Braid to Flouro - always breaking at the knot

[tbayboy]

I'll definitely give albright / advanced albright a shot but I think I'll toss a bunch of pretied with swivels in the bag as well for the quick switches (yeah I'm lazy and tying in the river is a pain). Also going to do some tests with uni-to-uni, maybe I'm just not lubricating well or tying it badly or whatever.

 

Thanks everyone.

[Aaron Shirley]

I use an Albright or triple surgeon's knot. Both easy to tie and very strong. I like the ease and quickness of the triple surgeon's knot, but tie an Albright when the diameter of lines are vastly different or tying a spool of line to backing.

 

Good fishing!

 

Aaron

[singingdog]

First, why the flouro leader (especially if you are risking losing fish/lures)? I understand a leader in a river-fishing environment, but flouro is unnecessary 90% of the time, and notorious for not holding knots. A good hybrid line or mono is fine for a leader, and will hold a uni/uni knot very well. If I am using a leader on braid (very rare) I use PLine and a uni/uni connection. I have never lost a fish at that knot.

 

There are lots of reasons not to use a barrel swivel: the possibility of damaging guides (which will ultimately lead to more line failure than a poor leader/main line connection), and the loss of proper action for certain lures (cranks, jerkbaits, spinnerbaits) are two that come to mind.

[BillM]

How does a XXXS barrel swivel attached to a 24in piece of mono or flouro affect lure action? Also, mono and flouro are way more abrasion resistant than braid is... You run braid over a few rocks or zebra mussels and you'll be losing a lot more lures..

 

As for ruining guides? I've yet to see that.... A little common sense would dictate that you don't reel the swivel into your guides in the first place, lol.

[bare foot wader]

what brand fluoro were you using? was it vanish, that is the worst fluoro out there....maybe you just have bad leaders

 

I fell for the fluoro craze but then returned back to regular mono leaders for most of my fishing....I've done just as well with 80 lb mono as 80 lb fluoro for pike and it's waaayyy cheaper

[BillM]

I run mono leaders for pretty much everything. It's cheap and does the job. If I'm fishing crappie or similar, I'll run some 3lb Froghair, sometimes those little buggers are finicky

 

+1 on Vanish being garbage.

Edited July 30, 2013 by BillM

[mattp33]

I run a fluoro leaders for almost everything, I think its a confidence thing for me anyways. I use either 20lbs or 15lbs flouro in a decent brand that I can get cheap. I only use 20-24 inches of it at a time. I think I bought a spool 4 years ago and still use it. I feel its ok value for the money. I even use seagaur #20 leader material on my flipping stick. Pain in the ass to tie but very strong and holds knots well

[dylan21]

First, why the flouro leader (especially if you are risking losing fish/lures)? I understand a leader in a river-fishing environment, but flouro is unnecessary 90% of the time, and notorious for not holding knots.

 

Why fluoro? because its completely invisible underwater so the fish don't see it and get spooked. It's a finesse thing.

[BillM]

Why fluoro? because its completely invisible underwater so the fish don't see it and get spooked. It's a finesse thing.

 

Not really man, but yeah... It's more abrasion resistant that braid is which is a good reason to use that or mono.

Edited July 30, 2013 by BillM

[dylan21]

not completely invisible but more so than mono.

[singingdog]

Why fluoro? because its completely invisible underwater so the fish don't see it and get spooked. It's a finesse thing.

I have a bridge that you might be interested in....and some swamp land.

[bare foot wader]

not much more than mono..."invisibility" isn't the benefit of fluoro, the real/only benefit is abrasion resistance

 

refractive indexes, air to water 1.33, fluoro is 1.42 and mono is 1.62....it reflects light closer to the way water reflects light, a tiny bit better than mono

[Jigger]

6-7ft of 10# fluoro on 15lb braid. Uni braid, double Uni on the leader side. Lost some pike/musky that probably flossed the line taking the lure from the side. But I cant think of one time the line has broken at the knot. Also only use a swivel when river fishing. IMO, it's redundant unless using spinners.

[BucktownAngler]

i use seaguar fluoro leader material (not flouro line) with a uni to uni knot. I have never had a knot fail. even after having the leader frayed and chewed up i was still able to land an 9lb walleye on it.

 

no barrel swivel needed unless dropshotting.

[msp]

By far the best scissors for fishing. Great for cutting braid, tying roe bags ect.....

http://www.fiskars.ca/Products/Yard-and-Garden/Floral-Shears/Softouch-R-Micro-Tip-R-Pruning-Snip

 

Or these

http://www.fiskars.ca/Products/Yard-and-Garden/Cuts-More-Scissors

 

Uni to Uni knot works well for me for all sizes of braid and flouro

[Dan668]

alberto knot. Works great on my two setups. Dropshotting with 12lb sx1 tied to a 7lb sunline sniper lead. or Shakeyhead 16lb sx1 tied to a 7lb lead. Knot is simple to tie and small. Havent had a breakoff yet.

[Roy]

alberto knot. Works great on my two setups. Dropshotting with 12lb sx1 tied to a 7lb sunline sniper lead. or Shakeyhead 16lb sx1 tied to a 7lb lead. Knot is simple to tie and small. Havent had a breakoff yet.

 

It's an albright on steroids.

[Fishnwire]

How does a XXXS barrel swivel attached to a 24in piece of mono or flouro affect lure action? Also, mono and flouro are way more abrasion resistant than braid is... You run braid over a few rocks or zebra mussels and you'll be losing a lot more lures..

 

As for ruining guides? I've yet to see that.... A little common sense would dictate that you don't reel the swivel into your guides in the first place, lol.

 

 

I agree that a small swivel a foot or two from the lure isn't going to affect its action. But I have to take issue with your suggestion that mono and flouro are more abrasion resistant than braid. Fireline does tend to fray like heck...but that fraying doesn't seem to affect line strength the way the smallest nick to mono or flouro does.

[sauce]

Its all hype. A flouro lead is only necessary in super clear / shallow applications. If I'm fishing the Grand or any other SW ontario river, straight braid. Less knots and the fish dont mind at all.

The best tied knot will give you XX percent of your lines rated breaking strength. XX will always be a value less than 100. Each knot you add to your setup increases the chance of that XX value being lower.

[BillM]

I agree that a small swivel a foot or two from the lure isn't going to affect its action. But I have to take issue with your suggestion that mono and flouro are more abrasion resistant than braid. Fireline does tend to fray like heck...but that fraying doesn't seem to affect line strength the way the smallest nick to mono or flouro does.

 

Fraying isn't the same as being nick resistant... I think we've all seen braid fray, that's nothing new. As for running over rocks and zebra mussels? I'll take mono/flouro everytime over braid.

[Rich]

First, why the flouro leader (especially if you are risking losing fish/lures)? I understand a leader in a river-fishing environment, but flouro is unnecessary 90% of the time, and notorious for not holding knots. A good hybrid line or mono is fine for a leader, and will hold a uni/uni knot very well. If I am using a leader on braid (very rare) I use PLine and a uni/uni connection. I have never lost a fish at that knot.

 

There are lots of reasons not to use a barrel swivel: the possibility of damaging guides (which will ultimately lead to more line failure than a poor leader/main line connection), and the loss of proper action for certain lures (cranks, jerkbaits, spinnerbaits) are two that come to mind.

You do realize we're talking swivels, NOT snap-swivels, right?

 

A swivel would not hurt action of anything, obviously, and will save you line twist.

 

And I'm not an idiot so I don't reel the swivel into my rod tip. That's like saying don't use a musky leader for fear of rod damage. Lol

[lew]

If anyone's worried about the swivel going through the guide, a simple plastic bead on the line above the swivel will prevent any damage and not affect the action.

[Dan668]

Its all hype. A flouro lead is only necessary in super clear / shallow applications. If I'm fishing the Grand or any other SW ontario river, straight braid. Less knots and the fish dont mind at all.

The best tied knot will give you XX percent of your lines rated breaking strength. XX will always be a value less than 100. Each knot you add to your setup increases the chance of that XX value being lower.

Have you seen how easily 10lb braid breaks near a rock? Ill take my chances and use a fluoro lead for abrasion.

[bare foot wader]

no way braid is more abrasion resitant than good mono of fluoro...zebra mussels, rusty dock poles, rip rap, etc slice through braid like butter

 

i use swivels for trolling to help with line twist but i don't like to reel through guides (it does cause damage, can take pics of that) and I typically use a 3-5' leader so it's hard to cast without reeling the swivel through the guides

 

I also look at it as a swivel involves 2 knots, a knot being the weakest point in most cases...where as an improved albright/alberto is just 1 knot/weak point at about 90% of breaking strength

 

another great knot is called red phillips knot...it's kind of a variation on the albright knot, instead of just making a bend in the line, tie an overhand knot pulled extremely tight, fold the tag end forward/down and then finish like an albright or nail knot, have tied both ways with good results, works well with light or heavy leaders

 

i find double uni's and blood knots do pass through guides easily, but have poor shock strength, always break on the hookset, I only use them on fly leaders

[Fishnwire]

Fraying isn't the same as being nick resistant... I think we've all seen braid fray, that's nothing new. As for running over rocks and zebra mussels? I'll take mono/flouro everytime over braid.

 

 

no way braid is more abrasion resitant than good mono of fluoro...zebra mussels, rusty dock poles, rip rap, etc slice through braid like butter

 

 

I don't know what kinds of braid/mono/flouro you guys are using...but you're experiences are completely different than mine. I have found 8lb Fireline to be basically indestructible compared to any mono or flouro in the same weight. I've seen it fray to the point that it looks like old butcher twine...and it's still impossible to pull off a snag without using a glove (or cutting your hand). As for it "nicking"...I've never even felt, or seen a visible nick on my Fireline...unlike every kind of mono and flouro I've ever used. I can cut mono/flouro up to around 20 lb test with my teeth...good luck cutting Fireline with your teeth. If you chewed on it long enough, you'd get through eventually, but you'd never get that mangled end through the eye of a hook. About the only thing I've found that will "slice through braid like butter" is my Klein linesman's pliers. I usually use a 12 lb leader on my 8 lb braid, and my rigs break where the flouro is tied to the termination point, or a few inches from it, about 80% of the time. When I don't use a leader the braid breaks at the knot nearly 100% of the time.

 

It's funny how anglers will have total opposite opinions on things like this. It goes to show how much personal preference plays into one's experiences...and vice versa. A lesson one could take away is that while the experiences of others can be an invaluable resource...you sometimes just have to try stuff out for yourself and see what works for you.