Another mass murder

[manitoubass2]

People should always have the right to bear arms. Looks what happens in countries that do not allow people to bear arms. People need to be able to protect themselves and feed themselves. A population without guns quickly turns a government into a tyranny

[ch312]

In other words you believe what the CBC tells you. yep, lets ban 'assault rifles' that actually aren't because they account for a tiny fraction of overall gun murders, not even to mention total murders, fewer than things like hammers, or fists, or feet. But they are scary, and we know what scary looking things do to people without critical thinking skills. Hand guns will surely never be banned, they are simply accepted as a personal defence tool, rightly or wrongly, but complaints about how the terrible assault rifles that arent need to be banned are simply wrong, the stattiscs don't lie.

 

It's funny that those who know nothing about firearms try to say what should be banned, yet the misinformed can't distinguish the difference between a semi auto firearm (which is the exact same as semi auto rifles used for hunting) and a fully automatic firearm (true assault rifle).

 

But, but, but that rifle is black and looks scary so it MUST be an assault rifle and MUST be banned

[Tim Mills]

The fear mongering is definitely a factor. A year ago we were all saying how sad and disturbing the Conn school shooting was.

If there was ever an event that should have brought the Dems and Reps together to bring about common sense gun legislation that was it.

In the months that followed the Conn shooting gun sales went through the roof. Americans were fearfull that gun restrictions were coming and that if they didn't buy certain guns now they would not be able to in the future. I was born in the states and enjoying visiting but stories like this remind me that I'm lucky to live in Canada.

[Richie Razor]

 

 

Sorry, but it's people like you who rely on the media for your "facts" and you are the one who is sadly misinformed. This doesn't happen in Canada because of the firearms we can or cannot access?

 

The shotgun he used to kill is 100 % accessible by anyone in Canada with a firearms license.

The AR-15 he took from the murdered guard is 100 % accessible by anyone in Canada who chooses to write the restricted firearms exam.

 

 

No, this is NOT totally different than hunting firearms we're permitted to use here. Know why? Because the AR-15 he used is NO DIFFERENT than ANY semi automatic firearm that Canadians use for hunting, including semi auto's many of our grandfathers used. I'm not sure if you're aware of this or not, but handguns are easily accessible here in Canada too.

 

So your facts are different than mine? Where do you get your facts from, personal experience?

[ch312]

To say guns arent a major part of the problem is completely dilusional. If they werent the problem, then the knifes, bombs etc. should each be responsible for around the same number of deaths each year. All of the others combined dont even come close to gun murders, so open your eyes.

Yes, people kill people ( mostly with guns if you look at facts)

 

Handguns do indeed kill more people, but knives, clubs, fists, hammers, etc kill far more in the US each year than shotguns or rifles.

 

 

 

Alcohol and drunk driving kills more people in the US than all firearms combined. How about we ban alcohol?

[ch312]

So your facts are different than mine? Where do you get your facts from, personal experience?

 

It's a fact that:

 

- You and others who rely on the media label certain firearms "assault rifles" simply because of how they look.

- It's just as easy to buy a firearm here in Canada as it is in the US.

- Stricter firearms laws do nothing to prevent firearms related crimes, they punish law abiding citizens.

- Alcohol, knives, fists, and hammers kill far more than scary "assault rifles".

- The HUGE majority of firearms related crimes in the US are committed by people who are NOT legally permitted to own a firearm

 

 

Fear mongering and knee jerk reactions are the direct result of media Bull.

[Bearss]

Dont forget cigarettes, those things are deadly!

[mike rousseau]

Dont forget cigarettes, those things are deadly!

Lmao...

 

Welcome to the board... Lol

 

There's probably some smokers in this debate....

 

YOU MURDERERS!!!!!!!!

[ch312]

Report: Navy Yard Shooter Stole Firearms Used in Rampage

Sep 17, 2013
Washington D.C.

According to the FBI, Alexis did not use an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle but instead used a shotgun and two handguns. The shotgun was purchased legally in Virginia and then brought illegally into Washington D.C. It is still believed Alexis stole the handguns off of police officers at the scene.

According to NBC Washington, Aaron Alexis, the man who carried out a deadly rampage at Washington D.C.'s Navy Yard yesterday, purchased a shotgun legally and passed a background check through the FBI NICS system. The other firearms Alexis used in the shooting were two 9mm semi-automatic handguns and were stolen after he made it onto the base.

hxxp://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2013/09/17/report-navy-yard-shooter-stole-firearms-used-in-rampage-n1702267

 

 

So, it appears that it wasn't even a scary assault rifle like the media assumed it was when multiple false reports were broadcast yesterday. He bought the firearm legally after passing an FBI background check (meaning clean record, FBI deemed him safe to own a firearm) and proceeded to take the firearm into an area where firearms are prohibited by civilians before stealing handguns from officers.

 

If this isn't enough proof that stricter laws will do nothing to prevent such tragedies then I dunno what is.

[jedimaster]

Clearly the answer here is to make it illegal for someone to steal a police officers gun and use it to kill people.

[Headhunter]

Despair leads to desperate people. My own personal feelings regarding the gun epidemic in the U.S. aside, I believe that if the various levels of governments had any concern for their citizens well being, beyond their financial contributions, we just might see less of these kinds of incidents.

When poverty and a sense of despair take over anyone, some will become disillusioned and some will move to violence.

I truly think our friends to the south have bigger issues to deal with then gun control. Gun violence is only a symptom of many other ills.

HH

 

PS… I am not slamming the U.S. and I am not saying that we in Canada are better… just my humble opinion…

[Richie Razor]

It's a fact that:

 

- You and others who rely on the media label certain firearms "assault rifles" simply because of how they look.

- It's just as easy to buy a firearm here in Canada as it is in the US.

- Stricter firearms laws do nothing to prevent firearms related crimes, they punish law abiding citizens.

- Alcohol, knives, fists, and hammers kill far more than scary "assault rifles".

- The HUGE majority of firearms related crimes in the US are committed by people who are NOT legally permitted to own a firearm

 

 

Fear mongering and knee jerk reactions are the direct result of media Bull.

 

You are so far off base it's laughable. Did you forget in your reasearch to cite the recent Sandy Hook school murders, where 20 school children were killed???

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/nyregion/shooting-reported-at-connecticut-elementary-school.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

Since it's from a media source you choose not to believe it? Whats your insightful explanation about this incident?

 

Whatever your defence is it doesn't take awaythe fact that innocent Amercians were killed by the hands of Amercians with guns.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Chotchkies House

[mike rousseau]

If one person stabs another over a debate about guns....

 

Is the gun violence.... Hmmm

[aplumma]

The best part of this thread is it will never change anyones mind on their views on gun control. Both sides can give 10 reasons on why it is right/wrong and neither side will give an inch of ground. The fact is what your government allows is what it will be as far as gun ownership. The gun owners (legal) do not see a flaw in the system because it works for them. Once you take it into the illegally owned guns there are already laws being broken and new laws will not prevent those intent on having illegal weapons in their possession from doing so. If we had 100 Canadians with guns in there house and 100 US Citizens with guns in their house you would find the same # on both sides pulled the trigger to defend their lives and family. If we have 100 Canadians armed with baseball bats and 100 US Citizens armed with guns you would find the same # of people used their weapon to protect their lives and families. Guns are not evil they do not have any choice in the act of using them for their intended function. You can shoot targets from now till doomsday with it legally as well as save your life or family legally and that is a mind set you either have or not both are correct in each ones views. To ask how many guns does one need is the same question you can ask of someone who has more than one fishing rod/reel. The answer is the same, what is the tools job to be done. I have 34 fishing rods that have different jobs or requirements and like each one of them for what they do. I will have 35 rods if I find a niche that it will fill and it makes me happy. I feel the same way about guns some of my guns may never get fired but I see them as a work of art or a piece of history that can't be replaced. Some of them are built for a specific purpose one pistol is for target shooting it is sooooo smooth and balanced I can shoot 500 rounds and walk away happy and satisfied. One pistol shoots a hunk of lead so big it turns a watermelon into airborn soup or lifts a 1 x 1 chunk of sod up into the air. You ask why do I have it ? It makes me smile and it is legal just like the custom rod and reel you treasure. Arguing gun control with a nation that has different laws and different mindsets will never provide us with a winning solution or even a change of thoughts on the subject.

 

Please keep this thread civil and respectful of others views as it progresses.

Thank you

 

 

Art

[manitoubass2]

I totally agree with HH

[misfish]

Just a question Chotchkies House

 

I can under stand your feelings on killing of humans but,what are your feeling of law abidding people with guns that sport shoot and harvest food for their family?

 

 

Are you 100% against guns all together?

 

 

 

An honest question I feel being asked here.

 

 

[bigugli]

Every time this issue comes up, it has the same polarization of evil/ not evil. However, to play devil's advocate..

 

Lets agree that guns are evil because of the harm they can cause. Ban them. Ban sharp knives. They can kill, therefore they are evil.

 

Logically, we must also ban alcohol, and cigarettes, as they also kill.

 

Cars kill too, perhaps we should also ban them? We could go on and on with this line of simplistic argument. Regardless of the circumstance, these are merely objects. Incapable of doing any harm of their own accord. I The problem is the people using and abusing the objects. Good and evil reside in people, not objects.

[lew]

If we had 100 Canadians with guns in there house and 100 US Citizens with guns in their house you would find the same # on both sides pulled the trigger to defend their lives and family.

 

Your right Art, most of us would do whatever we could to defend our families.

 

Things is though, there's a HUGE difference between Canadians and Americans in the way we think about guns....at least handguns. For you fellas it's a very large part of your lives and something you all feel very strongly about, whereas Canadians don't think of handguns the same way. In all my years I've never owned a handgun or ever even thought of wanting one, infact I've never known anybody who has one either.

 

I read a few of the American websites and am actually amazed at the number of guys that carry guns. One boating website has threads where they talk about what guns they carry when they go fishing and where do they mount the holsters.

 

If I EVER felt I needed to take a gun fishing for protection I'd definetely take up another sport.

 

Another site is about pick-up trucks and there they talk about where everyone mounts their guns inside the cab of the truck. They've got them in the center consoles, under the seat, or even mounted to the steering column, where they say it's easiest to reach in a hurry when you need it. My gawd, I'd be afraid to travel in places where I need fast access to my gun.

 

That's the way Americans live...at least some of them...and if that's the way you guys want it, so be it, but it sure isn't the way most Canadians think...at least none that I've ever known.

 

I lived in Toronto for 62 years and never once was I ever threatened by anyone, let alone threatened with a gun. Toronto has a population of roughly 2 1/2 million people, yet there's only around 60 murders a year and most of those are gang and drug related. Take any American city with 2 1/2 million people and the murder rate is probably at least 100 times more.

 

You folks have your guns and your "right to bear arms" thing, but you also have mass shootings on a regular basis, and it doesn't seem to matter whether it's military bases, schools, movie theaters, shopping centers or anything else.

 

Guys grab guns, whether they be pistols, shotguns, automatics or whatever and walk into a crowd and just start killing as many people as they can.

 

I was watching the Today Show this morning and they even talked about classes people can take to learn what to do when your caught in the cross fire of a mass murderer with guns.

 

Canada on the other hand doesn't have everyone wanting to carry a gun everywhere , and we also don't have all the mass murders, infact it's very rare to hear about them up here and I don't even know the last time an indiscriminate mass murder happened in this country.

 

I don't have the answers and probably nobody else does either, but it just seems odd that the country with so many guys talking about their right to bear arms has all the devastation, while we don't think about guns the same way and we don't have the trouble.

 

I just hope someone can figure out a way for you guys to stop the insane murder of so many innocent people on such a regular basis.

Edited September 17, 2013 by lew

[lookinforwalleye]

 

The american economy is not based upon the manufacture of guns, you don't seriously believe that do you?

 

If you think the American economy is not based on weapons of all kinds you better think again...the usa is the largest exporter of weapons in the world an one of the largest importers in the world.

When I talk about weapons I mean all types from the handgun to the aircraft carrier...take this away from the american economy yes I say it would colapse.

 

Americans and gun/weaponn control= oil and and water!!!!

 

I am done on this subject. Peace!!!!

[davey buoy]

Just my 2 cents but as being a Industrial Millwright like myself,working on equipment as I do.A couple times I have been asked for the right price you can have a hand gun.The black market is there,and they don't know me from adam.I decline of course.Not to hard to find I'm sure if your looking for it . There the guns I would be most aware of.And the people who choose that route.No legislation will help this way of purchasing firearms IMO.

[Richie Razor]

 

Just a question Chotchkies House

 

I can under stand your feelings on killing of humans but,what are your feeling of law abidding people with guns that sport shoot and harvest food for their family?

 

 

Are you 100% against guns all together?

 

 

 

An honest question I feel being asked here.

 

 

 

 

 

I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with people using rifles for harvesting food for consumption. Actually I plan on taking my hunting courses in the next several weeks and acquiring hunting rifles as I have many friends that hunt and have own land in which to hunt deer, turkey, pheasant and rabbit. I’m all for guns used for hunting, now that’s me typing this as I live in the GTA and must abide by the laws of my jurisdiction. However, if I was living in say Florida or Texas (for example) where owning a gun could mean life or death – and the laws allow ownership of such weapons for protection, your damn straight I’d be packing heat.

 

Personally I think it’s a lost cause in parts of the USA due to all the illegal weapons, drugs, and the sheer amount of Americans living under the poverty line (40+ million !!!) which have a much higher propensity to be involved in nefarious activities. I guess some places in the States you have no choice but to own weapons for protection, I don’t see how American can be proud of this, but with the amount of Gun sales in the USA last year (30+ Billion – non-military) I can say that it’s come down to an arms race on a civil scale.

[misfish]

I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with people using rifles for harvesting food for consumption. Actually I plan on taking my hunting courses in the next several weeks and acquiring hunting rifles as I have many friends that hunt and have own land in which to hunt deer, turkey, pheasant and rabbit. I’m all for guns used for hunting, now that’s me typing this as I live in the GTA and must abide by the laws of my jurisdiction. However, if I was living in say Florida or Texas (for example) where owning a gun could mean life or death – and the laws allow ownership of such weapons for protection, your damn straight I’d be packing heat.

 

Personally I think it’s a lost cause in parts of the USA due to all the illegal weapons, drugs, and the sheer amount of Americans living under the poverty line (40+ million !!!) which have a much higher propensity to be involved in nefarious activities. I guess some places in the States you have no choice but to own weapons for protection, I don’t see how American can be proud of this, but with the amount of Gun sales in the USA last year (30+ Billion – non-military) I can say that it’s come down to an arms race on a civil scale.

 

 

Thank you for your reply. So you are one of us.LOL

 

It is a sad world we live in. Crap happens,but I have come to terms,,,,,,,,,,,

 

 

LIFE GOES ON.

 

Live like you own the world,cause we all know,it can be taken away at anytime.

 

Thanks again.

 

B

[davey buoy]

Thank you for your reply. So you are one of us.LOL

 

It is a sad world we live in. Crap happens,but I have come to terms,,,,,,,,,,,

 

 

LIFE GOES ON.

 

Live like you own the world,cause we all know,it can be taken away at anytime.

 

Thanks again.

 

B

I like that!!!!

[aplumma]

Well written Lew thanks for your view. I guess the easiest way to answer it is you are right there is no easy answer for the US to prevent illegal ownership of guns. The lid of pandora's box has been opened in this case. Closing the box will not cause this issue to go away or change the way we think about guns.

 

I do know that at no time where you afraid to talk, drink, eat or fish with me when we get together other than the odd bad joke I am famous for telling. I was brought up to know that a gun equals meat, safety, recreation, and a real resalable value in a legal manner. This is what I strive to protect the legal ownership of guns and a tradition of responsibility that is available through ownership of guns.

 

The amount of times I hear on this board that someone broke into their car, house, boat, etc. amazes me and I can't believe how often it happens. What happened to respecting others property and personal space? I was brought up with the view if it is not mine don't touch it and it is not the fear of being shot at that leads me to act this way. It is the culture I was raised in that makes me follow this path as well as the culture you were raised in. I personally know that you hold this value so being Canadian or being a US Citizen is not a dividing line here. The issue here is strictly when we add the word illegal/ immoral or unethical is when the gun issue goes bad. That said we can substitute now any weapon (we meaning both Canadian and American) here and all have the same argument should knives/ crossbows, cast iron frying pans be illegal. All can kill but all can be used for legal purposes also. If people look around them they can find a way to abuse anything and kill or maim anyone. Even knowledge can be abused and turned into a weapon take the man approaching you with empty hands he is a SEAL he can kill you burning less than 50 calories or the man passing the other way he can hack into a hospitals power grid and kill 50 people. The point is it is our values that make us do the right thing not the availability of objects that surround us.

 

 

Art

[SirCranksalot]

 

 

Guns don't kill people... People kill people...

 

Riiight! And the fact that Americans own more guns per capita and also have 1 of the highest, if not the highest, murder rates is a coinidence---just a pure and simple coincidence!