Big Bad Wolf

[ch312]

If its taken in a legal season there is nothing wrong with it at all, and its no different then harvesting any other animal, or fish for that matter.

Be it for a hide, sustinace or trophy its legal and I'd tread carefully on how you value one animal over another lest ye give P3TA amunition.

Outdoorsman alike should support our kin even if is not our cup of tea.

 

If I shot a wolf for a hide...is it any different then you taking a Muskie, or a bass in season to be stuffed?

Its the same thing except some people revere Wolves as Dogs, and think of them as Pets....which they ain't.

 

The MNR sets the guidelines around here, and they do it based on hard science to promote "healthy" populations keeping sport in mind as a secondary thought.

It all plays into a master plan that acounts for other animals that the Wolves prey on such as Beavers, Rabbits, Deer, Moose etc...

It's all about balance, and we should leave that to the experts.

 

Its the tree hugger mantality that canceled the Spring Bear hunt and that is not exsactly sitting well with people these day is it?

 

To each there own as long as its with in the law, and the law is doing their due dillegence in supporting a sustainable healthy population.

 

Sorry if I come across as harsh but don't go spouting off about wanting to hunt the hunters cause you feel bad for the big wild puppy dogs

 

x2

 

this is a fishing AND hunting forum so hunting should be openly accepted. if you are against legal hunting then kindly push the "back" button and start viewing other threads that suit your taste. theres no need for those who are against hunting to make comments and start any form of ethics debate.

 

that said, id nail that sucker and make a purdy rug outta him

[Freshtrax]

im with rizzo...if it were round my house i would shoot it too...

[ch312]

Killing whales was legal at one point as well. Think about that.

 

whaling was not stopped because they are "smart" animals. it was stopped because the populations sank off the charts due to over harvesting and not having proper regulations in the past...

[xeon]

If its taken in a legal season there is nothing wrong with it at all, and its no different then harvesting any other animal, or fish for that matter.

Be it for a hide, sustinace or trophy its legal and I'd tread carefully on how you value one animal over another lest ye give P3TA amunition.

Outdoorsman alike should support our kin even if is not our cup of tea.

 

If I shot a wolf for a hide...is it any different then you taking a Muskie, or a bass in season to be stuffed?

Its the same thing except some people revere Wolves as Dogs, and think of them as Pets....which they ain't.

 

The MNR sets the guidelines around here, and they do it based on hard science to promote "healthy" populations keeping sport in mind as a secondary thought.

It all plays into a master plan that acounts for other animals that the Wolves prey on such as Beavers, Rabbits, Deer, Moose etc...

It's all about balance, and we should leave that to the experts.

 

Its the tree hugger mantality that canceled the Spring Bear hunt and that is not exsactly sitting well with people these day is it?

 

To each there own as long as its with in the law, and the law is doing their due dillegence in supporting a sustainable healthy population.

 

Sorry if I come across as harsh but don't go spouting off about wanting to hunt the hunters cause you feel bad for the big wild puppy dogs

 

I definitely agree with what you have written.

 

Furthermore, people have to realize that everyone has their own view on ethics, and everyone likes to express it. What they don't realize is, nobody cares about your ethics, because unless you're easily persuaded, your ethics are set in stone and are not changing -both a good and bad thing. When someone doesn't like what they hear, they turn into holier than thou fundamentalists, or what I like to call "weekend conservationists". Don't dare shoot the plentiful dogs for sport because its disgusting, but you're dam right we're keeping the biggest fish in the lake for a conversation piece. Seriously, wheres the difference? How about stop putting different species into different piles based on your "Give-a-Dam" scale. You can spray a bee hive in Raid with a big smile on your face, but would shed a tear putting a hole through a dog.

 

As to how we should define our ethics and actions, generally speaking we use the law. It's basically the "bottom line" to determine if something is ethical or not, mainly because its a set of rules formed by our government that we all, in the end, have to agree with.

 

So to those who don't like the hunted wolves, its time to open your mind up a bit. Hunting doesn't always have to be just for food, there is a factor of sport involved with it.

[xeon]

I don't mind hunting when the animal is harvested for sport AND food. Not really a fan of harvesting for trophies....be it a wolf, a musky, or anythign else for that matter.

 

And, to your point -- muskies have tiny brains that are very simple. They are more instinctive than thinkers. They certainly do not have emotions.

 

Wolves are intelligent, social animals. They collaborate on hunts...and do things that demonstrate intelligence and sentience that fish and deer/moose/etc don't have.

 

I don't blame anyone for hunting wolves...it is legal. But, i do think it should be illegal.

 

Killing whales was legal at one point as well. Think about that.

 

You've never seen muskies hunt in groups? You don't think they feel pain when they're flopping around on the floor of your boat? You don't think that other animals are smart, just the wolf? I'm really confused here. Even ants show they are intelligent.

 

Have you seen a wolf before, or just on TV?

Edited February 26, 2010 by xeon

[archie_james_c]

It was shot in Bulgaria if I'm not mistaken... There are stories of it being shot in Alberta and even Gogama!! lol

 

 

Sorry, Edson Alberta or Wyoming...can't seem to get an answer. It was aired on TV though. Heres the various forum links and what not...

 

 

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=34797

 

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showt...wolf&page=3

 

The company who claimed their bait attractants lured the big blackie in...

 

http://www.grimsmonstermix.com/gallery.htm

[cram]

whaling was not stopped because they are "smart" animals. it was stopped because the populations sank off the charts due to over harvesting and not having proper regulations in the past...

 

Exactly.

 

But, don't you think if it were open for debate today most people on this site would be against it?

[cram]

You've never seen muskies hunt in groups? You don't think they feel pain when they're flopping around on the floor of your boat? You don't think that other animals are smart, just the wolf? I'm really confused here. Even ants show they are intelligent.

 

Have you seen a wolf before, or just on TV?

 

Wolves collaborate in groups....not in a mob like a pack of fish. They set up pre-determined ambush points....with some members of the pack driving the prey towards it. They are far more intelligent than the ungulates that they (and we) eat. And they are a billion times more intelligent than a fish.

 

And no, muskies don't feel pain the same way we do. It is instinctive. Processed in the brain stem. Even an amoeba will writhe around to try to escape a pin prick.

 

Anyway - i'm not slamming hunting. I ate venison earlier this week. I just don't like hunting wolves. Not saying someone is wrong to do it - its legal. I just don't like that its legal.

 

And like i said in an earlier post - hunt these wolves instead....

 

[xeon]

Wolves collaborate in groups....not in a mob like a pack of fish. They set up pre-determined ambush points....with some members of the pack driving the prey towards it. They are far more intelligent than the ungulates that they (and we) eat. And they are a billion times more intelligent than a fish.

 

And no, muskies don't feel pain the same way we do. It is instinctive. Processed in the brain stem. Even an amoeba will writhe around to try to escape a pin prick.

 

Anyway - i'm not slamming hunting. I ate venison earlier this week. I just don't like hunting wolves. Not saying someone is wrong to do it - its legal. I just don't like that its legal.

 

And like i said in an earlier post - hunt these wolves instead....

 

 

Im shooting 2 for you this fall, just because you said that. The local moose will thank you for your opinion.

 

Edit: Im also shooting those moose.

Edited February 26, 2010 by xeon

[cram]

Im shooting 2 for you this fall, just because you said that. The local moose will thank you for your opinion.

 

Edit: Im also shooting those moose.

 

congrats.

 

I'd love some moose steaks if you can spare any.

Edited February 26, 2010 by cram

[archie_james_c]

congrats.

 

I'd love some moose steaks if you can spare any.

 

 

Well there wont be any moose for you, because you didn't kill a wolf and thusly...the wolf you failed to kill...in turn killed a moose..

 

 

By the way I drink tea...black, no dairy at all...

[cram]

Well there wont be any moose for you, because you didn't kill a wolf and thusly...the wolf you failed to kill...in turn killed a moose..

 

 

By the way I drink tea...black, no dairy at all...

 

I was joking about the soy milk. An idea of something else you mgiht find "faggoty".

Edited February 26, 2010 by cram

[archie_james_c]

I was joking about the soy milk. An idea of something else you mgiht find "faggoty".

]

 

Im aware...but I don;t live down south, I live north...and here the wolves put a bigger hurt on them then deer do.

 

I don't find soy "faggoty", I'm sure there are people who are much more of a man then I ever will be who drink soy. I just find it "faggoty" that you are so out to lunch on this discussion of predator hunting...

 

Good night guys, I gotta dream of Lindy rigging in my new boat!!!

 

EDIT- I bet this thread is on lock down by 8:30 am...just about the time the mod's crawl out of bed and have a scroll on the forum .

 

Double EDIT- Nice edit by the way

Edited February 26, 2010 by archie_james_c

[xeon]

Cram, do you know about the Coyote bounty in Saskatchewan? Its $20/dog. Basically an endless killing spree. The government believes that there is an over abundance of coyotes so they need to be "thinned" in a sense. I'd say coyotes are even smarter than wolves from allot of things I've seen. Are you going to get upset over that too now that even smarter animals are being shot left and right?

http://www.agriculture.gov.sk.ca/coyote-control

 

Basically, the OMNR has switched to a "SUSTAINABILITY" approach to fisheries and wildlife management. That means, if something can not SUSTAIN an open season, there will, under no circumstance, be an open season. The wolves are currently open to harvest because they are... SUSTAINABLE. Also, there is $$$ in it for the government if Americans come up and hunt them through license costs. That money is then put into a special purpose account for Fish and Wildlife related use, which helps pay for your fish stocking for example.

 

If you don't like it, well, thats kinda too bad, its going to happen, and keep on happening. And some of us will continue to thoroughly enjoy it.

[cram]

Cram, do you know about the Coyote bounty in Saskatchewan? Its $20/dog. Basically an endless killing spree. The government believes that there is an over abundance of coyotes so they need to be "thinned" in a sense. I'd say coyotes are even smarter than wolves from allot of things I've seen. Are you going to get upset over that too now that even smarter animals are being shot left and right?

http://www.agriculture.gov.sk.ca/coyote-control

 

Basically, the OMNR has switched to a "SUSTAINABILITY" approach to fisheries and wildlife management. That means, if something can not SUSTAIN an open season, there will, under no circumstance, be an open season. The wolves are currently open to harvest because they are... SUSTAINABLE. Also, there is $$$ in it for the government if Americans come up and hunt them through license costs. That money is then put into a special purpose account for Fish and Wildlife related use, which helps pay for your fish stocking for example.

 

If you don't like it, well, thats kinda too bad, its going to happen, and keep on happening. And some of us will continue to thoroughly enjoy it.

 

 

Yeah, i get it. And you guys are misinterpreting me as some sort of preacher. If you follow the thread you'll see i didn't slam wolf hunting at the beginning (i posted a pic of a fish).....just the guy sayign that those who don't like it are morons. I don't think i'm a moron.

 

But we're all entitled to our opinions i guess.

[xeon]

Yeah, i get it. And you guys are misinterpreting me as some sort of preacher. If you follow the thread you'll see i didn't slam wolf hunting at the beginning (i posted a pic of a fish).....just the guy sayign that those who don't like it are morons. I don't think i'm a moron.

 

But we're all entitled to our opinions i guess.

 

I don't think you're a moron at all, just very misinformed and prejudice on wolf hunting and even some aspects of hunting in general.

[Roy]

]

EDIT- I bet this thread is on lock down by 8:30 am...just about the time the mod's crawl out of bed and have a scroll on the forum .

 

And no, archie..while I may appear to be crawling out of bed, it's just my short stature. If I was to be getting out of bed after 6am, the morgue would be assisting. But thanks for your vote of confidence.

[CLofchik]

Basically, the OMNR has switched to a "SUSTAINABILITY" approach to fisheries and wildlife management. That means, if something can not SUSTAIN an open season, there will, under no circumstance, be an open season. The wolves are currently open to harvest because they are... SUSTAINABLE.

 

Uh huh, so there's no spring bear hunt because it was found to be unsustainable? There's as much "science" that goes into hunting regs as there is in Atlantic salmon stocking.

 

How many years has it been since wolf howl gatherings in Algonquin have actually heard wolves?

[Big Cliff]

For or against I really don't care what someone else thinks of it. I wouldn't shoot a wolf or coyote just for the fun of it but that is just my opinion.

 

However, in the last few years there have been so many coyotes around here that they have started to become a real problem. They are getting bolder coming right into farm yards and killing live stock even in broad day light. It use to be very rare that you'd even catch a glimps of one, we often see them out here on the lake now.

 

A local farmer shot 23 of them here last winter, most of them right from his back porch. Four years ago there were lots of turkeys and deer around here then a pack of coyotes moved into the area. It didn't take very long before we started to see less and less deer and turkey. When their populations dropped the coyotes started going for livestock.

 

I am very privlidged to be able to hunt several farms around here but I can tell you right now that if I was hunting one of those farms and didn't shoot a coyote if I had the chance, the farmer wouldn't be very happy about it.

 

For those of you that think it is wrong to kill something you aren't going to eat; what do you do when you are fishing and catch a goby? Deep fried or just lightly battered?

[Kilka]

Cram,

 

You are wrong on so many points about wolves. They DO hunt in packs, but they DO NOT organise ambushes. In fact, there is little planned cooperation when they bring down an animal. So before you make sweeping statements, at least get educated.

 

Here's a wiki page to get you started:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_Wolf

 

Your emotional/intelligent argument is also out of place. You don't know what an animal thinks or feels, and there are rarely correct ways to rank intelligence. Wolves have a seemingly complicated pack life, but you don't know what that is based on. Ants seemingly have an even more comlicated community life than wolves, a life that even humans would have difficulty organising. Is an ant smarter than you?

[CLofchik]

Comparing wolves to yotes is like comparing muskies to pike (or gobies).

Darn it, I hate when the lakes I fish get muskie in them and they just overpopulate thinning everything else out. Yeah, I see that alot.

 

How many happy smiley faces would there be here if somebody dragged a 40lb muskie back to the dock for camp scale glory shots?

After all there's a limit, they must be sustainable right?

[dave524]

This division in the ranks of sportsmen reminds me of this poem

 

" First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me."

 

Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)

 

First they come for the fur hunters, then the fur trappers, then all hunting , then catch and release angling

 

Tighten ranks gentlemen or we are all at risk.

[ch312]

How many happy smiley faces would there be here if somebody dragged a 40lb muskie back to the dock for camp scale glory shots?

After all there's a limit, they must be sustainable right?

 

id be one of the people smiling and asking the fisherman how the fight was and what he was doing to catch the fish. i would be happy for him and not rain down on his parade at all. it is a fish that is legal to harvest if you choose so theres no reason to look down on others for their legal actions.

 

in BC it is legal for them to shoot a grizzly bear and leave all of the meat in the bush. i am totally against wasting meat, but those hunters who choose to do this are within their rights to do so. i'd also hold back any comments i had for the hunters because what they had done would be 100% legal.

 

if there is an open season for the fish or animal you are pursuing, then the biologists for that area must have determined that the populations can handle a controlled harvest.

 

 

 

btw...how old are you people? young teens are the only ones who would refer to soy foods as being "faggoty"

[Cookslav]

I don't blame anyone for hunting wolves...it is legal. But, i do think it should be illegal.

Until the Deer and Moose, beaver and rabbit populations begin to thin and the Wolves overpopulate begining natures "humane" way thinning...by endureing disease, and starvation....

You quickly forget that by making one species untouchable the others all suffer as well.

Its about BALANCE...a healthy and MAINTAINED wolf population in accordance with what is needed to keep the other animals in check is benefical to all species including the wolf.

Don't forget this kind of thing is managaged per WMU in Ontario...its not all willy nilly so there are areas where there is no open hunting season on wolves.

Its only open in areas that require it as part of the conservation plan for that WMU

 

QUOTE (ch312 @ Feb 26 2010, 12:24 AM) *

whaling was not stopped because they are "smart" animals. it was stopped because the populations sank off the charts due to over harvesting and not having proper regulations in the past...

 

 

Exactly.

 

But, don't you think if it were open for debate today most people on this site would be against it?

No...just all the Inuit

Guy...give your head a shake

If fishing was up for debate to the Public don't you think most people would be against it?

One opportunity lost will turn into another...when you support the removall of a hunt based on ethics....

You better beleive a cancelation of fishing is just down the road.

The spring bear hunt was canceled because of tree hugging manality and not science...end its never comming back despite the issues its causing.

You need to get on side with supporting a Legal hunt, and allow the MNR to decide whats legal.

 

Wolves collaborate in groups....not in a mob like a pack of fish. They set up pre-determined ambush points....with some members of the pack driving the prey towards it. They are far more intelligent than the ungulates that they (and we) eat. And they are a billion times more intelligent than a fish.

 

Wolves are intelligent, social animals

 

So you value life based on intellegance...Thas a dangerous road to travel...

So I suppose Deer are just dumb animals with no social structure so its ok to hunt them?...you've never read about or hunter deer I see.

I guess eating Pork is out as well eh?

 

I'd hate to hear your take on Mentally challanged people as equals....

 

How many years has it been since wolf howl gatherings in Algonquin have actually heard wolves?

I don't know what the answer to that is but I've personally seen tracks and kills almost yearly since I have been going.

And heard howls every couple of years inbetween.

The Wolf population of Algonquin is very strong?

You can't hunt them in the park and recently the MNR canceled the hunt in 3 townships in the round lake area based on sceintific study.

The wolves were leaving the park in this areas to feed in the deer yards located in those areas, and some wolves were being harvested once they left the park.

But have no fear Algonquin Wolf numbers are doing just fine, and there is little concern about the current balance.

The bigger concern at this point is conserving the Eastern Wolf genes as pure....Grey wolf and Coyotes genes are interbreeding.

 

How many happy smiley faces would there be here if somebody dragged a 40lb muskie back to the dock for camp scale glory shots?

After all there's a limit, they must be sustainable right?

It would probobly be the same people here today debating the ethics of it LOL...

 

If hunting Wolves is not you're thing...great thats cool, I got not issue with it.

But when people are suggesting it should be illegal based on "their" ethics, and want to shoot me for doing it....there I have an issue.

[solopaddler]

I don't hunt but certainly wouldn't begrudge anyone the right, regardless of species assuming it's legal.

 

What gets me is the attitude of so many uninformed citified sportsmen. Most of whom don't have a clue what they're talking about.

 

Regarding wolves, while I've never hunted them, I have lived in the bush for months on end and have had numerous encounters.

 

Media paints a vastly different picture of the wolf than what the actual reality is.

 

If you want to vilify someone for shooting one I'd suggest you join a group of like minded individuals like p eta.

 

I can tell you I'd have blasted more than my fair share over the years if I carried a firearm.

 

Regarding the size of the wolves in the picture I've seen animals that size in the interior of Pukaskwa National park.

Pretty much the size of a deer, just unreal.