pikehunter Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 If the kid has something to offer for sale then it is technically not panhandling. I see what you are saying, there is a lot of this going on everywhere we go. If it is a "charitable" cause I don't care for I don't buy anything. If I don't feel like buying anything then I don't buy. If I know the kid or the kid's family I buy. If it is out and out panhandling then I give nothing. I can remember my son going to New Brunswick for the Eastern Canada Basketball Championship, (they took gold BTW ) when he was about 13. We had to pay for them to go as none of the parents could raise any corporate donations...have you ever tried raising funds for basketball in Canada? Hockey would have been a much easier sale! The team did however get an old school bus donated for the trip by the Lions Club but had to pay wages, meals and accommodations for 2 drivers. The team decided not to try the candy sales or a carwash or other means of funding. If corporate didn't give then we all had to pay out of pocket which I had no problem with. When my son went to California for High School basketball we paid out of pocket for him to go, no funds were donated. I really hate and detest the stores that hit you up for a donation at the cash register. That really bugs me. I always say no to them. Then you get that "look" from the cashier because stores like Walmart make it a contest between the cashiers to see who can generate the most contributions so they can hope to win a 10 cent pin for their vest. Why should I donate my pennies to the store so that they can give the money and they look good? As for the chocolate bar fund raising it is a bit of a scam. The ones making the most profit is the company that organizes the drive and sells the candy to the charitable group.
Canuck2fan Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 No one has mentioned one of the biggest "fund raising" scams here in Ontario..... Hospitals that charge for visitors parking. Here it is only 4 bucks but I resent the heck out of them for what I see as them holding patients as hostages. If you want to see a loved one or friend you have to pony up that money to do it, or walk about a 1/4 mile from the closest free parking area nearby. Which I do. However it really gets to me when you see seniors who you know are on a really tight budget having to come up with that 4 dollars twice a day, because they kick out all visitors for 2 hours in the afternoon unless you are in pallative care.... Sometimes this can go on for a few weeks for these seniors who can't do the long walk from the free area so they must pay just to visit their spouse. Another factor in my disliking this unnecessary money grubbing, is that for a while I worked for a company that provides catered meals and we would be dropping off expensive platters two to three times a week to the same department of the hospital. One day I recognized a woman so I asked her what the platters were for. She says, OH these are for the fund raising commitee members they are planning what kinds of fund raisers we will be having this year." I thought hum maybe having everybody bring a brown bag lunch might be a good start, on saving some money if the budget is tight.... (As a side note about 6 months later she got "fired" when the hospital brought in a fund raiser from the Big Smoke who cleaned house to bring in her friends. They put her on administrative leave for 4 months wouldn't allow her to work but she got paid then the woman got 9 months severence even though she had been working there for just over 3 years......) No wonder the hospital here needs to raise any money they can by hook or by crook.
charlied Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 $50 to you any time Roy. Both are R's. Voted for both and contributed to their campaigns. Last week I listened to a single mother of three discussing her earned income tax amount and she was trying to receive it early. She pays 0 tax, gets credit for paying around $3320 in Social Security and Medicare, but still gets an earned income tax check from the government for around $2800. She drives a 2007 car and is making payments on a three year old, 4 bedroom house. When I asked her which president enacted the earned income tax credit she had no idea that Ronald Reagan was the guy. She thought it was probably Jimmy Carter because he really cares about helping people. There's a lot more, but so little space. WOW...this woman really knows how to work the system...its to bad she doesn't care about the 4 member family she just took money from that is on the street homeless! This is a very good thread! I too get annoyed with all this cause I was a top Canadian track and field athlete right up until I was 26 years old....now if I was standing out front of a super market or CTC at age 24 asking for money would you feel the same way about giving your money away....doubt it! They know to send out the young kids and for most of them it is embarrasing to them to have to do it. When I was training I had to work 50-60 a week and train 30 a week and yes I know I was not a kid so I had to work but I never once begged for money or sold choco bars. I know we have to support or minor sport systems but that should be done thru the government and not the kids. Not much I can do about it so I won't say anymore. Thanks for starting this thread...got things off my chest and now I feel better....LOL.
Bernie Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 21 Years ago in the wee hours of a very cold morning my son was born, my mother was returning from the hospital to home. In our small town she came across two guys not dressed for the weather a block from her home. She did not know who they were but stopped and asked them if they were ok. They said they were hitchhiking to Timmins and were dropped off at Powassan. Well at that time of morning NOTHING is open,not even the police station. She could tell they needed help. She told them to get in the car and took them home. She fed them and housed them until morning,gave them each a warm coat and away they went. Several weeks later they showed up at her house, thanked her profusely for saving them that morning. They also left a note with a 100 bucks in it without her seeing it (she would not have accepted it had she known). That kind of charity is rare.
TennesseeGuy Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 Charlied, the main culprit is the deadbeat dad who is contributing nothing to raising the children.
lew Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 Bernie, what a wonderful story that was !!!! This world would be a far better place if we had more folks like your Mom.
Guest gbfisher Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 Hey Roy...How's that song go? Money for nothing and your ...........
Headhunter Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 Interesting topic, I have a bit of a different take on the situation. As my wife is a school administrator, I have some inside knowledge as to the school's approach. It's all about funding or should I say a lack there of! Field trips etc... are not being properly funded by the school boards/Ontario government, it has to do with the funding formula established by the Harris government. Our kids are then forced/asked to help raise funds for the school. I personally don't think it is such a bad idea as it teaches kids the value of a dollar and helps to prepare them for the big bad world outside of school. We live in a capitalist society and the sooner they learn that, the better off they will be. IMHO! I have no patience for folks asking for money for nothing, the world doesn't work that way... when ever I am aksed for change or a smoke, I ask them if they have even a shred of dignity left in them... those that say no, usually need help! Those that don't answer, well, they really actually have! HH
Cookslav Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) I refuse to give cash donations 9x out of 10 to street greeters... If its a kid Sports team saving for a trip, I am definitely not giving a cent. League trips are paid for in the initial fee's Paid upfront, its the "Extra" tournys and trips that incur extra costs. Considering there are programs to cover those fee's for under privileged children in most municipalities and Rep leagues that are "WELL" funded I can't condone donating...epecialy considering these programs generaly run a surplus most years (I know this as a former Coach and city volunteer who has seen these funds used) Heck, The parents of the more "well off" kids might as well be out selling the candy cause the proceeds are saving them cash in the end not the kids. As for Squeegee kids, baggy bottom hustlers, and fraternity clans....I usually politely say no thanks, but.... I have offered some sound life experience oriented advice in the past instead such as: Cut your hair, take a shower, loose the facial piercing, cover the Tats on your face and neck, pull up your pants, wear clean clothes that fit you, loose the Ghetto tough guy slang, get off the drugs, and turn that frown upside down...people like smiles Now If you can handle that and catch a quick bus ride down to the job bank you should be set kid. Do you have enough change in your $200 back pack to cover that, or would you like my bar of soap to get your self started? Cripes they have enough gumption to stand outside in the cold or the hot sun all day... At the very least could they not go out and hold one of those "slow/Stop" signs on a road crew or something? I can always use a few good dishwashers to boot. Anyway, I hear you Roy.... Were I struggle is the obviously Mentally ill homeless. I could give them some change and get them a coffee, or buy a sandwich for them but it only goes so far. It breaks my heart to see them and know full well there is no real help for them in our legal, health, or help systems....they get my change every time, and more sometimes. When I compare this situation with a Baggy pants street hustler....there is NO comparison, and in case you couldn't tell it gets WAY under my skin! Edited February 5, 2008 by Cookslav
LeXXington Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) Oh this thread could go on and on.. The please pay for my kid to attend ??? , support this and pay that etc.. drives me crazy Couple things.. Never give to the corporate world they would like you to donate a buck with your timmies, groceries, Wal-Mart's etc. in the name of ?????? I am I being heartless.. nope. Cause they use your money to support their promotions. Now if they match 1 for 1 ok but how many do this most of the time you see the sign.. Wal-Mart gave $$$$ to charities (pity most was from you). Yes even timbits, great idea but marketing too. At the grocery store. Getting some charity asking please donate to Madd Canada. (oops kid was hired by a company to stand there and ask for donations, oops the company that hired him took some their cut) actual money that went to the charity... So now we have this, We go too the heart and stroke charity.. How many millions in the bank yet we hear oh please give we need your money.. No we have no plans to spend the money.. Wait lets give our directors a large raise and bonus for making the charity numbers. My daughter attended a daycare that had subsidised slots. We do not get the subsidy. Then we are asked to start selling the cookies, cakes, etc.. excuse me we are paying full cost for a service, try going to your mechanic and saying please fix my car then he tells you sure, but can you sell these cookies while I work on it. Everyone tries to get their hand in my pocket for something.. I have no issues giving a Hand-up, not a hand out. Charities have become a business of themselves not the greater good. Pan handling should be banned. Salvation army, Red cross, Doctors without boarders these are charities something with a goal and outcome. Give direct not when someone ask you on the street to give. They say charity starts at home, so why ask me for money when you have not checked your own home first. Edited February 5, 2008 by LeXXington
muskymatt Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 I can see your points for squeegee kids or panhandlers. But kids who need extra help because of lack of school funding, who want to do the extras the schools don't pay for. I guess non achedimics are not important. Or kids who's parents pay 1000's of $$$ to play sports and keep them out of malls and crime who want to paticipate in an out of town tourny and need extra funds. Or the single parent who works just to feed the kids and would like sports to be part of their upbringing but can't afford it. How about Scouting Canada who clean up riverbanks, plants trees and so on , but need to raise funds to go to camp. Maybe it'd be better off to ignore them , let them sit in the malls or hang out in parks at 11pm doing no good. Video games and TV for you kids cause I'm too cheap to give a buck cause I need to upgrade my GPS and by my 12th rod and reel. What a bunch of stuffed shirts.....remember these kids are our future
Terry Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 group hug when my kids came home with things to sell for school stuff we bought it and never let them try to sell it to friend and what not.... it you make the kids then be prepared to pay for them quit sponging off everyone else I don't understand why so many people think everyone else should support their children
irishfield Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 Thanks Terry.. you saved me some typing !
muskymatt Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 group hug when my kids came home with things to sell for school stuff we bought it and never let them try to sell it to friend and what not.... it you make the kids then be prepared to pay for them quit sponging off everyone else I don't understand why so many people think everyone else should support their children My household combined income is over 150g...My kids are raised and live at home...nobody supports my kids but me and my wife. If one of the many activities they are involved in seeks financial assistance outsite the group or parents that's up to them. How can you liken that to somebody else supporting my kids or sponging? Whatever!! Kind of messed up IMO.
Cookslav Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 But kids who need extra help because of lack of school funding, who want to do the extras the schools don't pay for. We should tread lightly here...thats loaded topic in its self. I'll admit I do understand the thought, but some might argue the funding is or was adequet, whilst the direction it took in spending may not have been... Or kids who's parents pay 1000's of $$$ to play sports and keep them out of malls and crime who want to paticipate in an out of town tourny and need extra funds. Sure its all good.....Same with the single parent arguement. Like I said though, there is a lot of funding out there to be used with out my donations....just seems most people are too proud to take it? I guess its easier to have the kids hit up the public and save some face then ask for readily available assistance? But that just covers the needy kids anyway...what about the rest of the team? You do realixe The Moms and Dads who make 6 figures a year get a portion of that cash too cause their little billy is on the teamand sold a Chocolate bar? No thanks, I'll buy a Mars bar instead of the chocolate covered almonds this time, and just continue to pay my taxes, and give to a regulated Charity. Allthough I suppose on the other side of the coin the idea of getting the kids to earn their trip is good... I've been hit up enough for donations, and everyone has a cause these days...you can give to some, or all if you prefer. Not me... guess I'm a stuffed shirt. Guess the 15 years I've volunteered "MY TIME" to flood outdoor city rinks, and "TEACH" kids how to play hocky on the outdoor rinks, and the 7 Years of volunteer Coaching Hockey Teams wasn't quiet is important or as impactfull as buying a $5 chocolate bar to send someone elses rich kid to Buffalo for a weekend hockey tournament that I "KNOW" the parents will enjoy as much or more then the children...cause after the game they will drink their faces off at the hotel in the evenings and spend each and every one of those $5 chocolate bars on their chicken wings LOL!!! Its the truth, Been there....done that. At the end of the day a kids sports team is not a charity I'll support, but the Scouts planting tree's, or doing Community work...thats a different story all together. Cheers,
Kirk Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 Everyone has a cause Roy... Surprised to see you ranting on this because OFC (and you in particular) have your causes that you don't mind promoting. Kids sports is just as worthy as some of the other causes I've seen here, without getting into it further. (Tyler's event being a separate event as it is extremely worthy) I see a kid fundraising and I give whatever change I got...or more of a donation for groups I am familiar with...calling kids panhandlers is totally uncalled for, especially when it could be applied to some 'cause of the day' who are adults, which you might take offense to as its your pet project. Whats a 7 year old supposed to do, incorporate a company and sell shares...they sell chocolate. If a kids sports tournament is in a remote location, there will be kids in the group that may not be able to afford the trip, or there may be adult volunteers that donate their time and should not be expected to also dip into their own funds to supervise these kids. A smile and a no thanks also works. Yours truly, Dad
capt bruce Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 Thanks Cookslav , Terry , as My typeing is not very fast . I thought I was the only one paying for my children anymore . My children MY RESPONSEABLITY , they do and go where we can afford and Im sorry Matt but they dont hang around malls , and its not because someone bought a cholate bar . Its because I make sure they have an interesting life and NO ONE HAS TO DONATE crap so I can do this . SORRY but thats the way I see it ..
Terry Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 I wasn't talking about you just the whole thing and about the parents that say they can't pay...and need support do they smoke...bet they do..do they drink...you got it..but yeah lets have you and me pay for their kids.... I never had the gov. pay for daycare or give money back for it..now that my kids are gone they do and I am paying for it..thats bull too..
muskymatt Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) Kids should be given every opportunity to be involved in as much in their short childhood as they can. And as long as I 've been on this earth fundraising has been a part of being a kid...bottle drives...carwashes....chocolate bars...etc. Wheather it be because of lack of funding or no money at home they should still get the opportunity to be involved who cares what the reason is. It's beyond me the comment about someone else raising/supporting having responsibitily for someone elses kids....come on were talking about a couple bucks now and then so a kid can do something constructive and be involved. I went in Macdonalds and got a bunch of job applications that I hand out to squeegee kids and you should see the sneers I get. Sometimes I offer them a job cleaning up at my job site and they say no....these people will never get a dime from me ...but a kid who wants to have a couple bucks for a group endevor...I'll give every time. And I never once think I'm raising someone elses kids Edited February 5, 2008 by muskymatt
daisy_girl58 Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 I find alot of kids these days are rude.... I play on this multi-player game where there is alot of age 10-15 year olds who play.....I have never seen such a disrespectful bunch of kids, my daughter who is 26 plays on there and she will say, Mom if i ever did that you would have stunted my growth..... The point is these kids think you need to just give it to them, and furthermore my Husband has an onsite computer business and he said that he hears kids cussing and screaming at there parents alot....whoaaaaaaaaaa.......China bound when I dug the hole for you @#$%!!!!! But there is some great kids out there too, who have morals and values and deeply respect parenting.... Ok my rant.... Lorissa
Landlocked Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 Delicate subject for sure. Being a small business owner sure gives you lots of perspective on this as we are bombarded with charity requests, sponsorships etc. We've decided to keep the $$ local and have the same outlook with our personal contributions. Ask some of those "volunteers" where they're from and you'll be surprised with the answers.
ecmilley Posted February 5, 2008 Report Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) The only charity i give to is the salvation army, as far as i am concerned they actually help people. As for school fundraising that's a tough call, i do get tired of the door knockers and getting hasseled outside the beer/liqour store, ct and the grocery store, but i am an adult an simple NO suffices without causing me any problems. I remember doing skate-a-thons and run-o-thons and various other charitable events as a kid for heart and stroke, terry fox and such and they were good causes to get involved in, but for the most part i don't remember having to fund raise for the school to play hockey or go on a trip, usualy paid out of my own pockets (ok my parents pockets) to do these activities. I pay enough taxes now, where does all the money go? it just seems like everytime the goverment increases funding the teachers then the caretakers go on strike to claim the extra funds anyway. Edited February 5, 2008 by ecmilley
fishforfun Posted February 6, 2008 Report Posted February 6, 2008 Good topic Roy and I hear you! Having been a volunteer in minor sports for over 32 yrs now I see a different side. A 10 yr old player who has what it takes to be there but the parents don't, do I cut him? Sports, hockey in particular are very expensive the kids good, the parents are broke? My teams fundraise but I find garage sales and dances etc more appropriate. When you watch Canada at the world juniors believe me 1or 2 have been helped along the way. So the kid with $200 Nikes may think he's helping himself but really he's helping his team mate, a reality that we don't want kids to know, rich and poor are adult problems not something that kids need to be reminded of the ones with no money are struggling enough.
FishFinder Posted February 6, 2008 Report Posted February 6, 2008 Everyone has a cause Roy... Surprised to see you ranting on this because OFC (and you in particular) have your causes that you don't mind promoting. Kids sports is just as worthy as some of the other causes I've seen here, without getting into it further. Very good point, I was thinking the same thing as I read through this thread.
lew Posted February 6, 2008 Report Posted February 6, 2008 We have a couple charities that we support on a regular basis throughout the year, then we also give to the Sally Ann at Christmas, the Legion in November and who could resist the Boy Scout apple drive or the Girl Guide cookies (I can eat a box myself in one sitting) but we pretty well draw the line there. I almost never give to kids knocking on my door or those who are waiting for me at the entrance of what seems like nearly every store I approach. You just have to pick & choose who or what you want to support and then basically cut it off after that point or you'll have your hand in your pocket most of the day....in Toronto anyways. As for squeegee kids, street people, whiners, beggers and bums.....nope, nada, ziltch
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