All Season Tires

[mercman]

the unfortunate thing about being forced(here in Quebec) is that people who dont have the money to spare, are buying used winter tires.The cheaper the tire, the less tread it has.Tle law here says 4 winter tires, it doesnt say they have to be GOOD winter tires.

Most car dealers are now giving 'FREE' winter tires when you buy a new vehicule.Of course we know that the cost is hidden in the price.

[DanD]

This has nothing to do with the original question; but with Lew mentioning the older tires this came to mind; how many of you remember those polyester bias ply tires.

I can still remember getting in the car after it sitting for a number of hours and start driving away.

The car would shake so bad from the flat spots; that you had to shut the ashtray or all the cigarette butts would be jumping out like popcorn.

After 4 or 5 miles the tires would warm up and round out again. LOL

Looking at today’s tires I can’t believe we accepted that, that was the best they had.

Can you imagine; you’re in your brand new $2500.00 (Yes the decimal is in the right place LOL) Buick LaSabre and you turn to your buddy and say.

 

Yea she rides real smooth as soon as the tires warm up???? LOL

 

 

 

Dan.

[Roy]

I remember that very well, Dan. And we still call them the GOOD days.

[Billy Bob]

I've been driving for 48 years now....yeah, I'm gettin old(er).... and IMHO 4 dedicated winter tires are far better than anything else you can put on your vehicle for the snow & ice.

 

The modern day winter tires with softer rubber compounds, 1000's of sipes and better lug designs just bite into the snow or grip the ice better and get you where your trying to go. Even the old snow tires were FAR superior than summer tires.

 

I've owned everything from Corvairs to Rivieras to 4X4 pick-ups and jeeps and I've used snow or winter tires on every vehicle I've ever had. Back in the day most vehicles were rear wheel drive and we only put snow tires on the rear with sandbags in the trunk. It helped with traction but steering was poor until someone came up with the idea of using 4 snow tires, even on 2 wheel drive vehicles and that made a HUGE difference.

 

Over the years I've either driven or been a passenger in far too many vehicles in the snow and ice without winter tires and there's absolutely no comparison.....no matter what some folks say.

 

I purchased a new 2010 F-150 Super Crew 4X4 this year that came with 18" Goodyear Wranglers that may be great in the snow....or not....but I still went out a couple weeks back and bought 4 dedicated winter tires & rims for the snowy season.

 

Lots of extra $$$$ and the grey steel rims aren't nearly as purty as my OE chrome wheels, but in my opinion it's $$$$ well spent.

 

Every day it seems I get held up behind some guy who can't get traction in the snow or ice with his All Season Radials, even though he probably thinks winter tires are for wimps....or is it wussies

 

GREAT post Lew...... :worthy:

[dickie]

This has nothing to do with the original question; but with Lew mentioning the older tires this came to mind; how many of you remember those polyester bias ply tires.

I can still remember getting in the car after it sitting for a number of hours and start driving away.

The car would shake so bad from the flat spots; that you had to shut the ashtray or all the cigarette butts would be jumping out like popcorn.

After 4 or 5 miles the tires would warm up and round out again. LOL

Looking at today’s tires I can’t believe we accepted that, that was the best they had.

Can you imagine; you’re in your brand new $2500.00 (Yes the decimal is in the right place LOL) Buick LaSabre and you turn to your buddy and say.

 

Yea she rides real smooth as soon as the tires warm up???? LOL

 

As far as I can remember those tires were nylon ply tires. When polyester tires came they were much better for that problem.

 

Dan.

[canadadude]

I've been driving for 48 years now....yeah, I'm gettin old(er).... and IMHO 4 dedicated winter tires are far better than anything else you can put on your vehicle for the snow & ice.

 

The modern day winter tires with softer rubber compounds, 1000's of sipes and better lug designs just bite into the snow or grip the ice better and get you where your trying to go. Even the old snow tires were FAR superior than summer tires.

 

I've owned everything from Corvairs to Rivieras to 4X4 pick-ups and jeeps and I've used snow or winter tires on every vehicle I've ever had. Back in the day most vehicles were rear wheel drive and we only put snow tires on the rear with sandbags in the trunk. It helped with traction but steering was poor until someone came up with the idea of using 4 snow tires, even on 2 wheel drive vehicles and that made a HUGE difference.

 

Over the years I've either driven or been a passenger in far too many vehicles in the snow and ice without winter tires and there's absolutely no comparison.....no matter what some folks say.

 

I purchased a new 2010 F-150 Super Crew 4X4 this year that came with 18" Goodyear Wranglers that may be great in the snow....or not....but I still went out a couple weeks back and bought 4 dedicated winter tires & rims for the snowy season.

 

Lots of extra $$$$ and the grey steel rims aren't nearly as purty as my OE chrome wheels, but in my opinion it's $$$$ well spent.

 

Every day it seems I get held up behind some guy who can't get traction in the snow or ice with his All Season Radials, even though he probably thinks winter tires are for wimps....or is it wussies

4 pgs on this thread and finally a sensible reply

[Guest Johnny Bass]

Apparently...but its ok north of the French river???

I Guess their roads are stronger

 

 

The 400 is made of more cement then asphalt and I would assume that the roads up north are also. Even America roads are made of mostly cement(if I heard correctly).

 

I always wondered why they didn't make the 401 more cement based. EIther its to keep the asphalt people in business or its because the 401 sees the most traffic?????

 

The Asphalt is definetly a smoother drive but in the summer in a traffic jam due to road repairs, and in the winter snow(less traction), it doesn't make much of a difference.

 

I don't believe either of us are old enough to have seen the day where Chains and Studs were allowed, so I guess we've never seen the damage they cause either, but it makes sense.

 

I just find it funny that its ok for the government to mandate a safety Product that "I" have to pay for when

I'm not sold on it as being necessary while sitting here contemplateing a Cost efficient alternative.

Sure it is deemed destructive by the same governmental Institution, but there are no public studies made available to suggest chains are destructive nor that Winter tires are necessary other then marketing collateral designed by companies that stand to Gain from the sale/storage of Tires.

 

And that Tough little pill becomes even harder to swallow when the same government that wants to make it Mandatory, While not providing statistical analysis, wants to maintain the current ban on Chains, and Studs while ALSO refusing to issue a Tax credit to consumers, NOR do they have any intention to tackle the apparent price gauging....I wonder if anyone is thinking about Billys comment about Cross border Business?

 

Thats not only a tough jagged pill...its down right sharp

And for a guy like me who has no issues with the All season tires its just a bit much.

 

If the government wants to make it manditory so be it,

But they need to Provide assistance for Low income families, Tax credits to the average Joe.

And some official studies(not branded) made avaialble for public education would be ideal.

No one wants a cost rammed down their throats.

 

Not to be an ass, but For every pro, there is an Anti...

I know 2 mechanics who say the tires are ok, but between a set of BRAND NEW All seasons and Winter the difference is minimal. The real difference is when Joe Blow replaces his 4 year old radials with a brand new set of Winter tires....that will be an obvious improvment.

 

1) I think its obvious they would do damage.

 

2) Because of too many irrresponsible drivers, sometimes the government has to step in, to keep people safe from these individuals and themselves.

 

3) Price gouging is part of the Capitalist system, and the government doesn't mind because more price gouging equals higher tax revenue for government.

 

4) I highly disagree that the difference between A/S and winters is minimal.

 

Never mind cross border shopping.We should get our tires made in China. $10 a tire.lol

 

What are your ideas to stop accidents from happening cookslav? And stop the insurance companies from continually raising rates(your paying for snow tires without actually getting any)? Which does not bring back the dead.....

 

Maybe we should get an insurance break for having snow tires. What do you guys think?

Edited December 17, 2010 by Johnny Bass

[DRIFTER_016]

This has nothing to do with the original question; but with Lew mentioning the older tires this came to mind; how many of you remember those polyester bias ply tires.

I can still remember getting in the car after it sitting for a number of hours and start driving away.

The car would shake so bad from the flat spots; that you had to shut the ashtray or all the cigarette butts would be jumping out like popcorn.

After 4 or 5 miles the tires would warm up and round out again. LOL

Looking at today's tires I can't believe we accepted that, that was the best they had.

Can you imagine; you're in your brand new $2500.00 (Yes the decimal is in the right place LOL) Buick LaSabre and you turn to your buddy and say.

 

Yea she rides real smooth as soon as the tires warm up???? LOL

 

 

 

Dan.

 

Dan

The new radial tires still turn square in the cold, it just needs to be colder.

Any time the temps dip below -30 to -35 radials exhibit the same problems only not as bad and not as long as the old bias ply tires did. Mine were square for most of last week!!!! Not this week though now that we are receiving tropical temps approaching minus single digit temps.

[DRIFTER_016]

The 400 is made of more cement then asphalt and I would assume that the roads up north are also. Even America roads are made of mostly cement(if I heard correctly).

 

I always wondered why they didn't make the 401 more cement based. EIther its to keep the asphalt people in business or its because the 401 sees the most traffic?????

 

The Asphalt is definetly a smoother drive but in the summer in a traffic jam due to road repairs, and in the winter snow(less traction), it doesn't make much of a difference.

 

 

 

 

The reason less concrete is used is due to several facts.

 

1/ Asphalt is more elastic and does better with freeze/thaw cycles.

 

2/ Asphalt is cheaper to use than concrete.

 

3/ Concrete is eaten away by salt.

 

4/ It takes longer to install concrete than asphalt.

 

5/ Conrete takes longer to cure before it can be put in service.

[ctranter]

Why anyone would argue against winter tires is beyond me. Proven way to save lives > A thousand bucks. What kills me (pardon my expression) is the guys that claim that winter tires too expensive, yet they probably spend thousands each year on recreation (fishing and hunting), or worse, a big screen tv. Happy driving.

[cram]

Winter tires are for wussies.

 

Military/police rescues on the hwy are for wussies.

 

You guys are all wussies.

[mercman]

Winter tires are for wussies.

 

Military/police rescues on the hwy are for wussies.

 

You guys are all wussies.

 

 

takes one to know one !!!!!!!!!!

[Fish4Eyes]

It all depends where you live IMO. Like Tybo said around the city your driving in slush. I have noticed that most of our substantial accumulation of snow occurs overnight, which is when there is the least amount of traffic on the roads. I will take ABS brakes over snow tires anyday. Drive according to conditions and you will be ok.

[BillM]

It all depends where you live IMO. Like Tybo said around the city your driving in slush. I have noticed that most of our substantial accumulation of snow occurs overnight, which is when there is the least amount of traffic on the roads. I will take ABS brakes over snow tires anyday. Drive according to conditions and you will be ok.

 

What are ABS brakes going to do for you when you have zero traction?

[mercman]

It all depends where you live IMO. Like Tybo said around the city your driving in slush. I have noticed that most of our substantial accumulation of snow occurs overnight, which is when there is the least amount of traffic on the roads. I will take ABS brakes over snow tires anyday. Drive according to conditions and you will be ok.

 

EXACTLY !!!

those who drive defensively will always get to where they are going safely.the X-factor is all the yahoo idiots out there, usually under the age of 21(no offense to anyone)who think that a car is a bullet proof suit of armor that will protect them from all perils.

[Billy Bob]

If everyone would just drive a Toyota TUNDRA we wouldn't even have this discussion because you would be driving a 4X4 truck with vehicle stability control, anti lock brakes, traction control, Electronic Brake-force Distribution, Brake Assist and Trailer-Sway Control...

 

Bob, not Billy...

[jedimaster]

ABS Brakes and a new set of All Seasons will stop you no probelm in the winter. I have a Camry with ABS and All Seasons and a Corolla with Blizzaks and the Camry stops better on ice and snow.

Cornering and initial traction are better on the corolla though. Would the Camry stop better with Snow tires, more than likely yes, but I drive within the conditions, leave space between me and front of the car, test the road conditions frequently by applying my brakes when its safe to do so.

 

I am not saying Snow tires are not worth the money, but it really needs to be justified as to where you live, and how much driving you do. If you stay in the GTA and you dont drive much than a new set of good All Seasons are probably gonna be fine IF you drive within the conditions you have. One of the conditions is the type of tires you have.

 

People tend to over drive the conditions, be that snow, ice, Vehicle options, Tire type etc....

 

This is why we see so many SUV's in the ditch, they can go but can't stop, so people don't realize it until they are sideways in a ditch.

 

Snow tires are great and find their way onto every car I own eventually in the winter, but to blanketly say AS tires are not appropriate is false.

 

If you are getting some New AS tires in the winter find the softest ones with deep and widely spaced lugs. Or do what I do, and buy a set of used snows and run them into the ground, whil you save up for a new set.

[cram]

In the Soo we drive on rubber slicks. Treads are for wussies.

[skeeter]

I dont understand

i buy 4 wheel drive, but i still slide!!!!

[jedimaster]

They have cars in the Soo? I thought everyone drove a John Deer.

[DanD]

ABS Brakes and a new set of All Seasons will stop you no probelm in the winter.

 

 

ABS brakes do not stop you and better then a non ABS vehicle.

ABS will allow to steer the vehicle in a panic stop; because the wheels are not locked.

In other words; if you’re in a panic stop heading towards a block wall; without ABS you’re going to hit the wall wherever.

With ABS you’re still going to hit that wall but you’ll be able to pick the spot you’re going to hit. LOL

 

Dan.

[mercman]

I dont understand

i buy 4 wheel drive, but i still slide!!!!

Thats because you dont know how to drive Skeets !!!

[jedimaster]

On Ice and Snow, it does stop better. not sooner. Better. Stopping is not just comming to a stop its maintainin control of the vehicle.

With loose conditions like gravel, sand, Snow non ABS will dig in better. But non the less ABS will still give you better control.

 

If you need to stop sooner drive slower. If yo uneed to brake in an emergency and react with steering, ABS is by far better.

 

 

ABS brakes do not stop you and better then a non ABS vehicle.

ABS will allow to steer the vehicle in a panic stop; because the wheels are not locked.

In other words; if you’re in a panic stop heading towards a block wall; without ABS you’re going to hit the wall wherever.

With ABS you’re still going to hit that wall but you’ll be able to pick the spot you’re going to hit. LOL

 

Dan.

[jedimaster]

I still think the best thing is to have a 6 inch steel spike on everyones steering wheel. Everyone would drive safer. I think this would prevent far more accidents than ABS or Snow tires combined. It may have some unintended consiquiences like natural selection though.

[skeeter]

Thats because you dont know how to drive Skeets !!!

 

that was an actual quote from a lady that caused a 7 car pile up on the 401.

20 years ago i drove tow truck for diamond towing.

that was the first thing out of her mouth when she got into my tow truck.

by the time i got her to her body shop , i had her convinced to call Greenspan (the most expensive lawyer) and file a lawsuit against GM.

Edited December 17, 2010 by skeeter