Big Bad Wolf

[Pigeontroller]

"And wolves are a billion times more sentient than a fish"

 

 

I don't think I'd shoot a Wolf either...But that is the dumbest statement I've ever seen!

[cram]

"And wolves are a billion times more sentient than a fish"

 

 

I don't think I'd shoot a Wolf either...But that is the dumbest statement I've ever seen!

 

Not really Dax. Fish really act on instinct. Those instincts may be highly refined, sophisticated, and effective.....but they don't think subjectively or with a serious level of context or emotion. They have the simplest brains of all vertebrates, and msot of their "thinking" happens in the brain stem where stuff is more "automatic" than thoguht through...if htat makes sense.

 

To give you some examples - do you think a fish has fun? Feels sad? Feels regret? Loyalty? Anger? OR does a fish ever think -- hey, maybe i'll go over to the other side of hte lake and see what Joe's doing?

 

I don't think a musky ever thinks any of those things. I know my dog does.

[bigfish1965]

Not really Dax. Fish really act on instinct. Those instincts may be highly refined, sophisticated, and effective.....but they don't think subjectively or with a serious level of context or emotion. They have the simplest brains of all vertebrates, and msot of their "thinking" happens in the brain stem where stuff is more "automatic" than thoguht through...if htat makes sense.

 

To give you some examples - do you think a fish has fun? Feels sad? Feels regret? Loyalty? Anger? OR does a fish ever think -- hey, maybe i'll go over to the other side of hte lake and see what Joe's doing?

 

I don't think a musky ever thinks any of those things. I know my dog does.

 

There is a difference between intelligent, emotional and sentient. I don't think dogs are sentient.

[cram]

There is a difference between intelligent, emotional and sentient. I don't think dogs are sentient.

 

Could be a zillion page thread that incorporates different views on religion, philosophy, etc. In short, maybe we define sentience differently.

 

I think a dog...

- has feelings (joy, sadness, angry, etc)

- is self aware (ever see a dog walk around a room boasting with pride with a big stick or a ball in its mouth, or a dog that's embarassed?)

- is subjective...(see a dog act more gently around elderly or babies)

- has relationships (its pretty hardwired in them, obviously.....its what makes them great pets).

 

I don't know that it is sentience....but its definitely different from a fish.

 

And i love fish...they're just more "simple".

 

Anyway - i'm don't disparage anyone who hunts wolves. It is everyone's legal right. I just wish the laws were different. I also think fishign for musky with live bait should be illegal. And i think the sport fishing possession limits are often too high. I'm not a P3TA type...just happen to like wolves.

 

I also enjoy eating venison, moose, duck, and ruffled grouse.

Edited February 27, 2010 by cram

[xeon]

When you're openly suggesting taking away peoples rights that use them, it pisses people off.

 

Wolves are NO smarter than coyotes, much stupider actually IMO.

[danbouck]

mmm wolf!

[T Fisher]

If you lived in EU you would understand why they are hunted. Sheep farmers, Dairy farmers anyone with live stock loose many animals to these wolfs. They also play coye with family pets when they can't get live stock for there food sorce. I've seen the damage these wolfs can do. They clean out whole towns of dogs and cats for dinner. Heck you get rewarded by the town for killing a wolf of that size in the EU, you get treated LIKE ROYALTY by the town folk. Don't feel bad you none hunters as the big bad wolf has also taken children for a easy meal in many parts of the EU.

Edited February 27, 2010 by T Fisher

[danc]

Regarding the size of the wolves in the picture I've seen animals that size in the interior of Pukaskwa National park.

Pretty much the size of a deer, just unreal.

 

Mike. I claimed to have seen wolves of that size in a wolf thread a year or so go. I was told that I didn't know what I was talking about, that I'm a liar, that I'm crazy and should be committed. So I guess that you're all of those things too. Maybe we could get adjoining rooms in the same institution and arrange our weekend passes at the same time and do a little fishing? As long as we're back by 5.

 

By the way, the wolves of that magnitude that I've seen have been in the Hudson Bay lowlands. Maybe it had something to do with those wild mushrooms that I couldn't get enough of.

[irishfield]

Get a room for me too... as I saw two of that stature on a rock cut, while driving across the road from Wawa to Timmins. Just west of the Provincial Park on that road.

Edited February 27, 2010 by irishfield

[Daplumma]

Mike. I claimed to have seen wolves of that size in a wolf thread a year or so go. I was told that I didn't know what I was talking about, that I'm a liar, that I'm crazy and should be committed. So I guess that you're all of those things too. Maybe we could get adjoining rooms in the same institution and arrange our weekend passes at the same time and do a little fishing? As long as we're back by 5.

 

By the way, the wolves of that magnitude that I've seen have been in the Hudson Bay lowlands. Maybe it had something to do with those wild mushrooms that I couldn't get enough of.

Make no mistake aboot it Dan,you should be commited..Nuttin to do with seeing wolves though.Just so ya know.

Joe

[danc]

Make no mistake aboot it Dan,you should be commited..Nuttin to do with seeing wolves though.Just so ya know.

Joe

 

You need a room too Joe? That makes 4 of us. Time to hang out the "no vancancy" sign. I can't think of 3 better guys to be institutionalized with.

[irishfield]

There'll be beer delivery... correct??

[danc]

There'll be beer delivery... correct??

 

We'll have to Ebay it in Wayne. Get the sender to mark it as "Crafts. Ages 8 to 12", and we should be ok. Just don't let Joe order it cuz we'll want real beer.

[kerr]

did u taste em?

[Big Cliff]

You need a room too Joe? That makes 4 of us. Time to hang out the "no vancancy" sign. I can't think of 3 better guys to be institutionalized with.

 

Sounds like the making of an OFC G2G I'll even wear my little hat with the propeller on it if I can come too!

[Daplumma]

You need a room too Joe? That makes 4 of us. Time to hang out the "no vancancy" sign. I can't think of 3 better guys to be institutionalized with.

I'm in for sure!

Joe

[solopaddler]

Maybe we could get adjoining rooms in the same institution and arrange our weekend passes at the same time and do a little fishing? As long as we're back by 5.

 

By the way, the wolves of that magnitude that I've seen have been in the Hudson Bay lowlands. Maybe it had something to do with those wild mushrooms that I couldn't get enough of.

 

 

 

There's no doubt in my mind that you saw what you claimed to see.

 

Amazingly enough I never actually saw a single wolf in all my travels in the Hudsons Bay lowlands, on the rivers that spill into the bay.

Polar bears yes, wolves no.

 

 

The wolf I saw in Puk actually walked into my campsite, stopped and stared at me from maybe 30 feet away.

It was reddish brown in colour, very shaggy looking. Actually thought it was a deer at first because of it's size and colour.

That animal was bigger than me.

[ch312]

Could be a zillion page thread that incorporates different views on religion, philosophy, etc. In short, maybe we define sentience differently.

 

I think a dog...

- has feelings (joy, sadness, angry, etc)

- is self aware (ever see a dog walk around a room boasting with pride with a big stick or a ball in its mouth, or a dog that's embarassed?)

- is subjective...(see a dog act more gently around elderly or babies)

- has relationships (its pretty hardwired in them, obviously.....its what makes them great pets).

 

I don't know that it is sentience....but its definitely different from a fish.

 

And i love fish...they're just more "simple".

 

Anyway - i'm don't disparage anyone who hunts wolves. It is everyone's legal right. I just wish the laws were different. I also think fishign for musky with live bait should be illegal. And i think the sport fishing possession limits are often too high. I'm not a P3TA type...just happen to like wolves.

 

I also enjoy eating venison, moose, duck, and ruffled grouse.

 

i think you just listed everything that a deer can do? even pigs can do all the things you just listed...

 

so, what makes wolves better than pigs or deer?

[Sinker]

I've been trying to stay out of this, but I just can't figure out why its OK to kill a wolf fish, and not a wolf? Is it just because the wolf fish is ugly?

 

I wonder how many wolves are actually killed by hunters in Ontario per season? I bet not that many. Not enough to make a difference on populations, anyways.

 

I'd say it takes a lot more skill to kill a wolf, than most other "critters".

 

S.

[CLofchik]

I wonder how many wolves are actually killed by hunters in Ontario per season? I bet not that many. Not enough to make a difference on populations, anyways.

 

Tell that to the cougars.

 

I'd say it takes a lot more skill to kill a wolf, than most other "critters".

 

Not much skill in hunting over bait from a stand.

[Cookslav]

Tell that to the cougars.

Not really applicable the to coversation considering they were hunted in Ontario to near extinction around say...the 1800's

Long before there was such a thing as conservation or the MNR.

 

Not much skill in hunting over bait from a stand.

I'd agree its not as sporting but thats only one way to hunt...

Kinda like the different ways to fish...

Chumming and still fishing bait is the same thing.

[bassman87]

we're starting to sound like a bunch of girls, lets just go fishing. or shoot a wolf, whatever manly men do.

[cram]

i think you just listed everything that a deer can do? even pigs can do all the things you just listed...

 

so, what makes wolves better than pigs or deer?

 

Way to take something WAY out of context. I was responding to Rick's assertion that dogs aren't sentient.

 

Pigs and deer are as well (to different degrees....deer less, pigs similar or maybe even more than a dog). Big difference is when we harvest deer we generally eat them.

 

Don't just kill them for the heck of it.

Edited February 28, 2010 by cram

[bigfish1965]

Way to take something WAY out of context. I was responding to Rick's assertion that dogs aren't sentient.

 

Pigs and deer are as well (to different degrees....deer less, pigs similar or maybe even more than a dog). Big difference is when we harvest deer we generally eat them.

 

Don't just kill them for the heck of it.

 

Don't get me wrong, cram....I am a big dog lover. I prefer dogs to most humans in fact.

But my understanding of sentience is self-awareness which involves the understanding of ones own mortality beyond fight or flight.

But after reading the article on Wikipedia, I may be off...

[xeon]

Not much skill in hunting over bait from a stand.

 

Try an archery hunt for wolf and tell me there's not much skill involved. Or, try to put on a killing shot at 50-300yards while you're adrenaline is going and tell me there's not much skill involved with that either.