Another view of the Attawapiskat

[kickingfrog]

In today's world it needs to stay near the top of the news cycle.

[Skipper D]

I can't help but remember the site 41 epsiode here in Simcoe county a short while back , and wonder if the same thing could happen with this but with our rolls reversed this time . For those readers that don't know what i am talking about , site 41 was to be the site of a new mega dump being built on top of one of the worlds largest Aqua furs here in our county . Land had been expropreated and construction was well under way with no stopping this mega goverment project . All hopes were gone til our native friends showed up , set up camp and held thier ground for the summer . My wife and i spent time with them in our spare time in thier plite to get it shut down and expireanced our share along with them the harasment to get every one to leave by the OPP . Story in short , the site is no more thanks to our native friends . If the tent folks in Toronto wanted to make a differance hu .

[BITEME]

Ultimately the fingers should be pointed at us.

 

 

Dont point any fingers at me my friend, this is not my fight yet

[bushart]

Apparently 3rd party appointee was tossed today out of Attawapaskat

 

Once again this will not be an easy fix

[Stef]

Another link (video report) with a point of view... lays much of the blame on the locals and wonders where Charlie Angus was over the past seven years he has been the member there.

 

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/1305119208001#.TthH0YE5rm0.email

 

An interesting discussion, I see a lot of validity in what Moosebunk has to say.....

[Rod Caster]

Another link (video report) with a point of view... lays much of the blame on the locals and wonders where Charlie Angus was over the past seven years he has been the member there.

 

http://www.sunnewsne...hH0YE5rm0.email

 

An interesting discussion, I see a lot of validity in what Moosebunk has to say.....

 

The reporter says ..."I don't think anyone in the media had heard of it before"..... The CBC has been mentioning Attawapiskat and reporting from that area for years.

 

He brought up some interesting issues, but reporters like this seem to be more interested in the "big headline story" than anything else. He had no previous interest or knowledge on this subject and basically speed read through summary's and other peoples reports to understand it and re-summed it up in 10 minutes with an angry tone of voice ... I suspect he is not painting the entire picture, in fact I'm sure he's not painting the entire picture.

 

Like Mr. Bunk suggested, very few people know the full story, including I; hopefully the reporting has been mostly accurate since this story broke.... all Canadians need to learn about this because we are all involved in it somehow.

[bushart]

Sun News is the Conservative publication daily---well known

 

And Again----I watched Charlie Angus bring these issues up 2 years ago

 

And I'm not even aN NDP supporter

 

Lots of blame to share here---Sun publications is just spinning their side---Can't have King Stevie Tarnished in any manner

[Bernie]

Apparently 3rd party appointee was tossed today out of Attawapaskat

 

Once again this will not be an easy fix

 

Why kick a 3rd party appointee out?

Just shows they have things to hide there too.

 

Like has been said.

The problem is from both sides.

No one is blameless.

There is much more to the story than what we hear.

[Moosebunk]

I'm not a political guy at all. Don't follow much in media or Government. As far as cold hard facts, when something like this comes up and it's time to take note, I'm usually behind the 8-ball and have to read to get up to speed... The only real knowledge I have on the subject of Attawapiskat and FN's of the James Bay comes from having of course, lived there, and from sharing today a life with one who's first home community and identity has been founded within Cree culture and life.

 

My take on Ezra and the video...

 

Harsh... but as I said above, "there will be some eye-opening and difficult truths," and he did make some valid points. A Conservative point-of-view is as appropriate as any other political party's point of view. Especially PC's maybe, as, we did vote them to power. Ezra is wrong by my understanding on a few things though.

 

The school and hockey arena. The school by my knowledge came before the "Reg Louttit Sportsplex." My father-in-law while serving terms as Chief of Attawapiskat in the 90's, was to raise half of the costs locally and the Governement would match. It took years, but he and his council did this through fund raising events and charitable donations. The school was a mistake made being built where it is, but it was separate issue and had nothing to do with the school and arena being a competition of spent funds for one thing over the other. The school is wrong to be where it is. The school is built over toxic-waste. What Torontonian or any other community parent sends their kids everyday to the dump for an education? The arena... well, IMO it is probably the greatest pride and joy, most appropriately used, and important social pillar Skat has. Dances, bingos, weddings, Pow-Wows, public skating, basketball/volleyball, weight room, hockey/broomball, fund raisers... you name it, the Sportsplex provides that plus community togetherness. A zamboni... YEP... kind of an important part of a hockey arena. School versus Arena as Ezra says... it wasn't ever a competition of choice, it was two separate and important entities.

 

Ezra speaks of Angus's timing. Why 7 years? Well, the bad housing IMO was the same in 2000-2001 as it is now. I used to bike and jog those streets and walk the wood's trails weekly when not living for my work in healthcare there. I've seen every inch of that town, over and over again. When I was there last in 2010 for 6 weeks, I could honestly tell you that it was in the best shape I had ever seen it. One word IMO was the reason... DEBEERS. Ezra was right... they are giving, and Skat doesn't appear to be abusing that. But, I can only speculate as to why Angus has gone to the media now, I'll guess it could be for maybe these reasons... First, Chief Theresa Spence and Grand Chief Louttit combined are the right people to finally have at his side. (there have been some questionable Attawapiskat Chiefs in my eyes over the last decade)... Two, the real issue that there is an actual housing crisis and it is a health-risk to Canadians does exist. Or maybe, Angus' move at this time is just NDP taking aim at Conservatives. I want to believe it is because someone is waking up, looking around, not liking what they see, and becoming proactive. Those proactive people... Theresa and Stan in all likelihood. The validity of their action... 100% undeniably understandable. Remember, under the Indian Act the people of that community on Reserve DO NOT, any of them, working or not, qualify for mortgages. Housing is the responsibility of the Band, Gov. and tax-payer. Tough crud for all involved really, but whatta ya do? I remember doing a home visit to a single room trailer down the street from the hospital and finding out 16 people live in it. In one exposed corner of the small room, toilet, beside wash sink, beside stove. No furniture, nada. Mattresses on the floor, clothes on those. The reason I was there, treat impetego and/or scabies. If someone asked me if that was a housing issue... yep! There's plenty of it going on up there... yep! If someone asked me to take a crap in front of 15 other family members... nope! Like Chief Spence is saying to the media... accounting isn't the (or her) issue right now. Third party people and their slowing the process isn't many peoples issue up there right now... it's the housing. Third party people may be a requirement, but at the same time, to the local Chief acting on behalf of her people, I can see third party officials just being insulting. That poor housing, leads to illnesses. Impetego and scabies are something I see at most maybe a few times a year working down south, up there ya see it a few times a week, if not more. And psychological and social implications of living in overcrowded make-shift homes is a whole other plague on that society.

 

I think Ezra's take and numbers on Band spending has had several rebuttles seen online. Band misuse versus Government oversight versus status quo... who knows? Tonnes of tax payers money. I have with my own eyes seen improvements in Attawapiskat but also a fair share of what is and likely always will be, the norm. Unless hard choices and responsibility are taken on by many folks whom are inadvertently (or not) dragging down their own neighbors, then a new house built up there today will be reduced to an ice shanty in no time. Seen it, and even after Kasheschewan got their 40 new homes some years back, I was told first hand over a few beers shared on the Polar Bear Express with the head contractor (whom had just finished his return to Kash) that by contract he was forced to let all other lined up jobs for the summer go, because he had to essentially rebuild a community a year after erecting it. So much which was shiney and new was destroyed. 10 of the 40'ish houses were OK, some of the 40 had the insulation ripped out of the walls because it had been easier to obtain and burn in the stove, than going out in winter and getting wood. In a sense... I can see why there is some reluctancy by the Government to act too quickly with the wads of money that will be needed. But... what a catch 22 really... the sick and poorly housed versus quick and costly repair.

 

Ezra stated that Attawapiskat has been helped time and again by DeBeers and yet the people in turn blockaded the ice-road to demand more money. I was there for a number of those years, it was Kasheschewan that did this, not Attawapiskat. Kash was paid the millions (as I understand it) by DeBeers to go away and stop being gun-toting trolls on the roads. It worked for Kash, so they did it a number of years in a row. Skat benefits from the mine, Kash does not. Kash was the northern Walkerton some years back... although the water had tested bad, the media hadn't a clue the reality of what was going on, as I understood it. That's another story.

 

Why the crappy houses but yet new skidoos, trucks and TV's with the homes? Why not? Working or not, no mortgage payments, just susidized housing paid to the Band. The little house is falling over because no one ever earned it and it's treated like trash. It's the responsibility of the Band and tax-payer to keep it up to code. Many do respect their homes and many don't in my opinion. The skidoo though... the truck... those are actually bought or put on credit and directly affect the household finances and quality of life. They will be treated better as these are status objects much like they would be to anyone, of any race.

 

It's been said, to have a community there in the first place is a waste of time. It's not viable. Well, whoever says that is forgetting, it's the Governement who wanted and pushed for them all to be there in the first place. And even if they hadn't done that, it was once a place that suited the Cree just fine. Viability is a non-issue to them.

 

I said it above, I'll say it again. HARD CHOICES. NEVER BLACK AND WHITE. HEART VERSUS HEAD. PEOPLE FINDING SELF WORTH AND BUILDING COMMUNITY PRIDE. GOVERNMENT OBLIGATIONS AND RESPONSIBLE LEADERSHIP. The years in the north I spent, certainly shaped me during what were the most cognitive and rewarding years of my life, so far. When Brenda's beloved sister and community educator died in Attawapiskat in 2008, returning there after a six year abscence the place moved me again in a way I'll never forget. All stores closed, the local TV channels tuned in, and the streets cleared out. Everyone in the church (or watching the broadcast from their homes) attended the funeral. Three days the community supported all out-of-towners when finally, in the gymnasium at Brenda's fathers dream come true "Reg Louttit Sportsplex," I shook the hands of about 800 people, alongside my 40 some closest family members. That's a different and beautiful kind of Native and community pride, love and respect, of which I have never seen anytime down here. It's just sad that it seems to only be hardship or emergency that brings about this total community transformation. So hoping that Attawapiskat's peoples and leaders show the Nation what it takes to really heal short and long festering wounds.

 

Good, good people whom require the basic food, shelter, health and education, to hopefully one day go that next level I think they are capable of.

[Skipper D]

I believe you just painted the most perfect picture here MB for every one to be able to step back and see them selves and made it clear for the rest of us to understand what needs to happen . Thank you

Edited December 7, 2011 by Skipper " D "

[ctdd2006]

I'm not a political guy at all. Don't follow much in media or Government. As far as cold hard facts, when something like this comes up and it's time to take note, I'm usually behind the 8-ball and have to read to get up to speed... The only real knowledge I have on the subject of Attawapiskat and FN's of the James Bay comes from having of course, lived there, and from sharing today a life with one who's first home community and identity has been founded within Cree culture and life.

 

My take on Ezra and the video...

 

Harsh... but as I said above, "there will be some eye-opening and difficult truths," and he did make some valid points. A Conservative point-of-view is as appropriate as any other political party's point of view. Especially PC's maybe, as, we did vote them to power. Ezra is wrong by my understanding on a few things though.

 

The school and hockey arena. The school by my knowledge came before the "Reg Louttit Sportsplex." My father-in-law while serving terms as Chief of Attawapiskat in the 90's, was to raise half of the costs locally and the Governement would match. It took years, but he and his council did this through fund raising events and charitable donations. The school was a mistake made being built where it is, but it was separate issue and had nothing to do with the school and arena being a competition of spent funds for one thing over the other. The school is wrong to be where it is. The school is built over toxic-waste. What Torontonian or any other community parent sends their kids everyday to the dump for an education? The arena... well, IMO it is probably the greatest pride and joy, most appropriately used, and important social pillar Skat has. Dances, bingos, weddings, Pow-Wows, public skating, basketball/volleyball, weight room, hockey/broomball, fund raisers... you name it, the Sportsplex provides that plus community togetherness. A zamboni... YEP... kind of an important part of a hockey arena. School versus Arena as Ezra says... it wasn't ever a competition of choice, it was two separate and important entities.

 

Ezra speaks of Angus's timing. Why 7 years? Well, the bad housing IMO was the same in 2000-2001 as it is now. I used to bike and jog those streets and walk the wood's trails weekly when not living for my work in healthcare there. I've seen every inch of that town, over and over again. When I was there last in 2010 for 6 weeks, I could honestly tell you that it was in the best shape I had ever seen it. One word IMO was the reason... DEBEERS. Ezra was right... they are giving, and Skat doesn't appear to be abusing that. But, I can only speculate as to why Angus has gone to the media now, I'll guess it could be for maybe these reasons... First, Chief Theresa Spence and Grand Chief Louttit combined are the right people to finally have at his side. (there have been some questionable Attawapiskat Chiefs in my eyes over the last decade)... Two, the real issue that there is an actual housing crisis and it is a health-risk to Canadians does exist. Or maybe, Angus' move at this time is just NDP taking aim at Conservatives. I want to believe it is because someone is waking up, looking around, not liking what they see, and becoming proactive. Those proactive people... Theresa and Stan in all likelihood. The validity of their action... 100% undeniably understandable. Remember, under the Indian Act the people of that community on Reserve DO NOT, any of them, working or not, qualify for mortgages. Housing is the responsibility of the Band, Gov. and tax-payer. Tough crud for all involved really, but whatta ya do? I remember doing a home visit to a single room trailer down the street from the hospital and finding out 16 people live in it. In one exposed corner of the small room, toilet, beside wash sink, beside stove. No furniture, nada. Mattresses on the floor, clothes on those. The reason I was there, treat impetego and/or scabies. If someone asked me if that was a housing issue... yep! There's plenty of it going on up there... yep! If someone asked me to take a crap in front of 15 other family members... nope! Like Chief Spence is saying to the media... accounting isn't the (or her) issue right now. Third party people and their slowing the process isn't many peoples issue up there right now... it's the housing. Third party people may be a requirement, but at the same time, to the local Chief acting on behalf of her people, I can see third party officials just being insulting. That poor housing, leads to illnesses. Impetego and scabies are something I see at most maybe a few times a year working down south, up there ya see it a few times a week, if not more. And psychological and social implications of living in overcrowded make-shift homes is a whole other plague on that society.

 

I think Ezra's take and numbers on Band spending has had several rebuttles seen online. Band misuse versus Government oversight versus status quo... who knows? Tonnes of tax payers money. I have with my own eyes seen improvements in Attawapiskat but also a fair share of what is and likely always will be, the norm. Unless hard choices and responsibility are taken on by many folks whom are inadvertently (or not) dragging down their own neighbors, then a new house built up there today will be reduced to an ice shanty in no time. Seen it, and even after Kasheschewan got their 40 new homes some years back, I was told first hand over a few beers shared on the Polar Bear Express with the head contractor (whom had just finished his return to Kash) that by contract he was forced to let all other lined up jobs for the summer go, because he had to essentially rebuild a community a year after erecting it. So much which was shiney and new was destroyed. 10 of the 40'ish houses were OK, some of the 40 had the insulation ripped out of the walls because it had been easier to obtain and burn in the stove, than going out in winter and getting wood. In a sense... I can see why there is some reluctancy by the Government to act too quickly with the wads of money that will be needed. But... what a catch 22 really... the sick and poorly housed versus quick and costly repair.

 

Ezra stated that Attawapiskat has been helped time and again by DeBeers and yet the people in turn blockaded the ice-road to demand more money. I was there for a number of those years, it was Kasheschewan that did this, not Attawapiskat. Kash was paid the millions (as I understand it) by DeBeers to go away and stop being gun-toting trolls on the roads. It worked for Kash, so they did it a number of years in a row. Skat benefits from the mine, Kash does not. Kash was the northern Walkerton some years back... although the water had tested bad, the media hadn't a clue the reality of what was going on, as I understood it. That's another story.

 

Why the crappy houses but yet new skidoos, trucks and TV's with the homes? Why not? Working or not, no mortgage payments, just susidized housing paid to the Band. The little house is falling over because no one ever earned it and it's treated like trash. It's the responsibility of the Band and tax-payer to keep it up to code. Many do respect their homes and many don't in my opinion. The skidoo though... the truck... those are actually bought or put on credit and directly affect the household finances and quality of life. They will be treated better as these are status objects much like they would be to anyone, of any race.

 

It's been said, to have a community there in the first place is a waste of time. It's not viable. Well, whoever says that is forgetting, it's the Governement who wanted and pushed for them all to be there in the first place. And even if they hadn't done that, it was once a place that suited the Cree just fine. Viability is a non-issue to them.

 

I said it above, I'll say it again. HARD CHOICES. NEVER BLACK AND WHITE. HEART VERSUS HEAD. PEOPLE FINDING SELF WORTH AND BUILDING COMMUNITY PRIDE. GOVERNMENT OBLIGATIONS AND RESPONSIBLE LEADERSHIP. The years in the north I spent, certainly shaped me during what were the most cognitive and rewarding years of my life, so far. When Brenda's beloved sister and community educator died in Attawapiskat in 2008, returning there after a six year abscence the place moved me again in a way I'll never forget. All stores closed, the local TV channels tuned in, and the streets cleared out. Everyone in the church (or watching the broadcast from their homes) attended the funeral. Three days the community supported all out-of-towners when finally, in the gymnasium at Brenda's fathers dream come true "Reg Louttit Sportsplex," I shook the hands of about 800 people, alongside my 40 some closest family members. That's a different and beautiful kind of Native and community pride, love and respect, of which I have never seen anytime down here. It's just sad that it seems to only be hardship or emergency that brings about this total community transformation. So hoping that Attawapiskat's peoples and leaders show the Nation what it takes to really heal short and long festering wounds.

 

Good, good people whom require the basic food, shelter, health and education, to hopefully one day go that next level I think they are capable of.

 

...you just 360'd me! Very well thought out and written.

[Skipper D]

...you just 360'd me! Very well thought out and written.

 

 

I wish i knew how to have it put on the front page of the Nationial Post this morning .

[Stef]

Moosebunk... well written, honest and I think the best summary of the situation I have read. Applies to the whole social assistance "welfare" dilema, not just to Attawapiskat or Kash. I don't have to go to James Bay, I just look in my own neighborhood. We have non First Nation homes and families here in similar situations.

 

I think there isn't a person on this site who wouldn't put out their hand to help out someone who's fallen on hard times and give them a lift back up... and do so happily with great self satisfaction.

 

But I also think there isn't a person on here who feels they must hold on to that hand forever, to the end of this generation and then unto the next as the children emulate the circumstances and conditions they have grown up in. Dependancy isn't a natural human trait except for a baby, its a learned thing

 

Its a question of whether to give a person a fish or teach them how to fish, building "self worth" as you mentioned (the individuals themselves) and changing the infrastructure (the governing bodies) to allow people the time and environment as well as the encouragement, opportunity and need/reward of making that change.

 

To fix the James Bay situations you have to fix that whole other question as well... a long process. What to do for people in immediate need is more pressing.

[ehg]

The replies to this thread far exceeded my expectations.

Hopefully more folks will be attentive to this situation.

[BITEME]

Thanks Moosebunk !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My eyes have opened wider

 

Peter

[lew]

Came across this on the net this morning

 

http://news.sympatico.ctv.ca/canada/government_will_evacuate_attawapiskat_if_necessary/b5c174fe

[Moosebunk]

I think there isn't a person on this site who wouldn't put out their hand to help out someone who's fallen on hard times and give them a lift back up... and do so happily with great self satisfaction.

 

But I also think there isn't a person on here who feels they must hold on to that hand forever, to the end of this generation and then unto the next as the children emulate the circumstances and conditions they have grown up in. Dependancy isn't a natural human trait except for a baby, its a learned thing

 

Its a question of whether to give a person a fish or teach them how to fish, building "self worth" as you mentioned (the individuals themselves) and changing the infrastructure (the governing bodies) to allow people the time and environment as well as the encouragement, opportunity and need/reward of making that change.

 

To fix the James Bay situations you have to fix that whole other question as well... a long process. What to do for people in immediate need is more pressing.

 

 

BINGO!

 

 

And to Lew's link...

 

There's a considerable start in fixing the immediate. Would like to see the housing fixed quickly, but then the Band and Governement be open to addressing the difficult issues.

[jimmer]

Canadians sick and starving in Canada. Not good!

Why do things have to be so difficult. All this debating???? Send food, water, medicine and the skilled people to get this righted now! Deal with the attitudes later. It's that simple. We send out help internationally at the drop of a hat, let's do it for our own people.

[bigbuck]

It is simply not acceptable for this to go on in Canada!! Period!! We spend millions upon millions of dollars helping other countries and places when this goes on in our own backyard. Utter nonsense. We need to FIX THE PROBLEM, not just throw money at it. Where does every penny go?? The Auditor General needs to take a very close look using a microscope where every single dollar goes before it reaches the band level. I think there is definitely a bloated bureaucracy at work here. The bands have to do something at their level as well. There are social problems that are well known, alcohol and substance abuse need to be dealt with. We have a lot of problems here at home, can we not make them the focus of our efforts for a couple of years?? The media needs to pay attention to our domestic problems and not sensationalizing the problems abroad.

[manitoubass2]

edited to not derail the thread topic...

Edited December 9, 2011 by manitoubass2