Fisherman Posted May 20, 2023 Report Share Posted May 20, 2023 (edited) A water fuel separator would alleviate the ethanol fuel problem by about 99%. Racor makes them for a variety of motors. In my Yamaha F40 manual recommends min 86 Octane, no high test is required. I'd check with some of your local marinas to see which one still carries non ethanol regular. As for additives, I only use Sea Foam available at most car part places, CTC, etc. At the end of the year, I drain the tank, hose and get as much out of the motor as I can. Edited May 20, 2023 by Fisherman 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akaShag Posted May 20, 2023 Report Share Posted May 20, 2023 11 hours ago, Fisherman said: A water fuel separator would alleviate the ethanol fuel problem by about 99%. Racor makes them for a variety of motors. In my Yamaha F40 manual recommends min 86 Octane, no high test is required. I'd check with some of your local marinas to see which one still carries non ethanol regular. As for additives, I only use Sea Foam available at most car part places, CTC, etc. At the end of the year, I drain the tank, hose and get as much out of the motor as I can. Thanks buddy. Do you put Sea Foam in every tank of fuel? Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Posted May 20, 2023 Report Share Posted May 20, 2023 Yes, about a shot glass worth. Same for my ATV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captpierre Posted May 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2023 10 minutes ago, Fisherman said: Yes, about a shot glass worth. Same for my ATV. Where do you come up with a shot glass per tank? The Seafoam website says to use their Marine Pro version at 1oz per 6 litres for regular use. Double that for more aggressive cleaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrowMan Posted May 20, 2023 Report Share Posted May 20, 2023 Myself, for all my bigger motors (boats, SeaDoos, ATVs) that have fuel injection, I don't bother putting in an additive with every fill up...only if they're going to be unused or stored for awhile. Also when stored, I always leave them with full tanks...to prevent condensation. With engines that are carbeurated (in my case, mostly smaller motors like lawnmowers, chainsaws and weedwackers), I do use StarTron regularly (1oz in a 5 gallon jerry can...double that for the first tank of the season). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captpierre Posted May 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Fisherman said: Yes, about a shot glass worth. Same for my ATV. Where do you come up with a shot glass per tank? The Seafoam website says to use their Marine Pro version at 1oz per 6 litres for regular use. Double that for more aggressive cleaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captpierre Posted May 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2023 Hard to know what to use. Companies make all kinds of claims based on sketchy, biased research. My local marina recommends Startron. Found this on line. 🤷🏻♂️ https://www.thedrive.com/reviews/28046/best-fuel-stabilizers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrowMan Posted May 20, 2023 Report Share Posted May 20, 2023 6 minutes ago, captpierre said: Hard to know what to use. Companies make all kinds of claims based on sketchy, biased research. My local marina recommends Startron. Found this on line. 🤷🏻♂️ https://www.thedrive.com/reviews/28046/best-fuel-stabilizers Years ago, the best mechanic I know recommended StarTron to me...used it ever since. It's $20 for 16oz...but that will treat over 80 gallons of fuel...for my use just in small engines and winter storage it's a good investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Posted May 20, 2023 Report Share Posted May 20, 2023 1 hour ago, captpierre said: Where do you come up with a shot glass per tank? The Seafoam website says to use their Marine Pro version at 1oz per 6 litres for regular use. Double that for more aggressive cleaning. Oh lets say, I don't over do it except for start of the season. Then I never use a full tank for a days fishing, maybe 1/3 so about 7 litres, so I add about a shot glass and refill with regular gas. Maybe I should have indicated that at the start. Knock wood, I've never had a fouled carb or injector system, I'm pretty anal about keeping the gas cans and boat tank sealed and very clean. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrowMan Posted May 20, 2023 Report Share Posted May 20, 2023 Also...I know there's differing opinions on whether to drain your tank for winter storage or not....but again, my mechanic buddy recommended to leave it almost completely full with an additive. I basically follow this process: https://www.discoverboating.com/resources/winterizing-your-boats-fuel-tank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickingfrog Posted May 20, 2023 Report Share Posted May 20, 2023 I filled my boat tank this week and I still used Shell premium, but now that it "may contain" ethanol and that was really the only reason I used it, I'm going to check my motor manual and see if can use lower test and just use additives to help with the ethanol. I never really used enough fuel in a season to worry about the added cost of premium but if I can keep a few bucks in my pocket why not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickingfrog Posted May 20, 2023 Report Share Posted May 20, 2023 Maybe more money for lures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanD Posted May 20, 2023 Report Share Posted May 20, 2023 The biggest thing with ethanol fuel is that it loves absorbing moisture, which we all know. My Honda 40hp had three carbs on it. If that motor sat for anymore then 2 weeks it was a complete dink to start. The fuel in the carbs (less then an ounce per-carb) are open to the atmosphere (all carbs need atmospheric pressure to function) and the ethanol fuel would go stale that fast. If I drained the carbs after using the motor for a day of fishing. The next time I would go out, I'd use the primer bulb to refill the carbs and that motor would start right up. I did also use Seafoam in every tank of fuel. The fuel in my sealed tank would stay good because I made sure that the fuel tank cap was actually working and sealing the tank when there was no draw from the motor. In other words a bit of prevention and a regiment of maintenance is all you need to deal with ethanol fuel. A lot of onboard fuel tanks have a fuel tank vent that is open; we've all seen it at the gas stations, where gas would spill out the vent when the fuel tank was full. That fuel in the tank is exposed to the atmosphere, depending on how humid it is that fuel can go stale if not used right away. We don't see this problem of stale fuel in the automotive industry. Emissions standards (no hydrocarbons are allowed into the atmosphere) require the fuel delivery systems to be completely sealed. It is called the evaporative emission control system (EVAP). This system works only with fuel injected motors. They don't need air pressure to atomize the fuel and can have sealed systems. At the end of this long post all I can advise is keep the fuel, you're using away from the air as much as possible... Just a side note and a bit of humor. My neighbor next door to me at the trailer park, buys a 2 gallon can of gas every spring. It's nicely sealed not to spill in his car. He opens the can, puts the pour spot on and fills his lawnmower; but leaves the gas can open for the rest of the season. A few weeks later he doesn't understand why the mower is hard to start and if it did start, it ran like a bag of crap. I'd go over drain the fuel tank and carb and then put gas in from my sealed can. Two or three pulls and it starts and runs like new. He doesn't understand why his fuel is bad. "I'll never buy gas from that place again" NO buddy seal you gas can!!! Dan... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted May 21, 2023 Report Share Posted May 21, 2023 Be careful going to lower grades "just because everything now has ethanol". Shell's regular is the worst for ethanol percentage, or at least it was, as to get the 10% average mandated previously across their sales (and having none in their premium) the regular can and will have over 20% ethanol in it. Damn near destroyed my Kubota riding mower running it after it softened the float needle seat so much it buggered it up and filled the entire engine with fuel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captpierre Posted May 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2023 9 hours ago, irishfield said: Be careful going to lower grades "just because everything now has ethanol". Shell's regular is the worst for ethanol percentage, or at least it was, as to get the 10% average mandated previously across their sales (and having none in their premium) the regular can and will have over 20% ethanol in it. Damn near destroyed my Kubota riding mower running it after it softened the float needle seat so much it buggered it up and filled the entire engine with fuel. Shell pumps say up to 10% ethanol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted May 21, 2023 Report Share Posted May 21, 2023 It is my understanding that they did not raise it to 20% and left it at 10% for now but all blends have 10% now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Posted May 21, 2023 Report Share Posted May 21, 2023 2 hours ago, captpierre said: Shell pumps say up to 10% ethanol. Well you could google the marina's in your area of interest and call them to find out for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRISONER Posted May 22, 2023 Report Share Posted May 22, 2023 (edited) On 5/19/2023 at 8:52 AM, akaShag said: OK guys, I used up all my testosterone making babies, growing hair all over my body, and learning how to hunt, fish, and shoot. I did not have any left over for learning how to fix stuff. Like, I might be able to check the oil in my outboard, but right now I don't think I have ever removed the cover............. SO>>>>>what can a non-technical boat owner do to protect their outboard from the ravages of ethanol? I did have a fuel/water separator in my big water boat, for the stern drive motor. Should I have one installed on this one? The motor is a fairly new (2020) Yamaha 40 hp 4-stroke with very low hours. And is there an additive I should be using, all the time, to every tank of Shell High Test? Advice would be appreciated. Doug If you are running gas through it regularly you won’t have much of an issue, it’s when the fuel sits that it starts collecting water and corroding stuff. Four strokes are nowhere near as bad as two’s but if you are letting the motor sit for over a month I’m going to suggest putting stabilizer in all of the gas you use. It’s effectively all you can do now that they’ve gotten rid of ethanol free gas i personally just run ethanol free as much as humanly possible, so sometimes in the middle of summer when I’m doing a lot of hours in the boat it’s not as much of a worry, but I’m sure to load up with marine ethanol free gas at curve lake every time I’m in the area. At the end of the year I try to ensure my last tank of gas is totally ethanol free and stabilized Edited May 22, 2023 by AKRISONER 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRISONER Posted May 22, 2023 Report Share Posted May 22, 2023 On 5/20/2023 at 5:36 PM, DanD said: The biggest thing with ethanol fuel is that it loves absorbing moisture, which we all know. My Honda 40hp had three carbs on it. If that motor sat for anymore then 2 weeks it was a complete dink to start. The fuel in the carbs (less then an ounce per-carb) are open to the atmosphere (all carbs need atmospheric pressure to function) and the ethanol fuel would go stale that fast. If I drained the carbs after using the motor for a day of fishing. The next time I would go out, I'd use the primer bulb to refill the carbs and that motor would start right up. I did also use Seafoam in every tank of fuel. The fuel in my sealed tank would stay good because I made sure that the fuel tank cap was actually working and sealing the tank when there was no draw from the motor. In other words a bit of prevention and a regiment of maintenance is all you need to deal with ethanol fuel. A lot of onboard fuel tanks have a fuel tank vent that is open; we've all seen it at the gas stations, where gas would spill out the vent when the fuel tank was full. That fuel in the tank is exposed to the atmosphere, depending on how humid it is that fuel can go stale if not used right away. We don't see this problem of stale fuel in the automotive industry. Emissions standards (no hydrocarbons are allowed into the atmosphere) require the fuel delivery systems to be completely sealed. It is called the evaporative emission control system (EVAP). This system works only with fuel injected motors. They don't need air pressure to atomize the fuel and can have sealed systems. At the end of this long post all I can advise is keep the fuel, you're using away from the air as much as possible... Just a side note and a bit of humor. My neighbor next door to me at the trailer park, buys a 2 gallon can of gas every spring. It's nicely sealed not to spill in his car. He opens the can, puts the pour spot on and fills his lawnmower; but leaves the gas can open for the rest of the season. A few weeks later he doesn't understand why the mower is hard to start and if it did start, it ran like a bag of crap. I'd go over drain the fuel tank and carb and then put gas in from my sealed can. Two or three pulls and it starts and runs like new. He doesn't understand why his fuel is bad. "I'll never buy gas from that place again" NO buddy seal you gas can!!! Dan... A very specific question for myself, so sorry to the OP for the hijack…but would my high pressure direct injection two stroke be sealed? Don’t know how much you know about the Yamaha HPDI engines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted May 22, 2023 Report Share Posted May 22, 2023 (edited) On 5/21/2023 at 8:43 AM, captpierre said: Shell pumps say up to 10% ethanol. I don't care what it says on their pump. Prior to this new mandate that everything has to have renewable fuel in it I bought regular at Shell for misc items in the yard while I was also getting premium for my old cars. That regular damn near destroyed my 3 year old Kubota mower. As you can see further up in this thread I know full well how to test for Ethanol, the regular I got had about 21% in it ! Edited May 22, 2023 by irishfield 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiel Posted May 22, 2023 Report Share Posted May 22, 2023 2 hours ago, irishfield said: I don't care what it says on their pump. Prior to this new mandate that everything has to have renewable fuel in it I bought regular at Shell for misc items in the yard while I was also getting premium for my old cars. That regular damn near destroyed my 3 year old Kubota mower. As you can see further up in this thread I know full well how to test for Ethanol, the regular I got had about 21% in it ! There is simply no logical reason to have ethanol in our fuel, full stop. You and I know that Wayne as do many other sentient beings. It's totally BS virtue signalling nonsense! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted May 22, 2023 Report Share Posted May 22, 2023 Edzacery Chris, it's a smoke and mirrors show that is doing more damage than good, but we can't go political here! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrowMan Posted May 22, 2023 Report Share Posted May 22, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Spiel said: There is simply no logical reason to have ethanol in our fuel, full stop. You and I know that Wayne as do many other sentient beings. It's totally Bull virtue signalling nonsense! It actually has more to do with the Agricultural Political Lobby Group than anything else. Farmers are paid top dollar for corn that otherwise there wouldn't be a market for...we can only eat so many Corn Flakes. Don't expect the other party to do anything differently...they all want the rural votes. In fact, in the US the Republicans are the biggest supporters of ethanol production...it's the "red states" like Iowa and Nebraska (corn country) that are the grass roots of the party. The "better for the environment" is just political spin. The process of turning corn into ethanol actually produces more carbon and greenhouse gasses than it saves. Farmers spend millions of $$$ supporting candidates that mandate the minimum ethanol levels. It's all about Old MacDonald had a .... Edited May 22, 2023 by CrowMan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrowMan Posted May 22, 2023 Report Share Posted May 22, 2023 BTW, as of last week the premium gas on the Tyendiega reserve now has 10% ethanol. I would imagine the gas at the other First Nation reserves (including Curve Lake) is the same...they all get it from the same refinery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captpierre Posted May 22, 2023 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2023 This is today in Bobcaygeon. Sign says ethanol free. Other sign spelt wrong 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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