(NF)...Brake Problems

[BillM]

If it was your MC, you'd have problems with both the fronts and the back What usually happens is the seals inside the MC fail, which results in a soft pedal and the ability to push the pedal to the floor with constant pressure.

 

After thinking about it, Bernie is exactly right. If the fluid line did have a crack there would be brake fluid all over the place and you'd lose all your brakes entirely in just a few short stops

 

Any chance you can put some weight in the bed (couple hundred pounds) and see if the problem persists?

[Bernie]

If it is happening all the time Terry I would verify proper pressure to the rear brakes and wheel cylinders not seized or wrong size. This is where the pain in the butt ABS comes into play. Keep in mind the system "may" be working normally and it actually is preventing your rear wheels from locking up. If the speed sensor detects wheel lockup it is designed to release brake pressure to allow your rear wheels to rotate without locking to maintain directional control.

On a personal note I think 4 wheel ABS systems have improved to the point it should be mandatory to install in all new cars. They do work now. I know there will be those that disagree with me and I also used say they were not as good as a driver could apply. But now most systems are much faster and more responsive than anyone could outdo manually.

But these 2 wheel systems suck and should never have been used.

[walleyemen]

G.m had a simialr problem in the early 90's, and they added a booster to solve the problem, my 1990 rear brakes never worked from new drums rusted and shoes swelled up from lack of use, it was this way till i purchased my 1999 and they took my other truck as a trade in, luckly my buddy bought it and that's when they added the booster, the booster was secondary after the master and only hooked to the rear brake lines, most trucks now have this booster is it maybe the booster failing and not appling proper pressure to the rear brakes, spinning the tires on a hoist and aplling brakes would make them stop but under load not so much, if the a.b.s is not working it should throw and store a code regardless, and if it did fail you should have maual brakes, unless there is bad wiring for the a.b.s and the moister causes it to malfunction, but then again it should throw a code. I got to research this some, got me wondering now, feel your pain about mida, had a simialr problem with canadian tire , ended up having to go in to the shop with the mechanic and show him what to do, very frustrating, i,m a mechanic by trade , heavy trucks, usually do all my own work , but this was last winter when i had knee surjury and could'nt do it myself.Just my too cents worth , sounds like a pressure problem or maybe a blockage even, hard to tell.

Wayne

[Jer]

Hi Terry,

 

I have much the same truck (2001 Dakota, 4x4, 3.9L, rear wheel ABS) with much the same problem. Front wheels like to lock up on hard braking on loose or slippery road surface.

 

All my brakes are new, had it back to the shop in the summer to see if he could figger what was up. The mechanic agreed that the front seems to lock up too easily but couldn't find any obvious problem. He scuffed and adjusted the rear shoes to grab as much as possible and this did seem to help, but it's still not right. Luckily it wasn't Midas, and he only billed me for 1/2 hour labour (rear brake service) even though he played around with it for over an hour.

 

He suggested it could be the proportioning valve not sending enough pressure to the rear but also suggested new tires before I replace the valve. My tires are quite worn and could be causing the front to lock-up prematurely. If the problem persists with new rubber, I'll have the valve replaced.

 

I've only really noticed a problem with the truck empty. With some weight in the back or the boat behind me, everything stops just fine.

 

I see your truck is 2WD. I've found my truck has always had much better braking control when in 4WD.

 

A few years ago, I had a front caliper seize up on me and found that both my rear wheel cylinders were also seized and I had no back brakes at all. Everything was replaced at that time (calipers, rotors, wheel cylinders, pads and shoes) to the tune of almost $1500. At the time, we chalked it up to "driveway rust" as the truck sits for weeks at a time and I only put about 5000 km a year on it. Now I'm not so sure and wonder if there is some inherent problem with the back braking system on the Dakotas.

 

I'd be very interested to hear what you find it to be.

[lew]

Terry, I bought a new Dakota in 2001 and then found this site that is strictly dedicated to the trucks and has some good info on them.

 

Might be a good spot to look around or ask questions and see if your problem is inherant to the Dak's.

 

http://www.dodgedakotas.com

[Headhunter]

Terry, you could try driving backwards everywhere!!!! Sorry I can't help, I can see that your in good hands!

HH

[dannyboy]

Terry:

Sounds like you have rear wheel ABS, rear brakes on pickup trucks can't do much without some weight in the back. The front brakes lock as they don't have ABS and the rear brakes don't lock as they have ABS circuit.

 

Master cylinders generally have two separate two circuits and link front left to rear right tire and front right to rear left so that is probably not your problem.

The engineering difficulty comes with matching front to rear brakes; this is where proportioning valves and boosters come in.

 

It seems your problem might be that your front brakes are grabbing too soon before the back brakes can actuate, if the rear brakes have been adjusted correctly and the brake fluid drained, replaced, and bled in the last 4 years, I would try better quality pads on the front brakes (metallic or ceramic) after that the proportioning valve.

 

Dan

[Bernie]

We have discussed your problem here at the shop Terry and we feel its pressure is being limited in some manner to the rear. On the rear end there is a valve that is connected to you rear axle with a lever. The more of a load you have in the bed of your truck the more it opens the valve to allow more pressure to the wheel cylinders (more weight-more traction). It's possible the valve is stuck internally, we have replaced more than one of these for this problem.

 

Master cylinders generally have two separate two circuits and link front left to rear right tire and front right to rear left so that is probably not your problem.

The engineering difficulty comes with matching front to rear brakes; this is where proportioning valves and boosters come in.

 

Dan

Dan it's true they are split into two sides. But this one is split front/rear. Most domestic pickups are still plumbed this way

[Bernie]

I talk to a Midas tell them my story…tell them don’t check the brakes..check abs and master cylinder……yup no problem…

 

I take a day off work drop it off they write down what I want

 

And hour and a half later they call me…I need work on my front brakes back brakes are fine but could use service,,,(whatever that means) abs is fine no problems show on the puter…….oh and my wheel bearings are loose…

I Say but the back brakes don’t work..they don’t stop me…..

So I say forget it don’t do any work

 

They charge me for an inspection I didn’t want and ask not to do……

Over a 100 bucks……

And they rewrote the work order on computer and it stated that I asked to check why front brakes were locking up……what a rip off IMO

 

Midas Bradford will never see me again…………..

 

Re reading your original post I see you were ripped off. You do not need to pay any charges you did not authorize.

Edited October 8, 2008 by Bernie

[ecmilley]

I was thinking it was the load valve as well (if it has one)

[The Urban Fisherman]

Don't know a mechanic near you terry but if it makes you feel any better I spent $1200 having new breaks rotors etc.etc. put on my mother-in-laws car (which I was driving at the time) 1 year ago and they're all shot again!?!?!?!?!?! what the hell man.....

 

Good luck and we feel your pain!

 

Cheers,

UF

[Tybo]

1200 for a brake job on a car. What are the pads made of,Gold.

 

I do my own on the truck. use high carbon rotors and porcelain pads.

this is what I pay for in parts and this is the highest grade stuff you can get.

 

How much is the hourly rate for a garage now days.

[Terry]

well they charged me 100 bucks for an hours work..and yes for work I didn't want...stupid me I didn't take a copy of the work I requested

and when I returned they had a computer generated bill/ work order..which did not have what I requested......stupid me...

 

 

I removed the wires to the ABS and that did seem to give me maybe 20/30 % more back braking..but still not enough..

 

 

is there a way they test to see if the brake fluid pressure is enough to work the back shoes enough..

 

 

oh and thanks for the help everyone it sure helps me figure this out

[dannyboy]

Without a signed work order they can't charge you for work you didn't authorise, but since they have your money you would have to take legal action to get it back - not worth the time or aggravation.

 

If you have rear wheel ABS and pulling the breaker made a difference it sounds like the ABS is not working correctly.

As for testing pressure you would also need to check flow volume also, not sure if this is a standard test.

Open a bleeder valve to bleed some fluid on one of the rear brakes with someone applying brake pressure and check the condition of the brake fluid.

Changing brake fluid every two years is the best preventative maintenance for the system - but most mechanics can't be bothered. The alcohol in brake fluid absorbs water over time and corrodes the components.

 

Dan