mike rousseau Posted January 13, 2013 Report Posted January 13, 2013 I have a question for everyone.... I went out in my boat yesterday.... If I flipped and had to be rescued should I have to pay???? It was nice and warm and the launch was spotless... However it was 32 degree water temps... And in a boat in January in Canada..... Ice flows coming down the river... In many ways I was putting myself at a higher risk then during summer months... And many people said I was crazy.... What about all the boats on the Niagra most of the winter... Should they pay if they flip and need a life saving rescue..????? Or superdad fishing 17 miles from the closest open launch in quinte... Anglers pushing the limits and taking risks in their boats get a pat on the back but ice anglers are labeled as irresponsible undereducated idiots that should have to pay for getting into a bad situation.... I know if I pushed the limits and needed rescue I would hope that the tens of thousands of dollars I pay in taxes each year would have covered me... Considering my community has spent millions in the past few years on hockey rinks and a curling club ill probably never use... I think the occasional rescue for outdoorsman should be covered.... If not... Where the heck do my tax dollars go... To the hockey rink for my neighbors to enjoy...? And I get bupkis....? That doesn't seem right to me... I don't complain about paying taxes and insurance out the nose... But I'd like to think that the one time I might have to cash in on services and equipment I've paid for with my tax dollars my whole life... That I wouldn't have to REPAY for what I've already paid for... Mike
kemper Posted January 13, 2013 Report Posted January 13, 2013 I have a question for everyone.... I went out in my boat yesterday.... If I flipped and had to be rescued should I have to pay???? It was nice and warm and the launch was spotless... However it was 32 degree water temps... And in a boat in January in Canada..... Ice flows coming down the river... In many ways I was putting myself at a higher risk then during summer months... And many people said I was crazy.... What about all the boats on the Niagra most of the winter... Should they pay if they flip and need a life saving rescue..????? Or superdad fishing 17 miles from the closest open launch in quinte... Anglers pushing the limits and taking risks in their boats get a pat on the back but ice anglers are labeled as irresponsible undereducated idiots that should have to pay for getting into a bad situation.... I know if I pushed the limits and needed rescue I would hope that the tens of thousands of dollars I pay in taxes each year would have covered me... Considering my community has spent millions in the past few years on hockey rinks and a curling club ill probably never use... I think the occasional rescue for outdoorsman should be covered.... If not... Where the heck do my tax dollars go... To the hockey rink for my neighbors to enjoy...? And I get bupkis....? That doesn't seem right to me... I don't complain about paying taxes and insurance out the nose... But I'd like to think that the one time I might have to cash in on services and equipment I've paid for with my tax dollars my whole life... That I wouldn't have to REPAY for what I've already paid for... Mike I would think there is a much higher risk of going through crap ice on a warm rainy day then of flipping your boat... Of course people head out in 12' tinnys on the big lake in January, and I think that's pretty stupid as well (in most cases).
fishindevil Posted January 13, 2013 Report Posted January 13, 2013 The bottom line is they put the lives of the rescuers at risk because of stupidity !!!! When they might have been needed elsewhere where there might have been a real serious accident !!!! You can't fix stupid .......
misfish Posted January 13, 2013 Author Report Posted January 13, 2013 Funny how no one said anything about the kid on the shore,saying "Is that a kid,whats a kid doing out there" Even he knew better.. Smart lad.
drwxr Posted January 13, 2013 Report Posted January 13, 2013 all the gear left on the ice will attract some new "ice testers" in a couple of days.
BillM Posted January 13, 2013 Report Posted January 13, 2013 You didnt hear buddy. I am the ice whisperer. Famous last words.
misfish Posted January 13, 2013 Author Report Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) all the gear left on the ice will attract some new "ice testers" in a couple of days. Oh you can bet,it,s already gone. Scavengers. Edited January 13, 2013 by Misfish
rmarentette Posted January 13, 2013 Report Posted January 13, 2013 It's interesting that just days ago, some members of this forum called a police officer stupid for walking on thin ice to warn them of the hazard because they ignored his pleas from shore. Fortunately nothing happened. Imagine if that "stupid" officer had fallen through the ice and drowned. He did this because he cared and caring is part of his job. This shows disrespect for police officers, firefighters and rescue personel who go above and beyond their duty to make sure these same "adults" return home to their families. I can only imagine what these "stupid" individuals go through when they have to inform the survivors that their loved ones aren't coming home. I hope I never get so selfish or stubborn to put someone's life at risk because of lack of patience. I also hope I never get foolish enough to take these wonderful people for granted. This story had a happy ending, but I'm not sure some people will learn from this. It never happens to me, it's always the other guy.
crappieperchhunter Posted January 13, 2013 Report Posted January 13, 2013 I have a question for everyone.... I went out in my boat yesterday.... If I flipped and had to be rescued should I have to pay???? It was nice and warm and the launch was spotless... However it was 32 degree water temps... And in a boat in January in Canada..... Ice flows coming down the river... In many ways I was putting myself at a higher risk then during summer months... And many people said I was crazy.... What about all the boats on the Niagra most of the winter... Should they pay if they flip and need a life saving rescue..????? Or superdad fishing 17 miles from the closest open launch in quinte... Anglers pushing the limits and taking risks in their boats get a pat on the back but ice anglers are labeled as irresponsible undereducated idiots that should have to pay for getting into a bad situation.... I know if I pushed the limits and needed rescue I would hope that the tens of thousands of dollars I pay in taxes each year would have covered me... Considering my community has spent millions in the past few years on hockey rinks and a curling club ill probably never use... I think the occasional rescue for outdoorsman should be covered.... If not... Where the heck do my tax dollars go... To the hockey rink for my neighbors to enjoy...? And I get bupkis....? That doesn't seem right to me... I don't complain about paying taxes and insurance out the nose... But I'd like to think that the one time I might have to cash in on services and equipment I've paid for with my tax dollars my whole life... That I wouldn't have to REPAY for what I've already paid for... Mike I agree with you 100% Mike. Well to a point. First time rescue should be covered. Everyone should get one mulligan. But that bonehead on Simcoe last year talking about this being the 3rd time for him..I say he should be money out of his pocket. And take away his fishing license for life.
misfish Posted January 13, 2013 Author Report Posted January 13, 2013 I agree with you 100% Mike. Well to a point. First time rescue should be covered. Everyone should get one mulligan. But that bonehead on Simcoe last year talking about this being the 3rd time for him..I say he should be money out of his pocket. And take away his fishing license for life. Steve When I was scouting lakes north of here just before the new year,I went to Airport rd to see if there was guys out. It was first ice,lots of snow and slush for the most of it. They were all the way over by the island. I said ,well you know. That was just crazy. I even talked to some locals that fish the area and said,NO WAY.
crappieperchhunter Posted January 14, 2013 Report Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) Steve When I was scouting lakes north of here just before the new year,I went to Airport rd to see if there was guys out. It was first ice,lots of snow and slush for the most of it. They were all the way over by the island. I said ,well you know. That was just crazy. I even talked to some locals that fish the area and said,NO WAY. I was out there Dec 29th..all the way to the island. Solid ice and no slush anywhere I walked...except for the triangle crack that always seems to form out from the right tip of the island. Although I admit it was a little thin. I was with a friend who came up from New York. We stayed together and took all the precautions. There was no open water anywhere. It was overcast with little wind that day and it was -4 or -6 for the daytime high and our open holes where freezing over if we left them too long. Also we got there first thing in the morning and there was tracks from people who had been out the day before and a group of 4 was already out in the 22-24 depth of water. The next day the temps warmed up and I have not been on Cooch since. Not sure what point your trying to make Brian. Edited January 14, 2013 by crappieperchhunter
chris.brock Posted January 14, 2013 Report Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) not to hijack the thread, I had to be rescued from a canoe trip a few years ago. We didn't have to pay. I imagine it was fairly expensive too. here's the link for those who haven't seen it http://ontariofishingcommunity.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=66593&hl=missinaibi it's the same sort of thing, doing something a little risky (maybe not as dumb thin ice in warm weather on Simcoe) I'm interested in hearing some opinions on if we should have been charged. I won't be offended. Edited January 14, 2013 by chris.brock
Oggie Posted January 14, 2013 Report Posted January 14, 2013 MIke you weren't told by authorities not to go on the Niagara River. The conditions hadn't deteriorated to the point of being unsafe. Reasonable risks are part of life and nobody thinks you should be billed for an accident that happens if you've taken reasonable precautions. Same applies to you Chris. Crap happens! Now if you're told to stay off of the Niagara because the ice on Erie is moving and there's a blizzard coming in that will hamper visibility then yeah I'd say bill you for the rescue. You didn't listen to the warnings. If you drive around a barricade on a closed highway I think you're billed, are you not? Dan O.
Cudz Posted January 14, 2013 Report Posted January 14, 2013 True enough Wayne. I am one that will venture out on ice that many may not. A good example is 3 years ago at IBP. Guys walking everywhere. One wrong step,and they were going in. Inconsitant ice . Ya me along with others you know were out there. I am not saying whether or not I was with you on said trip but do you remember that guy who was about 200 yards from us falling through? Might that be the day you were referring to?
Sinker Posted January 14, 2013 Report Posted January 14, 2013 I do all kinds of risky things. Breaking ice in my boat to duck hunt. Going out on lake O in the winter in a small boat, walking loooong distances in really cold weather, even ice fishing on thin ice. There is a fine line between stupid, and risky. I've never had to be rescued, because I'm not an idiot!! These guys were plain stupid. I think they should pay. What if it was your house on fire while these clowns were being rescued and the firetrucks didn't make it in time? Would that change your mind? What if one of your kids was in a serious accident and the EMT's were pulling these idiots from the lake? What if someone had a heart attack, and the ambulances were busy waiting for these guys to get to shore and they die?? I could go on and on. It was plain stupid for these IDIOTS to be on that ice. Period! Plain and simple, these guys made a stupid decision going out there. Experienced or not, it was a dumb thing to do! Mike, your boating situation is a whole different can of worms. You are not taking much of a risk by going out in a boat in cold water/weather. There is a slight chance crap could happen, but very good odds you will be just fine. If something did happen, and you needed to be rescued it would be a fluke. These guys should have known better. When you pull up to lake simcoe, and NOBODY is on the ice, that should be your first clue!! If they were in a boat, they would have been fine!! Chris, your rescue was exactly why we have these services. It was an UNEXPECTED accident. Stuff happens. To knowingly risk your life for something as simple as a fish, when you very well should know better is stupid! I hope they have to pay back every red penny! Taking a license away, or creating more legislation isn't going to do squat!! Ski off the slopes in BC and see how fast your billed for the rescue! S.
crappieperchhunter Posted January 14, 2013 Report Posted January 14, 2013 I do all kinds of risky things. Breaking ice in my boat to duck hunt. Going out on lake O in the winter in a small boat, walking loooong distances in really cold weather, even ice fishing on thin ice. There is a fine line between stupid, and risky. I've never had to be rescued, because I'm not an idiot!! These guys were plain stupid. I think they should pay. What if it was your house on fire while these clowns were being rescued and the firetrucks didn't make it in time? Would that change your mind? What if one of your kids was in a serious accident and the EMT's were pulling these idiots from the lake? What if someone had a heart attack, and the ambulances were busy waiting for these guys to get to shore and they die?? I could go on and on. It was plain stupid for these IDIOTS to be on that ice. Period! Plain and simple, these guys made a stupid decision going out there. Experienced or not, it was a dumb thing to do! Mike, your boating situation is a whole different can of worms. You are not taking much of a risk by going out in a boat in cold water/weather. There is a slight chance crap could happen, but very good odds you will be just fine. If something did happen, and you needed to be rescued it would be a fluke. These guys should have known better. When you pull up to lake simcoe, and NOBODY is on the ice, that should be your first clue!! If they were in a boat, they would have been fine!! Chris, your rescue was exactly why we have these services. It was an UNEXPECTED accident. Stuff happens. To knowingly risk your life for something as simple as a fish, when you very well should know better is stupid! I hope they have to pay back every red penny! Taking a license away, or creating more legislation isn't going to do squat!! Ski off the slopes in BC and see how fast your billed for the rescue! S. I go out on early ice and have never been rescued either. I take it pretty seriously Shayne and I think you know that. I however think everyone needs one freebie because stuff can happen. I could be out on marginal ice and some idiot could pass between my shore access on a machine and weaken the ice or it could just crack and shift on its own and I could go for a swim when I'm trying to get off. I understand where your frustration comes from with regards to people making really bad decisions. However that's what these services are for. Say your not very handy but you decide to do some home renos. You end up having an accident with a power tool and have to call for help. At the same time some kid dies because they came to help you instead of going there first. Or your a smoker and you fall asleep watching the TV and your butt starts a fire... and while the fire crew is at your place another accident happens somewhere else and someone croaks because there dealing with a fire set by a moron who fell asleep with a lit cigarette. Do you see my point? I just can't see how you can enforce payment for a rescue if some are deemed good rescues and some are deemed bad based on people's poor decisions? I think the only way they could do it fairly would be to make every rescue pay...and that is one big slippery slop. That is why I made the suggestion of one free rescue and then you pay and lose your license. To me a repeat offence demonstrates your unwillingness to take proper safety measures. A first offense might be an honest mistake or a poor decision...but a second offence...clearly you didn't learn anything the first time around. And my suggestion for a license removal is to try and keep this idiot from passing this behavior onto others. You are correct and it might not stop him from going out...but then again it might. I try to respect the law and I know if I had my license taken away I wouldn't be going out again. At the very least maybe the bozo will disregard the law and fish but maybe he will have enough decency to go alone rather then take someone else which would also keep them from passing on bad decision making. It's a complex problem for sure and I'm not in a position to change anything. It's just unfortunate when this stuff happens.
misfish Posted January 14, 2013 Author Report Posted January 14, 2013 Not sure what point your trying to make Brian. My point was about new ice and snow covered, Steve thats all. I am not saying whether or not I was with you on said trip but do you remember that guy who was about 200 yards from us falling through? Might that be the day you were referring to? YUP The guy was even walking a path made by others,and still went in. Lucky his freinds were close by.
GreenCanada Posted January 14, 2013 Report Posted January 14, 2013 I hope they get charged... They better have to pay every red penny for their rescue. I couldn't agree more. I can't wait to see how much they were fined for the rescue, hopefully it is the majority of what the total effort cost. Just because we pay taxes, etc does not mean that you get freebies on making extremely poor decisions. Well, they did get a freebie, they get to live to see another day. They should be thankful for that and pay up. The next time you do something that requires an emergency response, bear your attitude in mind, and fend for yourself. It is situations like this that determine if we are humane, or callous and uncaring. I'm glad they were recused, but now they need to pay for their own stupidity, by paying the rescue bill. Just think of all the wasted resources being out on Simcoe rescuing those guys tonight , don't get me wrong i'm glad no one got hurt but " guys come on, really " That's part of why we pay taxes, for emergency response units to be readily available for these situations. Highly preventable, but to fine them wouldn't make much sense. I don't pay taxes to let people make what are obviously poor decisions, especially when they were (or would have been if they checked the conditions through various sources) informed through numerous outlets. You are correct, we pay taxes for them to be ready. I for one am glad they were rescued, but they should be made to pay for their poor decisions or others may act just as selfish and unnecessarily put other rescuers at risk. I agree with you 100% Mike. Well to a point. First time rescue should be covered. Everyone should get one mulligan. But that bonehead on Simcoe last year talking about this being the 3rd time for him..I say he should be money out of his pocket. And take away his fishing license for life. I think their mulligan should be that they can be thankful they were rescued. They made an extremely poor decision and should be held responsible. If they are that impatient to fish on obviously unsafe ice, they should head further North to take advantage of the hard water.
kickingfrog Posted January 14, 2013 Report Posted January 14, 2013 FWIW The local tv news has been polling people about whether or not people should be fined for these types of rescues.
davey buoy Posted January 14, 2013 Report Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) Just watching Barrie news,charges will be laid!!!! 2 fellows $1500.00 each! Edited January 14, 2013 by davey buoy
misfish Posted January 14, 2013 Author Report Posted January 14, 2013 $1500 each to the two that went in. Not the two that tried to rescue them.
Steve Posted January 14, 2013 Report Posted January 14, 2013 hope this starts to make some ice fisherman think twice before putting others in danger. i'm guessing its actually $3k to the father, as it was a father son team that went in, no?
davey buoy Posted January 14, 2013 Report Posted January 14, 2013 hope this starts to make some ice fisherman think twice before putting others in danger. i'm guessing its actually $3k to the father, as it was a father son team that went in, no? I heard two fines!
Guest Posted January 15, 2013 Report Posted January 15, 2013 Saw that the guys that got rescued had to leave there gear on the ice. Right now theres about 5 or 6 sleds full of stuff. Im heading out whos with me lol.
kickingfrog Posted January 15, 2013 Report Posted January 15, 2013 An interesting bit from the news footage that I saw tonight. The guys are being checked out on land after being rescued and in the background is a young girl in shorts and a t-shirt.
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