for the stunt driving law....50 over is only 1/20th of that law..... along with drifting, donuts, race on a bet along w/ 4 other types of racing, jumping the light, driving with someone in the trunk, lifting one or more wheels off the road way, weaving in and out of traffic, bumper tag, chasing someone etc etc... all are 7 day suspensions, 7 day impounds, and a fine STARTING AT $10,000....

 

mind you 99% of 50+ get pled down to 49 over

 

The worst part is that the majority of people I pull over have the worst excuses...i'm late for work, i'm late to pick up my kids etc....if you're late, leave earlier don't push your car

Edited October 1, 2008 by FishnNAutographs

[CLofchik]

What everybody always seems to forget in discussions about this nifty new section to the HTA is that THERE ISN'T A SINGLE ITEM IN IT THAT WASN'T ALREADY COVERED BY EXISTING LAWS. It's a frightening shortcut of the usual parliamentary system to fast track a provincial money making machine.

 

Global is running a series on 203 this week on the 6pm news, so far there's been 2900 cases that have gone through the system. The conviction rates break down into 20/40/40. 40% convicted, 40% plead down to lower charges, 20% innocent.

 

The last one is what burns me the most. You're looking at around $1200 for towing, impound and license reinstatement, that's BEFORE you ever get into a court room, and there's NO WAY to get any of that back if exonerated. So far that's almost SEVEN HUNDRED THOUSAND raped from peoples pockets this year, just on the word of a cop at the side of the road. If those levels stay the same for all 8500 charged so far we're looking at $2,000,000 for PEOPLE COMPLETELY INNOCENT OF THE CHARGE. Then we come to those who were plead down, usually to 49km/h over. This is where the "transition zone" comes in. Where 100 or 80km/h limits drop and rise at the apparent drop of a random hat. My personal favourite is the garbage truck caught "racing" at 102km/h in a 50 zone. That the 200m long zone is in the middle of nowhere at the intersection of two dead straight barren roads doesn't matter. Has there ever been an accident there....ever? Probably not, but hey it's all in the name of "safety". How would you like to be out of pocket for that tow bill? Was the driver of the truck convicted? Nope, plead down.

 

Get a motorcycle, they pull you over at any speed for that "routine" check.

 

I don't think I've ever had a cop measure the tread depth on any of the cars I've been driving when I get pulled over, seen it three times so far this year on the bike. It's a favourite of the cops along the Grand, Guelph, Waterloo/Kitchener & Brantford. Those guys amp up the definition of "fishing".

 

And then there's the whole whack of other actions that can get you charged with "stunting", and these seem to hit bikers the hardest. 50 over is the one aspect that everybody focuses on, but there's a ton of other things that you can be burnt with, they are:

Definition, “stunt”

 

3. For the purposes of section 172 of the Act, “stunt” includes any activity where one or more persons engage in any of the following driving behaviours:

 

1. Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to lift some or all of its tires from the surface of the highway, including driving a motorcycle with only one wheel in contact with the ground, but not including the use of lift axles on commercial motor vehicles.

 

2. Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to cause some or all of its tires to lose traction with the surface of the highway while turning.

 

3. Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to spin it or cause it to circle, without maintaining control over it.

 

4. Driving two or more motor vehicles side by side or in proximity to each other, where one of the motor vehicles occupies a lane of traffic or other portion of the highway intended for use by oncoming traffic for a period of time that is longer than is reasonably required to pass another motor vehicle.

 

5. Driving a motor vehicle with a person in the trunk of the motor vehicle.

 

6. Driving a motor vehicle while the driver is not sitting in the driver’s seat.

 

7. Driving a motor vehicle at a rate of speed that is 50 kilometres per hour or more over the speed limit.

 

8. Driving a motor vehicle without due care and attention, without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway or in a manner that may endanger any person by,

 

i. driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to prevent another vehicle from passing,

 

ii. stopping or slowing down a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates the driver’s sole intention in stopping or slowing down is to interfere with the movement of another vehicle by cutting off its passage on the highway or to cause another vehicle to stop or slow down in circumstances where the other vehicle would not ordinarily do so,

 

iii. driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to drive, without justification, as close as possible to another vehicle, pedestrian or fixed object on or near the highway, or

 

iv. making a left turn where,

 

(A) the driver is stopped at an intersection controlled by a traffic control signal system in response to a circular red indication;

 

( at least one vehicle facing the opposite direction is similarly stopped in response to a circular red indication; and

 

© the driver executes the left turn immediately before or after the system shows only a circular green indication in both directions and in a manner that indicates an intention to complete or attempt to complete the left turn before the vehicle facing the opposite direction is able to proceed straight through the intersection in response to the circular green indication facing that vehicle. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 3.

 

So if you're riding a bike for a few hours, your leg gets tired and you stand on the pegs to give them a stretch........oooops you're now a "stunter" because you've left the seat. Sounds stupid right? Well atleast one poor sod has been busted for that, by over zealous cops looking to use these new nifty powers at every opportunity they can. And they are stretching those fuzzy definitions as far as they can.

 

I have NO problems with the Racing/Speeding law , fatalities have reduced 40% since it was introduced , coincidence ?, think again.

 

Um....yeah......right

Maybe a 100% increase on gas prices over two years might have something to do with less people driving less distance and crashing less? 96% of accidents happen at 20km/h over or less, that's the stat that Cam Wooley will NEVER give in a sound bite. Because if 296 fatalities out of 300 don't have anything to do with speeding, golly gee our whole money making traffic enforcement system might be in jeopardy. No more officers, no more planes, and alot less revenue.

 

Because traffic enforcement in this province, with it's artificially low limits (the lowest in North America), with the highest fines, is all about revenue generation and NOTHING to do with safety.

[hawkeye]

I think that over half this horse hooey would stop if the speed limits were reasonable and enforced. Just about everyone knows you can get away with 120KPH on a 400 series highway so why not have the speed limit at 120 and enforce the damn thing.

 

And eliminate the speed trap variations, 80 drops to 60 and then back to 80 with no rhyme or reason except to fill some cop’s quota

[tinbanger]

again no reason to be 5o km over . I 'm surprised none of you complainers have argued how 'unfair' the construction zone speed limits are and that they are 'traps' to fill quotas.Same with school zones

Oh and while your at it why should you bother slowing down and or changing lanes for stopped emergency vehicles.

 

Life is so unfair

 

TB

[BillM]

I think the 50+ fines are great, but saying someone is 'streetracing' while doing a buck 50 down the 400 is just stupid. Another law put into place by people who couldn't define 'streetracing' to save their own life.

 

50 over anywhere is insane, especially on a backroad.. Good luck getting the car stopped when Mr.Buck decides to step out in front of you. The good thing however is that you'll only end up killing yourself and not some other innocent person.

[steverowbotham]

I think the 50+ fines are great, but saying someone is 'streetracing' while doing a buck 50 down the 400 is just stupid. Another law put into place by people who couldn't define 'streetracing' to save their own life.

 

50 over anywhere is insane, especially on a backroad.. Good luck getting the car stopped when Mr.Buck decides to step out in front of you. The good thing however is that you'll only end up killing yourself and not some other innocent person.

 

And the good thing about that, is that your family will not care either ....

[danbo]

SPEED KILLS.

[BillM]

Can't blame anyone other then the idiot behind the wheel. If he didn't think of his family or perhaps what life would be like without him/her, I don't feel any pity at all.

[danbo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQWPeCDTiUA

[kemper]

I think the street racing law is great, if it was actually used to target STREET RACERS.

 

Which are a tiny small percentage of the deaths on the roads anyways...but that is a whole different story.

 

I was at a car club with a friend of mine one night, the club he belongs to is a very responsible one and their mantra is simple "Keep it on the track". This particular night a police officer shows up and claims he is from some "street racing prevention division" (whether this actually exists or not I am not sure) and starts searching/pulling cars apart looking for illegal parts and such. Fair enough, I suppose... except he keeps going back to this binder full of "rules" and attempting to change/fix laws in order to charge the owners of these vehicles. There was many tickets laid that night, some deserved but most NOT. Almost 100% of the tickets were shown innocent in the courts simply because this officer had so sickly twisted the definitions of the laws. There was also the fact that when asking about cars the guy couldnt even properly identify the make, mazdas were GMs and Nissans were Fords. I guess it is hard to explain, but this officer really had NO CLUE what he was talking about that night, and i DO NOT BLAME HIM. If you are going to send officers out to bust potential street racers, at least train them properly.

 

It was a very bizarre situation, maybe one of the officers here can shed light on this "street racing prevention division"?

 

the whole thing seemed kinda fishy to me.

[ozaibak1]

Someone can get killed by 'Mr. Buck' doing the speed limit down the highway, they don't gotta be speeding. But using your logic at least they only kill themselves anyways and no one else cares right, maybe it happens to you!!! It makes me sick that you think its ok for someone to lose their life for speeding, and actually sorta sound happy about it.

[ozaibak1]

'Killing yourself' is a 'good thing.' You sound sorta sick bud.

[ozaibak1]

Speed limit is only part of the equation, the other part is the ppl behind the wheel. Sadly in Canada our drivers for the most part suck and don't know how to drive.

 

One only needs to look at Germany, where there are NO SPEED LIMITS, and compare traffic deaths per capita to realize speed itself is only one factor and not the whole deal.