New 4Runner. Stopping problems on ice.

[captpierre]

Hi Guys. Some advice please.

 

Had a similar problem with my rear wheel drive Safari van.

 

Trying to stop at the end of an icey driveway, the 4Runner wouldn't stop even with antilock working.

 

I popped it into neutral and that seemed to help.

 

Is this a rear wheel drive problem? The rear wheels still push, at idle, in "drive" when brakes are applied?

 

Would putting into 4WD help?

 

thanks, peter

[Big Cliff]

You do have good winter tires I'll assume not all season.

 

Most of my life I didn't bother with winter tires, a good set of all season and a good driver was all I figured I needed. About 5 years ago Sue was having trouble getting out of our driveway, it has quite a slope to it so I went and got her a good set of winter tires (and yes there is a big difference between a tire desigined for snow vs ice. Man that car of hers would go places that 4wds were having trouble especially on ice.

 

The following week I went and got myself a good set of winter tires and wouldn't even consider not having them anymore.

 

Now as for your specific question; I'm not the best person to tell you if neutral could/ should help but I do remember having a car that if you dropped it into neutral would brake better on ice (even shifted it into reverse once by accident, don't do it!!!)

 

4WD, well if you have it you might as well use it but as far as I know 4 wheels slide almost as easily as 2. It will be interesting to hear what the pros have to say.

[Richie Razor]

I really like the newer 4runners, they look tough and are probably the most bullit proof out there. As for stopping on ice, winter tires will cut that distance in 1/2. I have a newer honda pilot and it slides when the all seasons are on, but when the x-ice's go on, there's nothing I can't drive through in the winter!

[Sinker]

I"ll third the snow tires. I swear by them, even with a 4wd vehicle. Makes a world of difference. I also have the X-ice by michelin, and its night and day, even compared to mud/snow tires, or AT's.

 

I'm assuming your sliding out of your driveway onto the road?? Put some sand down....or salt....but sand is better.

 

 

S.

[kickingfrog]

Traction/breaking problem not a drive problem and no AWD or 4x4 won't help you to stop.

 

Sand or ashes on the ice and some winter tires.

[davey buoy]

Hi Guys. Some advice please.

 

Had a similar problem with my rear wheel drive Safari van.

 

Trying to stop at the end of an icey driveway, the 4Runner wouldn't stop even with antilock working.

 

I popped it into neutral and that seemed to help.

 

Is this a rear wheel drive problem? The rear wheels still push, at idle, in "drive" when brakes are applied?

 

Would putting into 4WD help?

 

thanks, peter

Ice is ice ,doesn't matter what tire you have IMO,but some tires are better.Is your idle a little high?your four wheels should stop when the brakes are on.When my truck is cold it likes to keep going because of the idle speed.I just push down a bit higher and all is well.This might last for up to 10 mins.

[kickingfrog]

Tires can make all the difference.

[Sinker]

Tires make ALL the difference!! Its the only part of your vehicle touching the road!

 

S.

[Fisherman]

It's not a RWD problem, after doing a number of DDC lessons, if the brakes are not stopping you on ice, "you shift into neutral", it removes the small bit of power even when at idle. Try it you'll be amazed. In addition, the proper seasonal tires will increase your traction or stopping ability.

[GBW]

I have to agree with 'Fisherman' on this one. I had a 4 Runner (mind you it was a 1994 and this was over 10 years ago when I had it) but I would always pop it into neutral when slowing down; even in the summer I did that. It did help but I think I did it more because I missed driving a 5-speed.

[aplumma]

My concern to popping it into neutral is you lose the capacity to get going again in an emergency. Case in point I was at a stoplight on a motorcycle with a friend who usually puts it into neutral so he don't have to hold the clutch. I reved the bike to see if he wanted to race so he kicked it back into gear. Just out of the corner of my eye I saw the car coming up was not going to stop we both gassed it to the side of the car in front of us and when the car did stop he was just short of the car that was in front of us.

 

 

 

Art

[Fisherman]

No Art, this is a completley different scenario taught during (DDC) Defensive driving courses. You're trying to stop of a rain laden, or hard pack snow or icy surface, you slam it into neutral or clutch it. Try it sometime if you can find a healthy patch of ice down there. Hard to explain, but it works.

[kickingfrog]

Gear down.

[Raf]

throwing it into neutral doesnt make any sense to me. not saying it doesn't work or it isn't right but my thinking is unless you have an issue with your rear brakes (on a rwd) any modern brakes can easily over-power what little power the engine is sending to the wheels at idle in gear.

 

i think it's a tire issue and the forces put on them are simply exceeding the very limited grip circle available to them in those conditions (ice). that's what i learned in my years of offensive driving (auto-cross).

Edited December 6, 2013 by Raf

[irishfield]

The reason throwing it into neutral helped him slow down.. is because the front wheels locked at the touch of the brake and the ABS rotation sensors shut down any braking to the front wheels leaving him with only rears if they were still turning. Pressing some more brake might have worked vs neutral.

 

Any with a GMC.. when both front sensors fail... you'd better be ready to throw it in REVERSE to stop ! (cause the brake pedal will go through the floor!)

[aplumma]

No Art, this is a completley different scenario taught during (DDC) Defensive driving courses. You're trying to stop of a rain laden, or hard pack snow or icy surface, you slam it into neutral or clutch it. Try it sometime if you can find a healthy patch of ice down there. Hard to explain, but it works.

I understand the physics of it and you all have a much better idea on ice driving than I do for sure. My thoughts are to lose your ability to drive out of a slide is counter productive to being able to avoid an accident. While we do not get the same amount of snow and ice down here we actually have poor road clearing capacity the snow and ice comes and goes usually in a week so our amount of snow equiptment is small . The action of a skid or sliding removes your ability to control the direction you are pointing. With a sliding motion if you have traction then you may counter steer to drive around an issue rather than sliding into the issue. I am sure there is a time and place for both methods so far I have not found the slight benefit of neutral to be more to my advantage than being able to drive out of a situation.

 

Our racing mantra was gas gas GAS when in trouble. lol

 

 

 

Art

[Fisherman]

Something akin to giver...power out of the slide..

[GBW]

Art, the whole gas, gas GAS part is VERY true when in an actual driving situation. What Peter is asking (and how I read it) is why is he's not stopping on the surface when pulling off the driveway. Yes the 4Runner could be running at a higher RPM as it warms up and so forth but to ease the forward momentum by going to neutral while braking should help. I know what worked for me with my old 4Runner so I shared my findings. Not a shot at you by any means Art. It's just my personal findings. Me; I would hammer the gas and go around anything in the way now, BUT because of that I no longer drive...

Edited December 6, 2013 by GBW

[GBW]

Also, you can go from Drive to Neutral without having to pull the lever or push the button on the shifter of the tranny to go from one to the other. While going to all other gears you need to pull in and or press the button (depending on the shifter in the car/truck). You can basically slap it in and out of gear at any time. Just like pushing the clutch in on a 5-spd. I did it out of pure boredom while driving an Auto VS 5-SPD but I found it very useful. If I needed to power out of any situation all I needed to do was a quick motion to slide it back into gear and I would be on my way again. Thus like changing gears in a 5-spd, 4th to 3rd... Again, just my findings with a 4Runner.

[aplumma]

No don't get me wrong I am sure there is a time and place for shifting into neutral in a driveway is a perfect example. I wanted to point out that it would be a bad way to stop while you are driving with other vehicles on the road like coasting to a stop light . Snow and ice have little effect on me while I drive down here in the South because it is usually less than a foot and goes away in a week. I also drive a full size loaded Ford F150 or a loaded Sprinter (think heavy) vehicles. They both have all of the tricky auto brake and anti skid features so as long as I don't encounter any idiots on the road I am good.

 

 

Art

[OhioFisherman]

I always liked studded snow tires for winter driving, because of icy conditions.

[BillM]

Studded tires are great, if you can actually run them legally, lol.

[kickingfrog]

I was visiting in New Brunswick one winter and it took me a couple of cars to figure out what the sound was as they were going by. Never been in a car with them.

[davey buoy]

When I was a wee lad,I use to help my grandfather screw them in the fall and take them out at the end of the winter.The studs were for a 66 VW notchback.Used the same tires all year.

[bass_man]

I've had 4 Jimmy's, all did the same thing in 2wd but worked well in 4wd on ice. Just switch it on for in and out of the driveway.

 

Jim