Cormorants!

[Dave Bailey]

...but pretending that those cute cuddly seals don't eat a ton of fish won't make the problem go away.

 

As far as I know seals are not eating Atlantic cod, their primary food source is Arctic cod, which are not fished commercially. And if seals were the problem, why were the Grand Banks full of cod when Europeans first arrived, and nobody was bashing them over the heads then? One thing that seems apparent is that the present policy of culling seals and hoping that the cod stocks recover hasn't worked. Maybe the seals are eating something that competes with Atlantic cod for food or spawning beds, and giving the seals free rein to eat the competitor(s) might help the stocks recover. I would propose stopping the cull for a 10 year period, if the cod stocks recover, fine. If they don't we scratch our heads. If they plummet then we can blame the seals again and re-instate the hunt. As it is now we don't know. I think it's time to do some science.

[Terry]

I think too many people have the P3TA attitude, bad people bad people love the animal hate the people

 

but we at taking over more and more of the planet.....it's that or neuter most guys...not

 

so we mush control the numbers of animals we are displacing....look at the problems with all the deer and all the bears....we need to control their numbers

 

 

same with the comorants, control is the thing we must do as responsible and keep their numbers down....

 

seagulls...ever go to McDonalds now we really need to control them

[Afraz]

We need to have a study done, with a control.

 

Very doable but i doubt it'll ever get done.

 

Its not the cormorants its the trawlers that net thousands of lb's of fish per session.

 

Ban commercial fishing then deal with the birds..

 

Make it like the good old days... if you wanted to eat fish you'd have to go out and catch one.. Least in Canada anyway..

 

I mean though suckers are considered coarse fish, you often find them in chinese markets labelled as "Northern Canadian Mullet" labeled wrong.. and how sustainable is a take and take fishery..

 

I doubt the MNR goes around stocking commercial fishing grounds with coarse fish fry..

Edited November 19, 2010 by Afraz

[Dave Bailey]

Ban commercial fishing then deal with the birds..

 

There's no way I would go with a ban on Great Lakes commercial fishing unless the science says that it's unsustainable. It has been going on for years and a lot of people and communities depend on it. For sport fishers to say that it is bad for us is selfish. Let's concentrate on cleaning up the ecosystem and doing some proper studies, I'm certain that commercial fishing can carry on.

[Sinker]

I'm biting my tongue on this one.

 

First the cormies, then the seal hunt.........all in one thread.....biting harder!!!!

 

A lot of the replies here are VERY uneducated!!!

 

S.

[Gregoire]

A lot of the replies here are VERY uneducated!!!

 

 

I am wondering what an educated vs. an uneducated reply would constitute. I, for my part, am expressing an opinion. Uneducated and educated opinions can further discussion, and I believe discussion is worthwhile. I am not trying to change peoples minds, rather trying to make people think about something they may have not thought about before.

 

I agree that a controlled study may be the best way to go about finding out if the cormorants are the problem. Culling may indeed be an option. I just wanted to point out that the attitude of finding scapegoats rather than diagnosing the problem is dangerous and will not solve the problem. Please do not mistake me for a radical environmentalist. If it was proven that killing cormorants would improve fishing I would be all for it, as angling is a passion of mine. I just think we need to consider what we can do ourselves to change our behaviour before we look outside of ourselves.

 

If you read the article that introduced this topic it talks about how cormorants will eat larger fish than we would commonly believe (and I believe this article is from the uk). A previous post talked about how cormorants are dangerous because they feed on smaller juvenile fish. To me this indicates that people are looking to blame and find an easy answer outside of themselves.

 

I guess I am really sensitive towards this issue, and am not expressing myself clearly. I do appreciate most of the the opinions that are being expressed.

[Gregoire]

What i find funny is people like you are so quick to blame people but unwilling to consider the solutions that people come up with.

 

People have come up with a lot of solutions, even final solutions. It is the solutions that are based of solid evidence, such as studies, that we should consider. If they are just expressing opinions or based on anecdotal evidence than they generally will probably will not solve the problem. I think I have expressed my opinion on this topic clearly.

Edited November 19, 2010 by fishgreg

[Guest Johnny Bass]

People have come up with a lot of solutions, even final solutions. It is the solutions that are based of solid evidence, such as studies, that we should consider. If they are just expressing opinions or based on anecdotal evidence than they generally will probably will not solve the problem. I think I have expressed my opinion on this topic clearly.

 

Here are a few things for you to consider.First, they were not here in big numbers. Now they are everywhere. Now would you say they are having a negative, positive, or neutral effect to our lakes and environment? Some person noted they are here because the forage can sustain them. FOR NOW! After they wipe out the forage they will start moving to a new place to rape and pillage. Do we wait for them to entirely decimate an area?

 

You said."If it was proven that killing cormorants would improve fishing I would be all for it, as angling is a passion of mine." Never mind angling, which it is clear they are an invasive species, since they did not exist in such large numbers or at all in the past. What about the trees? Have you seen what they do to trees? You dont need a PHD to know they are destroying the environment. Just look at some of the islands they have overun....

 

Those are the negatives, What are the positives?

 

The fact of the mater is the government doesn't like dishing out extra cash when they dont have to. That is why they have been dragging their feet. I say we make them nest? Torch the nesting grounds, and then its open season on cormorants(shot guns)!

[Afraz]

Here are a few things for you to consider.First, they were not here in big numbers. Now they are everywhere. Now would you say they are having a negative, positive, or neutral effect to our lakes and environment? Some person noted they are here because the forage can sustain them. FOR NOW! After they wipe out the forage they will start moving to a new place to rape and pillage. Do we wait for them to entirely decimate an area?

 

You said."If it was proven that killing cormorants would improve fishing I would be all for it, as angling is a passion of mine." Never mind angling, which it is clear they are an invasive species, since they did not exist in such large numbers or at all in the past. What about the trees? Have you seen what they do to trees? You dont need a PHD to know they are destroying the environment. Just look at some of the islands they have overun....

 

Those are the negatives, What are the positives?

 

The fact of the mater is the government doesn't like dishing out extra cash when they dont have to. That is why they have been dragging their feet. I say we make them nest? Torch the nesting grounds, and then its open season on cormorants(shot guns)!

 

According to your logic, everytime a species evolves or finds a niche that it can exploit it is considered invasive and thus must be destroyed. I wonder what the cormorants think of us lol.. As far as invasiveness is concerned we colonized every single part of the world because of our dominance. Now if a species is capable of doing something similar we disallow it because it threatens our superiroity ? comeon.. they are birds lol.. doin whats birds do.. feed and poop..

 

There weren't that many people in Canada in huge numbers, does that mean we should have put a ban on immigration and child birth thinking that our resources would be put under stress ?

 

As far as i am concerned its just natural selection.. let nature play itself out.. if we want to fashion the evolution of our planet and enviornemnt based on our own image and the like thereof than there is no stopping the inevitable.. but for the time being..leave the cormorants alone and worry more about the guys who haul 12000 Lbs of fish catch 10000 over their limit and get slapped with a 2000 dollar fine, still making tonnes of cash even after paying the fine (my numbers may be off but most of you have an idea what i am talking about)...

[irishfield]

There weren't that many people in Canada in huge numbers, does that mean we should have put a ban on immigration and child birth thinking that our resources would be put under stress ?

 

 

YES !

[Whitespinnerbait]

Once a Beautiful Lush Green Island , has now become doo doo stained island

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kingston area

[Afraz]

YES !

 

 

LOOOOOOOOOOOOL !!

 

 

Bat Droppings ruining our beautiful natural resource - Our caves.. Lets destroy them next

Edited November 20, 2010 by Afraz

[Guest Johnny Bass]

According to your logic, everytime a species evolves or finds a niche that it can exploit it is considered invasive and thus must be destroyed. I wonder what the cormorants think of us lol.. As far as invasiveness is concerned we colonized every single part of the world because of our dominance. Now if a species is capable of doing something similar we disallow it because it threatens our superiroity ? comeon.. they are birds lol.. doin whats birds do.. feed and poop..

 

There weren't that many people in Canada in huge numbers, does that mean we should have put a ban on immigration and child birth thinking that our resources would be put under stress ?

 

As far as i am concerned its just natural selection.. let nature play itself out.. if we want to fashion the evolution of our planet and enviornemnt based on our own image and the like thereof than there is no stopping the inevitable.. but for the time being..leave the cormorants alone and worry more about the guys who haul 12000 Lbs of fish catch 10000 over their limit and get slapped with a 2000 dollar fine, still making tonnes of cash even after paying the fine (my numbers may be off but most of you have an idea what i am talking about)...

 

Absolutely! If they are exploiting it at the expense of the existing population, then we have dibs! You said the key words. We are the superior species. If a species was able to conquer us, we would have no choice. Though the rule of any species, is cater to our own before any other species.

 

I'm surprised you and P3TA haven't started the "lets save the Mosquito and Cockroach" movement. After all, they are just insects.

 

If our resources were under stress and we brought in immigrants, we would have to have the dumbest leadership on the planet. And why do you keep comparing people to cormorants as if they were the same thing?LOLIts natural for them to come here and take our food, though its not natural for man to stand by and do nothing about it. They are an invasive species and all invaders should be dealt with.If waiting for them to deplete our fish life and destroy our trees is nature playing itself out? I am not interested.

 

Its like some pickerel fishermen kill Musky in lakes, so they don't compete with the walleye. If your a sport fishermen, you may have a beef, but if you eat fish, you'd be all for it no? Never mind let nature take its course. It makes sense to kill the competition. That is man's natural instinct, when there is depleted resources. They are depleting our resources, so my natural extinct is to wipe them out. Man over cormorant.

[Guest Johnny Bass]

Once a Beautiful Lush Green Island , has now become doo doo stained island

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kingston area

 

Well at least they have the backdrop for the next horror film in Canada.

 

Do they look eco friendly to you?

Edited November 20, 2010 by Johnny Bass

[Afraz]

Absolutely! If they are exploiting it at the expense of the existing population, then we have dibs! You said the key words. We are the superior species. If a species was able to conquer us, we would have no choice. Though the rule of any species, is cater to our own before any other species.

 

I'm surprised you and P3TA haven't started the "lets save the Mosquito and Cockroach" movement. After all, they are just insects.

 

If our resources were under stress and we brought in immigrants, we would have to have the dumbest leadership on the planet. And why do you keep comparing people to cormorants as if they were the same thing?LOLIts natural for them to come here and take our food, though its not natural for man to stand by and do nothing about it. They are an invasive species and all invaders should be dealt with.If waiting for them to deplete our fish life and destroy our trees is nature playing itself out? I am not interested.

 

Its like some pickerel fishermen kill Musky in lakes, so they don't compete with the walleye. If your a sport fishermen, you may have a beef, but if you eat fish, you'd be all for it no? Never mind let nature take its course. It makes sense to kill the competition. That is man's natural instinct, when there is depleted resources. They are depleting our resources, so my natural extinct is to wipe them out. Man over cormorant.

 

 

Take our food ? so you're telling me you're the guy whose been neeting all the dinky perch and frying em up.. i guess you'd be mad afterall.. you are in direct competition with them

 

LOL and Bun P3TA.. i am just saying.. its unfair to dictate that we should destory or control everything in the world that does not suite our tastes.. i mean these things will remain long after we're gone and they were here long before us..

 

Has nothing to do with mosquitoes or roaches lol..

 

EX: Zebra mussels invasive yes - But they have improved water clarity.. I dunno about you, i rather not swim in thick mossy green PHOSPHATE laden water.. everything balances out over time.. And these things provide sructure and habit

at for fry.. not to mention food for many coarse fish such as fresh water drum...

 

I am not being an enviro freak.. But in a country like Canada that has been blessed with so many natural resources i'd hate to see it ruined because of some radical few who have a problem with limiting their influence on natural processes..

[Afraz]

Well at least they have the backdrop for the next horror film in Canada.

 

Do they look eco friendly to you?

 

 

Is this worse than the thousands of acres of forest which is lost due to forest fires because some guy thinks its cool to flick his ciggy out of his moving truck ?

 

Or is this worse than the thousnads ofhectares of rainforest that is being lost, because we need more furniture for our homes..

 

Lol.. comeon man.. there are far more important issues we need to deal with..

 

Cormorants should be the least of our concern..

 

Anyway.. i am just gonna stop posting on this thread..

 

Because its either you love em or you hate em.. no middle ground here i reckon..

 

Cheers

 

P.s. Jhonny Bass i wasn't pickin on you or anything, i was just providing rebuttals to your arguments.. nothing personal..

[Guest Johnny Bass]

Is this worse than the thousands of acres of forest which is lost due to forest fires because some guy thinks its cool to flick his ciggy out of his moving truck ?

 

Or is this worse than the thousnads ofhectares of rainforest that is being lost, because we need more furniture for our homes..

 

Lol.. comeon man.. there are far more important issues we need to deal with..

 

Cormorants should be the least of our concern..

 

Anyway.. i am just gonna stop posting on this thread..

 

Because its either you love em or you hate em.. no middle ground here i reckon..

 

Cheers

 

P.s. Jhonny Bass i wasn't pickin on you or anything, i was just providing rebuttals to your arguments.. nothing personal..

 

Come on. If I could stop people from starting forest fires I would, and if there was a rainforest in Canada, I would do whatever it takes to protect it.

 

These cormorants are directly harming our eco system as far as I am concerned and I want them dealt with.

 

 

As a fisherman, cormorants are at the top of the list as a problem that is not being addressed.

 

I didn't take it personal at all. I'm just like you, very passionate in what I believe it.

 

Death to the Cormorants!!!

[Billy Bob]

OK, Who's out there to save the zebra mussels and round gobies.....anyone, anyone....after all they don't belong even on this continent.

 

People get real, there are no benefits of having THOUSANDS of Cormorants in our area....but if you can name some I'm all ears...then what about the zebras and gobies..........

[Billy Bob]

We need to have a study done, with a control.

 

/quote]

 

In the Buffalo, NY area we STUDY and STUDY and STUDY everything that gets proposed and build NOTHING......2 poorest city in the US and we still have idiots that want to study everything and anything to DEATH...why we even have a group that has stopped the removal of old grain mills that are rat infested, etc....and these groups always have a better way but never put up any of there own money so here we sit....Maybe in a few years we will bypass Detroit, MI and finally become the poorest city in the U.S.A.

[Spiel]

OK, Who's out there to save the zebra mussels and round gobies.....anyone, anyone....after all they don't belong even on this continent.

 

People get real, there are no benefits of having THOUSANDS of Cormorants in our area....but if you can name some I'm all ears...then what about the zebras and gobies..........

 

 

I'm willing to be all ears as well.

[Dave Bailey]

 

People get real, there are no benefits of having THOUSANDS of Cormorants in our area....

 

And there are no benefits to having thousands of chipmunks, or garter snakes, or trilliums, or yellow warblers. What's your point?

[wkrp]

Which came first the Cormorant or the Egg?

[mercman]

OK, Who's out there to save the zebra mussels and round gobies.....anyone, anyone....after all they don't belong even on this continent.

 

 

what about the snakehead too.watched a show last nite that opened my eyes real wide.i'd never heard of them in north america before. where the heck do these cormarants come from anyways.I'm gathering they are an invasive species.

[Billy Bob]

And there are no benefits to having thousands of chipmunks, or garter snakes, or trilliums, or yellow warblers. What's your point?

 

So, I have to ask, what's your favorite tree to hug....

 

Please tell me where in the world we are being over run with chipmunks, or garter snakes....never see more than a hand full at any one give time and I'm the woods hunting all fall long...maybe you're just a nut case...

[Dave Bailey]

So, I have to ask, what's your favorite tree to hug....

 

Maples, I love the syrup.

 

Please tell me where in the world we are being over run with chipmunks, or garter snakes....never see more than a hand full at any one give time and I'm the woods hunting all fall long...maybe you're just a nut case...

 

And what classifies as being 'over run'? If cormorants had always been around here in the numbers they are now it would be considered normal. The fact is that the current range expansion is a natural event, species expand and contract their ranges all the time as environmental conditions change. And if you read my article carefully you would understand that I do not say that we should do nothing, but what I believe we should not do is a knee-jerk reaction. It should be obvious to anyone that something has changed to allow them to expand, so let's find out what it is. If we find out that they are chomping down on round gobies and the fry of asian carp, would you then still feel like exterminating them? And when P E T A comes calling, as they surely will, we may find ourselves fighting on three fronts - cormorants, P E T A, and public opinion.