Penetang roof collapses

[irishfield]

I made mention back around New Years that the Barrie Building department spokeswoman would be eating her words "that nobody needed to bother shovelling a roof if you house was built in the previous 30 years due to building regulations meeting the worst snow loads in the past 100 years"!

 

The house in the pictures was built.... if memory is correct.. 19 years ago. The lady that owns it called a mutual girlfriend of Leah's on Tuesday afternoon asking her "what do animals sound like if they're in your attic". She asked because they had been hearing noises for about a week. Well in the middle of the night Tuesday / Wednesday AM it let go and luckily nobody was hurt. I just can't believe that none of the neighbours around them (in the same small subdivision with the same builder) haven't broke out the shovels on their roofs before they're in the same boat, especially with the sun out and temps going + today and tomorrow.

 

I can't imagine the loads on Penetang area roofs right now.. even with my own buildings (all steel roofs) the only roof that has cleared itself is the hangar with a 5/12 pitch. My shops 3/12 has not cleared itself even once, nor the rear house roofs since winter started.. and the house has a 12/12 pitch in steel tile that still holding snow and a main 5/12 about 3 feet deep of heavy packed! Imagine I'm going to be replacing a lot of roof screws when it does let go! I've even taken the time to access the attic and check all my rafter ties... all looks tight and thank god I overbuilt it.

[misfish]

Holly crap Wayne. Thats unreal. Lots of snow this year. Is it possible the roof wasnt built correct?

[HTHM]

Holly crap Wayne. Thats unreal. Lots of snow this year. Is it possible the roof wasnt built correct?

From the photograph it appears to be 2 x 8 rafters 24 on center, That is code. I think Gerrit would have a better handle on this than I.

[irishfield]

They'll figure it out Brian... if you look in the gable even it's rafter tied.. so imagine the main roof was as well and what they heard as "animals" over the last week as each one started to let go. The big thing is we usually get a roof clearing / melt or two each winter and with the 50+ inches we got just over the new years week alone on top of daily plowing of snow for 3 months now. The snow on roofs here is damn near equal to the weight of water by now it's so compacted.

[irishfield]

Based on the 4' wide window in the first picture the main rafters, under the big dormer, are on 16's !

Edited March 6, 2014 by irishfield

[NAW]

That's insane.

 

Thanks Wayne.. I'm going to be having nightmares now...

[tb4me]

Thats crazy..Looks like they will be moving out for a while..

[misfish]

Steel roofs are more common these days just for this thing not happening. Sure their loud when it,s a heavy down pour or hailing,but the snow slides right off.

[irishfield]

As noted Brian.. I have all steel roofs. Flat "farm style" on the shop and hangar and Steel Tile profiled on the house. While they usually self clean numerous times a season, this winter neither the house nor shop has dropped it's snow.. all stuck nicely to the screw heads!

 

They're living in a hotel right now tb4me... insurance told them they'll be out for probably 5 months. Seems long, but by the time the drywall etc is finished, I wouldn't doubt it.

Edited March 6, 2014 by irishfield

[tb4me]

 

 

They're living in a hotel right now tb4me... insurance told them they'll be out for probably 5 months. Seems long, but by the time the drywall etc is finished, I wouldn't doubt it.

Ya 3 months for insurance company to drag their respective heels and 2 months to rebuild..

[irishfield]

Actually amazed it's already safety fenced to the laneway... roof has been shovelled.. yard cleared back to make room to get a boom truck in the front yard and you can see the plastic tarp on the roof to try and keep further water damage to a minimum. Not bad for less than 36 hours later.

[tb4me]

Actually amazed it's already safety fenced to the laneway... roof has been shovelled.. yard cleared back to make room to get a boom truck in the front yard and you can see the plastic tarp on the roof to try and keep further water damage to a minimum. Not bad for less than 36 hours later.

Ya the remediation crews usually work quick..The reconstruction, that's another story..Hopefully it goes quick for them..

[Sinker]

That should be a trussed roof. The front gable should be hand cut 2x6 on 16" centers, built on top of the main trusses.

 

Ive built a lot of roofs, and one that size should be trussed for sure.

 

S.

[irishfield]

Lots of stick roofs up here.. mine included which was built from 2 x 12's x 26 feet long on 16" centers. Nothing wrong if properly rafter tied and properly attached to the top plate and ceiling joists. That said I think that it is a stick roof in the pictures for the main roof... but a neighbour of the owner told me the first report is the "staple plates" let go and if so that would = trusses.. but I'm pretty sure I watched them do stick roofs in the majority of the subdivision early 90's

Edited March 6, 2014 by irishfield

[Twocoda]

Based on the exposed gable end...im going to guess there was insufficient ridge support (i dont see any in the open gable) ..if the ridge support was in place every 4 feet this wouldnt have happened unless the bearing walls collapsed...Glad no one was hurt

[Sinker]

Actually, now that I think of it, I built a bunch of hand cut roofs up there many years ago.

 

No, not that one LOL

 

S.

[aplumma]

Crazy weather this year for sure. We have a combination of steel and tile roofing here and the steel roofing we actually attach snowbirds to the metal roof to keep it from falling off in sheets but rarely are the roofs snow covered for more than a week before melting off.

 

Art

[muskymatt]

Wow, you gotta wonder if the building inspection was done right and the web braces were installed correctly. That roof should have been good for well over 100lbs per square foot of load. Collapses are rare, especially with that pitch. I've seen multiple dormers act as a snow catch but to collapse is wild.

Glad no one was killed.

 

[chris.brock]

good nobody was hurt

 

on the Monck Rd, old 503 now 45, from Orrilia to Norland, I counted 6 buildings with the roof caved in, mostly old barns, crazy winter this year

[Gerritt]

Looking at the pics my guess is this is a engineered trussed roof system with stick framed dormers.... Funny the dormer is still standing...I would be going back to the builder/building dept, asking for the stamped prints of the roof plan. you will know what engineer signed off on the plans and who was to be supplying the trusses. In a lot of cases the truss manufacturer supplies their own engineer.

 

G.

[mcdougy]

Based on the exposed gable end...im going to guess there was insufficient ridge support (i dont see any in the open gable) ..if the ridge support was in place every 4 feet this wouldnt have happened unless the bearing walls collapsed...Glad no one was hurt

 

Huh?? I'm not picking up what your laying down?

[Twocoda]

If the roof is stick framed (which i think it is) it is supposed to have ridge support every 4 feet running from a load supporting wall/beam up vertically to the ridge..,,,where the dormer crashes into the main roof should also have support to a load bearing wall...whereas the ridge for the dormer has none and should have at least one support other than the main roof rafters and gable wall.. you can spread the load over the ceiling joists for the dormer but ideally there is a patrician wall under it ... as for the engineering ...i think i read that the house was 18 years old...its only within the last ten years that a house print had to have a BIN stamp on it for residential ...so it most likely was only inspected by the building inspector of the time...but the town will have a copy of the original prints that the building permit was issued under...Im guessing they put collar ties but no vertical supports for the ridge....

 

IF it was a truss roof the sheeting would have to be continuous for the length of the roof on the rafters where the dormer sits...i cant see any sheeting or ribbon ties at the back of the exposed dormer...thats why im guessing its a stick frame

Edited March 8, 2014 by Twocoda

[mcdougy]

If the roof is stick framed (which i think it is) it is supposed to have ridge support every 4 feet running from a load supporting wall/beam up vertically to the ridge..,,,where the dormer crashes into the main roof should also have support to a load bearing wall...whereas the ridge for the dormer has none and should have at least one support other than the main roof rafters and gable wall.. you can spread the load over the ceiling joists for the dormer but ideally there is a patrician wall under it ... as for the engineering ...i think i read that the house was 18 years old...its only within the last ten years that a house print had to have a BIN stamp on it for residential ...so it most likely was only inspected by the building inspector of the time...but the town will have a copy of the original prints that the building permit was issued under...Im guessing they put collar ties but no vertical supports for the ridge....

 

IF it was a truss roof the sheeting would have to be continuous for the length of the roof on the rafters where the dormer sits...i cant see any sheeting or ribbon ties at the back of the exposed dormer...thats why im guessing its a stick frame

 

Um.. I think i understand what you are explaining, i think I may have a different interpretation though. In a standard stick frame..which would be properly sized roof rafters for the appropiate span, the only thing the ridge board is doing is giving you a nailing surface to "join" the two opposing rafters, there would be no need for supports under the ridge. This scenario would require the use of collar ties in the bottom 1/3 of rafter length. Do you agree? This would represent the dormer area.

As far as the Main roof, I would assume its too wide for "standard" stick frame. They may have gone to a ridge beam, roof joist application if possible. In that application, the ridge beam size determines the span it could carry? correct? This is most common in a cathedral ceing room." every 4' of ridge support " is the part I'm not understanding in your comment. I'm not disagreeing in that that would be extremely optimal , but in many situations impossible. especially in a cathedral room situation. And only if there is a interior wall directly under the ridge, in this house, on both floors and basement.

I'm not trying to argue. I am only wondering what you are refering to? What would you consider the ridge to be in this house?1-2x10 or 12 or a beam of say 4 -2x12's? I like both learning and sharing knowledge.

Im sure at the end of the day we both would agree. This is a very terrible situation for both homeowner and all contractors. Something was obviously done wrong and missed "by alot of eyes " hopefully. Properly specked trusses are the way to go in my opinion, although I have refused many "stamped" packages due to undersized members requiring a truckload of lumber in the trusses to make them strong enough. Bottom line shopping by house builders has created a horrible acceptaance of this in the truss industry. It needs to be reformed IMO. Inspectors have their own knowledge, but are guilty sometimes of not doing a thorough inspection of roof packages.

I HATE SEEING STUFF LIKE THIS, PEOPLE CAN DIE.

[mcdougy]

Also roof truss packages have needed a engineer stamp on them long before the BCIN came into effect. BCIN was a "insurance" that all packages co-existed properly and gave the muncipality or city one point of contact. along with someone with insurance to help in the situation of a lawsuit. Again I'm sure you know all of this just clarifying for others.

 

Another thing has to be considered, the home is approx 19 yrs old. It may have seen some renovations. The removal of walls is typical. When some "cowboy renovator" has limited knowledge but a good price, things like this collapse can and do happen. You get what you pay for may imply in this situation. Just because it is a truss, doesn't mean you can rip any wall out that's for sure. Many renovations occur with no permit.

Edited March 8, 2014 by mcdougy

[motv8tr]

It's sad to see that happen, I've cleaned my roof off three times this year for fear of that happening, hope this winter ends soon

Maureen