manitoubass2 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) Hey manitou, You want to talk about environment.........how bout i post a video of the tire burning, the hydro station burning, the car burning here in Caledonia we had to endure, You have no clue whatsoever the thing is your lumping two seperate events together when this is obviously not Caledonia. and if those are your examples of harming the environment, keep searching for more. Our Government allows corporations to harm the environment on a grand scale each and every day. You will not see the majority of First Nations people performing, or condoning such acts. I will say I have some reading to do, because I am not aware of the events in Caledonia. I will take a look as time allows, never a bad thing to learn! Edited January 17, 2013 by manitoubass2
Headhunter Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 Hypothetically, should the Idle No More protests get their demands met, will this end what seems to be an endless cycle of protest, poverty etc...or is the only solution for non natives to return their or their ancestors country of origin? From what I've seen and yes, it may be only what the media wants me to see, but it sure seems to me that we have two "nations" fighting over the same land. So to the poster who asked, aren't we all Canadians, it seems not. HH
outllaw Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 we are talking about this. so the word got out to everyone. hopefully after hundreds of years the issue can find resolve. but WHOpays for this
moxie Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 Virtually everything we know is subsidized. If not only the "Rich"(old money) would be able to afford the luxuries we think are standard means. Transit, electricity, schooling, garbage collection, infrastructure and so on and so on. Wal-Mart has a store built for them with the promise of creating jobs and commerce, does anyone here believe they absorb the full cost? Try and get a college education in the U.S for the same cost we do here. Again, its what is done with that money that our expectations should be based on. A "Call to Action". Falling on deaf ears.......Again.
Fish Farmer Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) This is the 21st century. Don't live in the past. Get over-it. Most want to work and some take advantage of the system. Get a job like most and contribute for what you get. Don't expect others to look after you. We are all from foreign descent, no one was here first. To much of this Chicken or the egg thing going on. Just a few trouble makers make it look bad for others. We, the tax payers, are getting sick when we see what's happening with our money. Get a job and quite stopping others that want to look after them selves. Edited January 17, 2013 by Fish Farmer
Tayzak15 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 This is the 21st century. Don't live in the past. Get over-it. Most want to work and some take advantage of the system. Get a job like most and contribute for what you get. Don't expect others to look after you. We are all from foreign descent, no one was here first. To much of this Chicken or the egg thing going on. Just a few trouble makers make it look bad for others. We, the tax payers, are getting sick when we see what's happening with our money. Get a job and quite stopping others that want to look after them selves. This guy has it dead on the money. Its about time to rip of that treaty and everyone living equally in Canada. I don't care who was here first or not. That was many generations ago. Time to evolve people...get with the times. Start working for what you have instead of being dependent on others.
Twocoda Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 Im 1967 the Government produce what is called the "White Paper" legislation which in essence stripped the First Nations of their treaty rights and recognized ONLY the Canadian Gov as rulers of the land to do what they see fit with it ....The "White Paper" was shot down in Parliament by everyone that didnt have a vested interest to gain from it...By way of two omnibus Bills 36 and 45 the "white paper" has found its way into our laws....So now we have no protection at all for our waters and land....the Government can now expand the Oil Sands in Alberta and build the pipeline to feed the USA and China our fuel without repercussion of destroying the rivers and lakes it will cross....Oh and there is GOLD (ALOT OF IT!!!) in the Algonquins and surrounding Territory....the Algonquins dont want the land raped and destroyed for corporate greed (that they incidentally are not privy to any of its wealth which is a violation of the treaty rights ) and will be forced to relocate from their ancestral lands by way of poisoning the waters like Debeers has done and the Oil Sands has done....there will be nothing left when its all said and done but open pits on the ground and desolation of the ecosystems....Buy a canoe and get your life experience trip in of Algonquin Park before the shovels start cranking out the Gold with no obligation to the people....(PEOPLE WITH NO PARTICULAR COLOUR OF SKIN).... Its easy to stay oblivious before it happens ...and shameful to question "what the hell happened" after the facts....
rmarentette Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 I participated in the protest in Windsor and I'm not a member of the First Nations, but I do support their calls for being at the table to discuss the effect of Bill C-45. They should have been part of the consultation process as we all should have. I have attended many consultations at Municipal, Provincial and Federal over the years. However for the last decade there have been many changes at all levels of governments which are nothing more that a photo opportunity where they only go through the motions after decisions have been made. A lot of Canadians have given up voting at election time and a majority only get out at election time to support their favourite party but do little in between other than to complain. There is a lot of damage being done by our complacency, whether or not you agree with me or not I still have the right to protest against what I think is wrong. And as for those who claim to know what their fathers, uncles, brothers, mothers or sisters fought for, I don't believe they fought for a government that continues to take away our democratic rights because of ideology. Take a look at the link and compare this to the occassional tire burnings that some have complained about and ask yourself, who's fooling who? http://www.businessinsider.com/photos-destructive-canada-oil-sands-2012-10?op=1
Twocoda Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 This is the 21st century. Don't live in the past. Get over-it. Most want to work and some take advantage of the system. Get a job like most and contribute for what you get. Don't expect others to look after you. We are all from foreign descent, no one was here first. To much of this Chicken or the egg thing going on. Just a few trouble makers make it look bad for others. We, the tax payers, are getting sick when we see what's happening with our money. Get a job and quite stopping others that want to look after them selves. yeah i get sick of seeing whats happening with OUR tax money too
Tayzak15 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 yeah i get sick of seeing whats happening with OUR tax money too Wheres the section for caucasian people? or asian people? The aboriginals shouldn't get any benefit whatsoever compared to any other Canadian.
Headhunter Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 yeah i get sick of seeing whats happening with OUR tax money too I don't see my group anywhere in that list... opps, yes I do, at the very top where it indicates how much tax payers give annually. HH
Rich Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 Money is allocated from what the bands receive as per the treaty negotiations etc. So education takes up a pretty big percentage of the overall monies a band has to operate with. That my friend, is not "free schooling" So, what did it cost his Native friend then, if it wasn't free? We pay taxes for our health care. But it's called free health care. We pay taxes on educational institutes.. yet also pay for school? So tell me how it was not free?
Twocoda Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 This trek by Cree youth from Whapmagoostui to Ottawa (1100km) is an amazing feat and is a peacful protest that doesnt get any media because well....its boring ....but to those that made the trek it was more inconvenient then having to wait a few minutes for a round dance to complete itself on a highway while one sits iin the comfort of their vehicle
Rich Nelson Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 Caledonia set the precedent for Natives all over the country to do pretty much whatever they want... Legal or not. The police and governments lack of action, and double standard is now starting to backfire. In Caledonia, natives got away with everything but murder... Unfortunately, thats what it would have taken for the situation to be properly rectified. The solution there, was for the government to buy the land, and the natives are still there to this day. Police and OPP didnt have the balls to uphold the law, because they didnt want another Ipperwash incident. Im sorry, but regardless of your color or race, if you chooseto break the law, then be prepared to suffer the consequences. Im not saying I disagree with some of the "environmental" points the natives are protesting. But I believe in the end, it boils down to them wanting another handout, and more money. How can you take them seriously when one of their leaders (Theresa Spence) and husband make $300 000 a year, while "her people" live in some of the wost condition in the country. ( and who do you think designated such a high paying "job" to the husband? Thats right, Theresa Spence. Convenient eh? Her " hunger strike" is a joke as well. Guess she just likes being the center of attention. No doubt, natives in this country were badly mistreated in the past, and in some areas, maybe still are today. I dont think anything is owed to them today, other than treaties that havent been fulfilled. Throwing billions of dollars at them doesnt change what happened to their ancestors in the past, and it is obviously is very mismanaged. This is supposedly a free country, where all people have equal opportunities. Well then , a good solution would be some education, so that everyone in the country can be self sufficient, and have the opportunity to work hard and make life what you want it. This is going to get worse before it gets better....
ecmilley Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 i have been watching this for several days and listening to all the native's interviewed seems the same thing keeps coming up about resources and protection of the enviroment, though it really seems to be about getting paid.
Twocoda Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 Wheres the section for caucasian people? or asian people? The aboriginals shouldn't get any benefit whatsoever compared to any other Canadian. Tayzak if you rent a house from someone and sign a lease....its your obligation to pay the rent ...(read between the lines) If your a Euro Canadian then respect your Queen and her decision to honour the Aboriginals Soverignty for as long as she gets to keep drawing from the pot of gold
Jigs Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) I usually tend to stay away from political discussion online, but I have to say I am really impressed with the quality with which ManitouBass2 has presented his points in this thread and it encouraged me to share some thoughts. I agree wholeheartedly with him. As a hunter and fisherman and as someone who is deeply concerned about the endless pit that is Industry growth and bill C-45 among others I have to say I am favourable to the Idle no more movement. I also think that the disappearance of Traditional Native Culture and in particular that of Ecological Knowledge that has been passed down from generations over thousands of years is a loss not only to them but to all Canadians. Their connection to the land and water and their devotion to protect it is something I have always admired. To see that disappear, I think, would be a shame for everyone not only to Indigenous people. I do support and understand the need for Economic growth and job creation, however I think the balance is skewed and it is an illusion to think that its rewards go back to the people. In my opinion that growth profits big-wigs in Industry and government more than it does the average Joe. I also empathize with those who's routine was disrupted by the protests, but unfortunately to get your point across in today's world you need to make some sort of small impact. I would never however, condone violent protesting of any kind. I have to say in this case, they have my support because I am concerned about the government's attempt to revoke laws that protect Natural Resources in this country and I am concerned about the disappearance of traditional Native culture. My two cents anyway. Edited January 17, 2013 by Jigs
LeXXington Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 These are intresting post and great to read. I have to agree with both sides have points in this issue but I don't think the idle no more is clear on what they want, also on what can be fixed. If the goverment gave a billion more but it went to the select few and then was gone. We would not solve the issues. Both parties need to figure out what can be fixed.
Headhunter Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 Aboringal Sovernty would mean self sufficiency to me… and we all know that aint gonna happen. HH ..
Tayzak15 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) Tayzak if you rent a house from someone and sign a lease....its your obligation to pay the rent ...(read between the lines) If your a Euro Canadian then respect your Queen and her decision to honour the Aboriginals Soverignty for as long as she gets to keep drawing from the pot of gold Is that the best you can come up with? The aboriginals are undeserving and they know it. Not one race of person deserves more tax dollars over another in this country. No reason for you guys to be mad at Harper. You should be questioning Spence. The government gives you the money its the decision of the chiefs on how it is spent. Its time to get rid of the Indian Act Edited January 17, 2013 by Tayzak15
F7Firecat Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 Natives are not being mistreated by our government, they are being mistreated by their OWN CHIEFS. The money is there and lots of it, it just gets distributed to a select few while the rest live in poverty.
Tayzak15 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 Natives are not being mistreated by our government, they are being mistreated by their OWN CHIEFS. The money is there and lots of it, it just gets distributed to a select few while the rest live in poverty. This is exactly it.
fishindevil Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 Natives are not being mistreated by our government, they are being mistreated by their OWN CHIEFS. The money is there and lots of it, it just gets distributed to a select few while the rest live in poverty. ya pretty much says it all....
Twocoda Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 Is that the best you can come up with? The aboriginals are undeserving and they know it. Not one race of person deserves more tax dollars over another in this country. No reason for you guys to be mad at Harper. You should be questioning Spence. The government gives you the money its the decision of the chiefs on how it is spent. Its time to get rid of the Indian Act Sorry i was trying to simplify at my perception of your level of understanding....allow me to fill in the lines for you...but it will require your reading the article rather then my short sited paragraph http://rabble.ca/news/2013/01/message-canadians-dont-let-ignorant-and-uniformed-speak-loudest#.UPgd9jc8EL4.twitter
capt_hooked Posted January 17, 2013 Report Posted January 17, 2013 The protest on Hwy.17, between Sturgeon Falls and North Bay, was very polite and they only hell up my ambulance until the driver flashed his lights and siren. Here is an interesting review by Adrienne Arsenault of CBC: https://www.youtube.com/embed/1ynaC8f5ues Manitoubass2, RRFN (Emo, Ontario, near the U.S. border) this looks like a nice civilized and warm part of the country. Although I have never been there I suspect it would be a great place to visit. But I am curious if you have ever visited Attawapiskat? Attatwpiskat is cold, very cold in the winter. But I would recommend visiting it in July, after the snow melts and uncovers the real mess. My experience, living and working with native people, in far northern communities, for many years has been very rewarding. However I have found Natives to be no more environmentally conscious than the average Canadian and (in local areas) perhaps less so? The great illusion that our Native people are proud keepers of the land and wildlife .. is often only that. When all is said and done, I have found us/we to be very much the same, no better and no worse. So lets try and work together to solve our problems. Thisi is a great country.
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