dave524 Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Im not so sure who is missing the point.... All animals eh?!.....how about horse racing...dog racing....horse riding....dog sledding. Just to name a few for our enjoyment....lol Not my thing but I sure wouldn't try and tell the ones who enjoy it to stop! Hell we just shouldn't have pets...lmao Not many use fishing to stroke their ego but if a few do..so what! Using an animal for a plaything... ...well...I'm not sure about you but I'm pretty sure most do not use animals as "play things"....and the ones who do end up in rehab....lol These P3TA ideals are for people who just can't get passed the fact that we are human and thankfully on top of the food chain. Horse racing etc. believe me they are working on those plaything , stroke your ego ? if you not fishing for food, just why are you fishing ? enjoy the peace and solitude? why bring a fishing rod? just as peaceful without Yes we are at the top of the food chain and the new p3ta thrust at our fishing tradition acknowledges that with their policy on catch and keep I don't represent them or their thinking, but I am pointing out the arguments and logic they are using, I've hunted 45 years and fished over 50, didn't get married till age 49 cause I was too busy hunting and fishing, probably caught or killed more game than most, only the messenger of their side of the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocoda Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 All living creatures have a fight or flight reaction. In most fish there isn't much to fight with so it's a more basic flight thing I guess. The stress we hear about in played fish is a physical trauma, not an emotional one. It's different to the stress usually experienced by higher life forms like us humans. I doubt fish have the brain capacity to experience much in the way of emotion. They basically only know to breed when it's time, guard the eggs in their time, eat, and run from a threat. Kids cartoons have given us a distorted sense of what emotions and awareness animals are capable of. It's doubtful in the real world Bambi would have really grieved over his mom much. In fact he probably would have sniffed around a bit and then got on with the business of trying to survive. He'd the food and warmth. JF just to throw this out there ....a deers brain is considerably larger then a swan...ive been taught that they mourn for the rest of their lives at the lose of a mate...... some tree huggers suggest a tree feels pain when its tampered with or cut down....there are tree doctors but no tree neuroligists ....it is a life form with no abilities to fight or flight....how can it feel anything? with the exception of a weeping willow IMHO i tend to sit on the side of the fence....if it has a functioning brain ...it feels pain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gbfisher Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 plaything , stroke your ego ? if you not fishing for food, just why are you fishing ? enjoy the peace and solitude? why bring a fishing rod? just as peaceful without . We save some. We even protect some but we eat more. All by 'our choice'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBR Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Let's see. The Province of Ontario, all of the states in the U.S., and all other fishing organizations known to me encourage C&R. She is not an authority on fish. Fish don't have the mental capacity to know fear or relate to it like humans or more advanced animals. Her position on C&R is her opinion not backed up by scientific study. Do a search for scientific studies on the subject and read more. I believe one study was done by a professor at the UIniversity of Wyoming in the states. You should be able to find considerable information on the subject. Rember that studies financed by special interests tend to be skewed towardsw the beliefs of the financier. Don't get or present so much informationas as to embarass her. Not good for your relationship! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemicropterus Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Thanks to the good natured animal rights activists C&R is now BANNED in Germany and many other European countries are thinking of following suit. Maybe your teacher is European. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cram Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 (edited) if the OP is looking for ammo.... - fish have the simplest brains of all vertebrates - most of their "processing" happens in the brain stem, whereas ours happens in the actual brain (frontal lobe? neocortex? I forget). - they are incapable of pain and emotions the way we experience them. Most of their reactions are instinctive. That's all you need to know. That said, the teacher shouldn't be villified and burned at the stake. There are a LOT of people in the world who share her views. Edited February 13, 2010 by cram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 That said, the teacher shouldn't be villified and burned at the stake. There are a LOT of people in the world who share her views. Teachers are entrusted with our childrens' minds during the formative years, and what can be more important than that? Don't they have an obligation to use discretion in teaching contentious beliefs? If my kids weren't allowed to be exposed to Christianity during their public school years I sure wouldn't have wanted to hear that the teachers were preaching personal lifestyle beliefs that differed from what was taught in our home. Frankly I'd like to see more of them put a bit more effort into spelling and grammar and forget about preaching personal biases. But that's my own personal bias. JF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cram Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Teachers are entrusted with our childrens' minds during the formative years, and what can be more important than that? Don't they have an obligation to use discretion in teaching contentious beliefs? If my kids weren't allowed to be exposed to Christianity during their public school years I sure wouldn't have wanted to hear that the teachers were preaching personal lifestyle beliefs that differed from what was taught in our home. Frankly I'd like to see more of them put a bit more effort into spelling and grammar and forget about preaching personal biases. But that's my own personal bias. JF Some stuff to think about.... - do you know that the teacher was standing at the front of the class "teaching" this, vs. stating a personal opinion to a student in a side discussion? Doesn't make it right, but there's a big difference. - if she had said that bull fighting is cruel....would it be as controversial? - "teachers" are one of those disciplines where they all get lumped together based on the wrongs of a few. Its funny how many on this site villified anyone who made comments about autoworkers because of a few people (just because some of us take advantage of the union Bull, don't paint us all with the same brush!!)...yet we do it to teachers. I don't get that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Some stuff to think about....- do you know that the teacher was standing at the front of the class "teaching" this, vs. stating a personal opinion to a student in a side discussion? Doesn't make it right, but there's a big difference. - if she had said that bull fighting is cruel....would it be as controversial? Does it matter where a teacher tries to impose personal biases on their students? Presumably they still have a certain amount of influence, even out of school. As long as we're what-iffing - what if the teacher who criticized bullfighting was teaching in Seville? Often the location determines what's appropriate. I wonder how many teachers speak out against the seal hunt in NL? JF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLofchik Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Resistance is futile... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRIFTER_016 Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 The scary thing is this is how it starts...animal activist groups love these opinions....first you ban catch and release, because it is cruel...than you go for a complete ban on sportfishing. Rulings like the ones in europe start to set precedent...God forbid it EVER happens here!!!!!! Shouldn't happen here. The right to fish and hunt is written into the constitution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Resistance is futile... Reminds me of my son's grade 2 teacher who argued with me at student/teacher night when I pointed out that she had spelled "mountainious" and "Kamel" wrong in some nifty graphics she'd put up on the wall as a learning aid for the students. I was polite about it - at first. JF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLofchik Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Reminds me of my son's grade 2 teacher who argued with me at student/teacher night when I pointed out that she had spelled "mountainious" and "Kamel" wrong in some nifty graphics she'd put up on the wall as a learning aid for the students. I was polite about it - at first. JF My time as an inmate of public secondary school helped me form the opinion that teaching is something you fall into when you finish your first four years of university and don't have a clue which direction you want to go in life. Very little since has dissuaded me from that standpoint, including having two teachers marry into the family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 My time as an inmate of public secondary school helped me form the opinion that teaching is something you fall into when you finish your first four years of university and don't have a clue which direction you want to go in life. Very little since has dissuaded me from that standpoint, including having two teachers marry into the family. I came within a hair of teaching kids. I did become a teacher a few years ago, but with adult students. I have known some really dedicated teachers for whom I had bags of respect. On the other hand I've known some real twits who somehow became teachers. I guess teaching is just like any other profession. Not everyone hits a home run. JF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cram Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 My time as an inmate of public secondary school helped me form the opinion that teaching is something you fall into when you finish your first four years of university and don't have a clue which direction you want to go in life. Very little since has dissuaded me from that standpoint, including having two teachers marry into the family. We should pay teachers way more and make it a more desirable profession -- attract better people. I know lots of very smart people who would have gone into teaching if it didn't pay peanuts. (the pay is actually very good in some communities, and absolutely horrid in others....depends on your cost of living, i guess) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThisPlaceSucks Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 teachers are good and bad like all people. i had some that made me hate being at school, while i had some that inspired me to succeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dara Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 We should pay teachers way more and make it a more desirable profession -- attract better people. I know lots of very smart people who would have gone into teaching if it didn't pay peanuts. (the pay is actually very good in some communities, and absolutely horrid in others....depends on your cost of living, i guess) We pay them PLENTY in this community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigugli Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 (edited) Catch and release is bad for my diet of fish and chips Even then, I certainly release a heck of a lot more than I keep. Edited February 14, 2010 by bigugli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cram Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 We pay them PLENTY in this community. I lived in toronto for years....friends who were single teachers couldn't afford to live in (or near) the communities they taught in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dara Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 I lived in toronto for years....friends who were single teachers couldn't afford to live in (or near) the communities they taught in. Then they can move away. Everybody has to live in Toronto but nobody can afford it. Doesn't make sense to me what with the size of Canada and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 I lived in toronto for years....friends who were single teachers couldn't afford to live in (or near) the communities they taught in. well 90k a year for 6hrs a day 9 months a year..that sounds like pretty good pay to me..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cram Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 well 90k a year for 6hrs a day 9 months a year..that sounds like pretty good pay to me..... I would bet the average salary of my friends is around that #, but my 30-34 yr old teacher friends make 50-60. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammercarp Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 About twenty years ago when the current hot topic was animals being used for medical research. I watched, on the CBC, a debate about that topic. I was between four professional adults and four students at an all boys private school. When adults in their 30's and 40's debate school kids it is a not a debate. It is straight indoctrination. You can guess who were the animal rights debate team. What is amazing is how tolerant we are when these people wrap themselves in their holier than thow cloaks and screw with other peoples childrens heads for their self appointed self righteous satisfaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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