Who is going to pull the trigger?

[Dara]

So whats up now

Mr Trudeau is saying the actual reason for delaying the 25,000 is because of the Paris attacks and he thinks we are all scared and wants to make us feel good...hmmmm ok..your the leader

[manitoubass2]

m2b, where did your lodge thread go? (am I blind?)

 

Yes. You should get that looked at?

Edited November 26, 2015 by manitoubass2

[Big Cliff]

Turkey is in deep cacka.

 

Turns out theyve lied about this incident

I don't think so, NATO has sided with Turkey and it looks like Turkey has proof and have covered their butts.

 

Russia ( and the US) have been pushing the envelope with a lot of people for quite a while now, it's almost as if they are trying to push "someone" into starting something that they can "react" to so they can claim "they started it!"

[manitoubass2]

I don't think so, NATO has sided with Turkey and it looks like Turkey has proof and have covered their butts.

 

Russia ( and the US) have been pushing the envelope with a lot of people for quite a while now, it's almost as if they are trying to push "someone" into starting something that they can "react" to so they can claim "they started it!"

Watch the flight patterns(not sure how reliable they are?)

 

And listen to what turkey says, "warned 10 times and violated airapace for 17 seconds)

 

That means the russians plane, if you do the math, was travelling at 255kmp/h

 

Russia says it received no warning.

 

And previously turkey has said violation of airspace is not an reason for immediate downing of a plane/jet.

 

??????

[irishfield]

Hard to be warned with your radio off frequency.

[manitoubass2]

Hard to be warned with your radio off frequency.

Who said it was off?

 

And a typical warning without comminication is to fly beside said jet is it not?

[manitoubass2]

Do the math ishfield

 

In turkey airspace for 17 second at an altitude of 6000ft

 

Apperently shot within 1km of turkey, landed 4km into syria

 

Were they flying at stalling speeds?

 

Something doesnt add up

 

And how do you get 10 warnings in 17 seconds if that was the case?

[Dutch01]

Do the math ishfield

 

In turkey airspace for 17 second at an altitude of 6000ft

 

Apperently shot within 1km of turkey, landed 4km into syria

 

Were they flying at stalling speeds?

 

Something doesnt add up

 

And how do you get 10 warnings in 17 seconds if that was the case?

As far as I can tell, the entire media machine seems to be challenged by reading comprehension.

 

The pilots did not warn every 1.7 seconds for 17 seconds at the exact same time the Russians flew at stall speed. The transcript of just one warning takes almost 17 seconds to read.

 

Earlier reports indicate warnings took place over several minutes, starting on approach, prior to the planes entering Turkey.

 

One guy did the math wrong and now the entire internet is on a 17 second conspiracy theory. Its actually a good example of groupthink overriding common sense.

[Dara]

My take on it...unless you were there, you will never know the truth.

 

Putin isn't bombing Turkey so he is just kinda mad but is somewhat to blame and other people know it so he isn't doing anything crazy.

 

Turkey dodged a bullet but they better be a bit more carefull next time

[manitoubass2]

As far as I can tell, the entire media machine seems to be challenged by reading comprehension.

 

The pilots did not warn every 1.7 seconds for 17 seconds at the exact same time the Russians flew at stall speed. The transcript of just one warning takes almost 17 seconds to read.

 

Earlier reports indicate warnings took place over several minutes, starting on approach, prior to the planes entering Turkey.

 

One guy did the math wrong and now the entire internet is on a 17 second conspiracy theory. Its actually a good example of groupthink overriding common sense.

The media spin is on both sides, of course nato sides with turkey and russian pilot says they received zero warning lol

[SirCranksalot]

So whats up now

Mr Trudeau is saying the actual reason for delaying the 25,000 is because of the Paris attacks and he thinks we are all scared and wants to make us feel good...hmmmm ok..your the leader

 

The ability to make small course corrections based on the best advice available is, IMO, a good sign of democratic leadership---unlike the semi-dictatorial leadership we've had lately that ignored expert opinion of scientists, for e.g., and didn't need to be confused by any facts that a census might provide! Who needs facts when you got dogma and your own pig-headed opinion to guide you?

[Dutch01]

 

The ability to make small course corrections based on the best advice available is, IMO, a good sign of democratic leadership---unlike the semi-dictatorial leadership we've had lately that ignored expert opinion of scientists, for e.g., and didn't need to be confused by any facts that a census might provide! Who needs facts when you got dogma and your own pig-headed opinion to guide you?

Thumbs up!

[manitoubass2]

 

The ability to make small course corrections based on the best advice available is, IMO, a good sign of democratic leadership---unlike the semi-dictatorial leadership we've had lately that ignored expert opinion of scientists, for e.g., and didn't need to be confused by any facts that a census might provide! Who needs facts when you got dogma and your own pig-headed opinion to guide you?

???

[limeyangler]

 

The ability to make small course corrections based on the best advice available is, IMO, a good sign of democratic leadership---unlike the semi-dictatorial leadership we've had lately that ignored expert opinion of scientists, for e.g., and didn't need to be confused by any facts that a census might provide! Who needs facts when you got dogma and your own pig-headed opinion to guide you?

TOUCHE!

[manitoubass2]

[John Bacon]

 

The ability to make small course corrections based on the best advice available is, IMO, a good sign of democratic leadership---unlike the semi-dictatorial leadership we've had lately that ignored expert opinion of scientists, for e.g., and didn't need to be confused by any facts that a census might provide! Who needs facts when you got dogma and your own pig-headed opinion to guide you?

 

Agreed, but so is the ability to set realistic targets in the first place. He received plenty of advice about the unattainability of the 25,000 target during the election campaign. Perhaps he should have made some corrections then.

[irishfield]

A lot of lads here that need to go fishing. There's no "channel 16.. all stations.. all stations" in aviation. All I was pointing to about being "warned". A GREAT possibility that the Russian jet wasn't on frequency. Considering the size of these countries, I'd be three countries in at a mere 100 MPH before I realized where I was, can't imagine at Mach 1.5!

Edited November 27, 2015 by irishfield

[Dara]

 

Agreed, but so is the ability to set realistic targets in the first place. He received plenty of advice about the unattainability of the 25,000 target during the election campaign. Perhaps he should have made some corrections then.

 

 

Thats my point...unrealistic election promises.

We all voted for the least of 3 evils and he won with 39% of the prople picking him.

 

I understand that he is really new at this sort of thing, but that doesn't mean I'm going to give him a big hug for realizing he was wrong

 

He was also wrong about the price..it jumped from 100 million to 600 million..but he is trying really hard...and got to visit the queen

[Dutch01]

Thats my point...unrealistic election promises.

We all voted for the least of 3 evils and he won with 39% of the prople picking him.

To be fair, this is the same percentage who gave Harper a majority, so Trudeau's is no less valid. And they all make unrealistic promises. Nothing you've said so far could not also be applied to Harper.

 

I understand that he is really new at this sort of thing, but that doesn't mean I'm going to give him a big hug for realizing he was wrong

Nobody is asking you to give him a hug. Just a chance. He's barely a month on the job, it's a little early to try define him as a failure.

 

He was also wrong about the price..it jumped from 100 million to 600 million..but he is trying really hard...and got to visit the queen

This one bugs me but again, it's the normal operation in politics. Every party provincially or federally promises to do a lot for a little, and then does a little for a lot. I'm okay with taking Trudeau to task on this as long as you're not giving a free pass to the guys you like. Edited November 27, 2015 by Dutch01

[cram]

 

To be fair, this is the same percentage who gave Harper a majority, so Trudeau's is no less valid. And they all make unrealistic promises. Nothing you've said so far could not also be applied to Harper.

 

Nobody is asking you to give him a hug. Just a chance. He's barely a month on the job, it's a little early to try define him as a failure.

 

This one bugs me but again, it's the normal operation in politics. Every party provincially or federally promises to do a lot for a little, and then does a little for a lot. I'm okay with taking Trudeau to task on this as long as you're not giving a free pass to the guys you like.

 

Come on Dutch......half of the election was focused on whether Trudeau knew these costs or was just guessing at the #s. It's more than fair to criticize him for it.

 

Let's not forget that THIS is the guy who was emphatic about his #s (start watching at 7 mins) - http://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=708807

 

Edited to add -- he had his heart in the right place though. I'd rather have that than the alternative.

 

 

Edited November 27, 2015 by cram

[John Bacon]

 

To be fair, this is the same percentage who gave Harper a majority, so Trudeau's is no less valid. And they all make unrealistic promises. Nothing you've said so far could not also be applied to Harper.

 

Nobody is asking you to give him a hug. Just a chance. He's barely a month on the job, it's a little early to try define him as a failure.

 

This one bugs me but again, it's the normal operation in politics. Every party provincially or federally promises to do a lot for a little, and then does a little for a lot. I'm okay with taking Trudeau to task on this as long as you're not giving a free pass to the guys you like.

 

I agree that it is too early to define his whole term as a failure. But, on this particular issue, he messed up big. He promised way more than he could deliver for way less than it was going to cost.

 

The attacks in Paris give him a convenient excuse for missing the deadline. But the reality is that he was never going to achieve those targets, nor do it for the costs that he had estimated. He was either out of touch with reality or just plain lying when he made that promise.

 

 

[moxie]

Along with attending a summit in Paris with a delegation of 100 trough swines the Lieberals have announced to allocate another 2.6 Billion to developing countries. To other countries in order to develop energy infrastructure? For what? So they can put more people to work offshore, manufacturing more products we wont be making? This Kids' been in office just over a month and has already earmarked 4 Billion dollars to Non Canadians. Makes me feel so compassionate, inclusive, patriotic you have no idea. And I'm bashed for making it a left/right argument. After experiencing the poor excuse we called governance in Ontario for the last decade how could I not?

 

I'd like to thank once again the chuckleheaded Lieberal voter.

[Dutch01]

Along with attending a summit in Paris with a delegation of 100 trough swines the Lieberals have announced to allocate another 2.6 Billion to developing countries. To other countries in order to develop energy infrastructure? For what? So they can put more people to work offshore, manufacturing more products we wont be making? This Kids' been in office just over a month and has already earmarked 4 Billion dollars to Non Canadians. Makes me feel so compassionate, inclusive, patriotic you have no idea. And I'm bashed for making it a left/right argument. After experiencing the poor excuse we called governance in Ontario for the last decade how could I not?

 

I'd like to thank once again the chuckleheaded Lieberal voter.

Were you equally incensed when Harper padded the G8 bill by a couple hundred million so they could build gazebos and spend other bribe money in conservative won ridings? Did you come up with a cutsie name for them like you did with the Liberals? (I recommend contard). If not, you may be a hypocrite.

 

Harper was around long enough to know him from his track record. For me at least, Trudeau should get more than a cup of coffee in office before we judge.

 

Also, many posters here love to trot out how we need to "stand by our commitments to our friends" when it comes to sending Canadians into a war zone.

 

As a part of the OECD we made promises regarding international aid to our international partners, and Harper reneged on them. How come that's okay? Cause it was "your boy"?

 

I'm not sure why the con love for sending Canadians boys to war, but we have no money to increase the peace in the world? For shame.

 

EDIT: you should know that the 100 "swine" you refer to are the Premier's of the provinces, who happen to come from all parties.

 

The same Premiers had been asking to meet with Harper for years, and he had no time for them. Some of them have since remarked how nice it is to have a PM who listens, and is inclusive and respectful to the Premiers. But I guess that doesn't matter because to you they are just swine.

 

EDIT: before I get slammed for being as anti Harper as you are anti Trudeau, let me state for the record I voted for Harper every election except this one. He had me and he lost me. I'm also very much against the poor job Wynne is doing. I am certainly not a liberal shill.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Dutch01

[DRIFTER_016]

I will say I have never voted Red or Blue so I can sit back and bust on both parties!!!

 

Having said that, say what you will about Trudeau or Harper, the fact is it's not one person deciding the fate of the nation.

They are just figure heads for the party they belong to. Just a face/persona to represent the party.

The bulk of the decisions are made by a group of senior party members with backing of the general party members.

The figure head just regurgitates what his/her puppet masters tell him/her to.

[Dutch01]

I will say I have never voted Red or Blue so I can sit back and bust on both parties!!!

 

Having said that, say what you will about Trudeau or Harper, the fact is it's not one person deciding the fate of the nation.

They are just figure heads for the party they belong to. Just a face/persona to represent the party.

The bulk of the decisions are made by a group of senior party members with backing of the general party members.

The figure head just regurgitates what his/her puppet masters tell him/her to.

I would agree with you there DRIFTER, and add that I think the real behind the scenes puppet masters are the corporations and lobby groups that donate to the parties.