Sinker Posted November 30, 2015 Report Posted November 30, 2015 the Crappie has killed that for ever! No they havent.
Sinker Posted November 30, 2015 Report Posted November 30, 2015 The weeds are choking out the spawning habitat. No, they're not at all.
Mister G Posted November 30, 2015 Report Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) Your last comment makes me say this. I am talking outside the box here. I have said way back, close rivers one year at a time. It,s makes it easy to inforce poachers then. You see an angler on a closed river or lake,theres no way to get out of a charge. Well Im sure they will try to think of one. We all wish we had the right answer. Like I said, thinking outside the box and JMO. Stupid idea when other species may be thriving on said waters.......and do you close it to pleasure boaters also to help enforce poachers or are just anglers punished by this idea. Edited November 30, 2015 by Mister G
Mister G Posted November 30, 2015 Report Posted November 30, 2015 A day late and a dollar short as usual, over fishing is not the issue....the Crappie and habitat are the problem Scugog was once a marvelous walleye fishery....the Crappie has killed that for ever! WRONG..........you are WAY off the mark........perch are a much more threat to any small weedy lake environment to it's walleye population then crappies will ever be because right after the walleyes fry hatch the perch move in to spawn and EAT ! ! ! The terrible crappies you fear are now only filling the nich the walleyes once had already vacated for several other reasons, none being from over populated crappies.
Mister G Posted November 30, 2015 Report Posted November 30, 2015 Many anglers wanted and asked for a hard water fishery in the Kawarthas. How do you do what is asked but not provide an avenue for the criminal element to take advantage? If you really think that ice anglers have caused the population of walleyes in the Kawarthan's to crash......then you need to get out of the box and think again.
Mister G Posted November 30, 2015 Report Posted November 30, 2015 Didn't they just stop netting them on Nip? Kind of hard to try and protect populations on one lake and not another? Mutual sacrifice? Stop using logic in today's PC world of thinking.
Mister G Posted November 30, 2015 Report Posted November 30, 2015 As Shane said recruitment is key, and recruitment on Scugog is next to nil based on MNR survey nettings, and creel census, your NOT likely to see a big difference unless recruitment appears, on the other hand and this might be the smoking gun, if the Crappie havnt reached there peak yet on Scugog, and started their decline which is natures way of finding balance, you could see this fishery bounce back, although not too the glory years it once had. That's if Black Crappie are directly responsible for walleye recruitment, which IMO is the case NOT ! ! !
chris.brock Posted November 30, 2015 Report Posted November 30, 2015 Stupid idea WRONG..........you are WAY off the mark...... NOT ! ! ! Whoa, everything ok there? Please enlighten us with your solution.
manitoubass2 Posted November 30, 2015 Report Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) Whoa, everything ok there? Please enlighten us with your solution. NO! ??? Edited November 30, 2015 by manitoubass2
chris.brock Posted November 30, 2015 Report Posted November 30, 2015 3rd man in Ricky, that's 5 and a game misconduct
manitoubass2 Posted November 30, 2015 Report Posted November 30, 2015 3rd man in Ricky, that's 5 and a game misconduct Dont encourage me???
manitoubass2 Posted November 30, 2015 Report Posted November 30, 2015 Never fished these lakes but im curious as to what the issues are? Always sucks to see lakes suffering
big guy Posted November 30, 2015 Report Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) I think it's pretty naive to think that over-fishing isn't part of the problem, I think over-fishing is a problem everywhere in Southern and Central Ontario. As much as we like the Internet, it can be a terrible thing as well when it comes to fishing. People post their successes online, it spreads like wild fire on the Net. Head Lake west of Norland is a perfect example of this. What used to be a fairly quiet lake is a very busy one at times now and if even only 25% of the people are having success, how many more fish are being taken out of the lake compared to 15-20 years ago? Double, triple? Possession limits have changed in that time frame, slot limitations have been implemented, but have they kept pace with the increased traffic on the water. Not sure, but it wouldn't surprise me if the answer is a resounding no. And what about the people who don't obey the rules? They really tilt the scales the wrong way. The answer is not a simple one that's for sure. Edited November 30, 2015 by big guy
bigugli Posted November 30, 2015 Report Posted November 30, 2015 I think it's pretty naive to think that over-fishing isn't part of the problem, I think over-fishing is a problem everywhere in Southern and Central Ontario. As much as we like the Internet, it can be a terrible thing as well when it comes to fishing. People post their successes online, it spreads like wild fire on the Net. Head Lake west of Norland is a perfect example of this. What used to be a fairly quiet lake is a very busy one at times now and if even only 25% of the people are having success, how many more fish are being taken out of the lake compared to 15-20 years ago? Double, triple? Possession limits have changed in that time frame, slot limitations have been implemented, but have they kept pace with the increased traffic on the water. Not sure, but it wouldn't surprise me if the answer is a resounding no. And what about the people who don't obey the rules? They really tilt the scales the wrong way. The answer is not a simple one that's for sure. You've forgotten the impact that comes from a human population doubling, and the urban sprawl, in 30 years, in Southern Ontario. That is an impact you cannot fix.
big guy Posted November 30, 2015 Report Posted November 30, 2015 You've forgotten the impact that comes from a human population doubling, and the urban sprawl, in 30 years, in Southern Ontario. That is an impact you cannot fix. Well that's what I am sort of getting at, there are more fishermen than ever, with more access to information than ever before and lakes within easy access from the Golden Horseshoe are under tremendous pressure.
lookinforwalleye Posted November 30, 2015 Report Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) The MNR should hire Sinker and Mr.G...my opinions are just my opinions and are based on 30 of fishing the lake and I really dont care to get into a long winded discusion about it the facts are out there to read if one wants too. And I will also add... in my humble opinion the the introduction on non native species has done more harm and will continue to do more harm to the kawartha's than some guy in a 12 foot tinny will every do!! Edited November 30, 2015 by lookinforwalleye
Sinker Posted November 30, 2015 Report Posted November 30, 2015 Well, saying that crappies have ruined the walleye fishery forever is a bold statement. And scugog has always been weedy, no more now than ever, and the weeds are what keeps the scugog walleye happy. Shallow water with no weeds and those fish wouldn't make it in there. So, if you want to provide some facts about your statements, I'm all ears. I have an open mind. I've also lived here for 30 years, and seen it happen. Yes, invasive species have a role for sure. That said, invasives come to a new area, explode, have their impact, then return to a sustainable population. All the kawartha lakes have gone thru this change. It started in rice, and worked its way thru the system. Scugog was the last to get hit, and why its the only lake thats not on a rebound right now. When crappies came to rice, they exploded. In turn, the walleyes dropped off. A few years pass, the crappies are hard to get in any numbers, but the walleye fishing is fantastic. Next up was the tri-lakes.....same deal....crappies and zebras get in, crappies explode, walleyes decline. 3-4 yrs later, crappies have leveled off, and walleyes are coming back in good numbers with several year classes. Next was sturgeon.....wash, rinse, repeat....exact same deal. Sturgeon is now on the rebound. I'm no scientist, or biologist, but I live here, and have fished these lakes most of my life. I'm not saying anyone is wrong or right, just what I've seen from years of experience on the water where I LIVE. I still think the trent severn has a lot more to do with actual RECRUITMENT than any other environmental impact. If the water levels are played with when the fish spawn, that year class is done. No walleyes. Pretty straight forward I think, but I'm open to other ideas. S.
crappieperchhunter Posted November 30, 2015 Report Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) I started fishing the bog through the ice in the 80's. Back then if you where in an area holding walleye and you had half a clue you could get your limit pretty much every trip out. And all you had to fish was 30-40 minutes as the sun was going down in the evening. It was that good. 10 plus fish at dusk was pretty common. Some of my best fishing memories are from the evening walleye bites through the ice out from Goreski's. By my observations, 4 things have changed drastically since then. First thing was way more people started coming out. Within a 3-5 year span I would say winter fishing pressure doubled...at least. I blame this on 2 things. The internet and the invention of portable huts. Second thing crappie started to show up. I have read several things published about how crappie are a very heavy predator on walleye fry. Take from that what you will. But when word got out that the Bog was producing some awesome crappie catches that also increased the fishing pressure again .....a whole bunch. And many of these new arrivals targeting crappie where not really fishermen at all IMHO...just meat hunters...plain and simple. Third thing I noticed was weeds. Way way more weeds. Some areas I fished became unfishable. You could cut 8-10 holes before you found an open area where your bait could actually get to the bottom instead of being hung up in weeds. Fourth thing I noticed and this happened pretty much at the same time as the increased weed growth was a huge increase in dink perch. They became a big nuisance. I would suspect the huge number of perch has to have an impact on the walleye in terms of competition and predation. These are my observation's and I believe these things all combined are a big part of the problem. Others have talked about loss of spawning habitat and poor recruitment. Not being a biologist I can't form an opinion about these issues. But I have seen how much Trent Severn has messed up the spring water level fluctuations so I'm sure there is very good and justified reasons for concern. Through all this the walleye have suffered to the point that the decision was made to close the winter season. A decision I agree with and support. A decision that should have been made 20 years ago IMHO. Is it too little to late? I think so...but boy do I hope I'm wrong. Edited November 30, 2015 by crappieperchhunter
moxie Posted November 30, 2015 Report Posted November 30, 2015 All the possible factors outlined may be contributors but the obvious is the most likely suspect. One river and shoreline to spawn on. Allow extreme water level fluctuation and you limit the already limited spawning habitat in a what is basically a swamp. Lived in Durham region for the better part of 3 decades and although i havent put tonnes of time in on that lake, i have fished it. Efforts geared toward the lakes' overall health should be undertaken but any resources beyond that should not be used to bolster a species that shouldnt be there. Outside the box? Develop a strain of big, hearty Bass.
moxie Posted November 30, 2015 Report Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) Hey, if the shoe fits ] You would know. You were gracious enough to give them to me. Stay well Dutch. Edited November 30, 2015 by moxie
jimmer Posted November 30, 2015 Report Posted November 30, 2015 It sounds obvious to me that the kawarthas need to be protected and managed better. This discussion has been going on for years and we still see slow changes. I remember doing spawning site enhancement on Pigeon in the 90's and it is still facing some walleye population issues. Some say they are rebounding; I have not seen this personally. I can say that they do congregate in the winter and large schools could be slaughtered quickly. I run into this when pan fishing in the winter. The health of the lake means different things to different people. Some feel that all the weeds should be removed to make the lake healthier, others see the importance of weeds in a lake. Sounds like most on here want to see improvements and care about the future of the fishery, it's the ones that aren't on here that couldn't give a damn other than filling their limits. Then they move on to the next lake when their success dwindles. Yes, the internet has had an impact.
captpierre Posted November 30, 2015 Report Posted November 30, 2015 Anybody know which slot rules have worked out better for the eye populations. Rules on Balsam or those on the rest of the Kawarthas. I understand it is an experiment by the MNR.
fishermccann Posted November 30, 2015 Report Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) I am on Cameron Lake where the slot size is 35 to 50 cm. About 50% of Walleye that I catch are in that slot size , 30% would be below the slot size and 20% would be above the slot size. How it is working I could not tell you, but I do know that I have caught more big Walleye in the past couple of years than I did before. Edited November 30, 2015 by fishermccann
Dutch01 Posted November 30, 2015 Report Posted November 30, 2015 I have read that walleye in Balsam Lake mature later than in other Kawartha Lakes. Here's an excerpt from a thread on another board (source at bottom): "The surveys confirmed the suspected decline in walleye stocks and also established that female walleye on Balsam Lake mature much later than on other Kawartha Lakes. According to the data, female Balsam Lake walleye require 6-7 years to achieve a size sufficiently mature to spawn (36- 43 cm, or 14"-17"), compared to only 4-5 years on other lakes. At the same time, creel surveys on Balsam revealed that the majority of fish harvested from Balsam Lake were less than 6 years old. This information suggested that >75% of the walleye harvested from Balsam had likely never spawned. This implicated harvest as a major factor in walleye declines, over say recruitment or habitat factors. Protecting these slow growing fish from harvest once they reach sexual maturity provides them the opportunity to spawn 4-5 times and produce future generations of walleye, before they would again reach a harvestable size." source: http://www.lakesimcoeoutdoors.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14699 This is just what a guy says the mnr told him, and he doesn't provide a source, but it does sound plausible.
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