just busted a whole tournament?

[John Bacon]

1 hour ago, AKRISONER said:

Livewell – A livewell is a compartment designed to keep fish alive. For a livewell to be used to selectively release Bass, Walleye and Northern Pike, it must be attached to or form part of a boat, hold a total volume of not less than 46 litres (10 gallons) of water, have the capacity for water exchange and be mechanically aerated at all times when live fish are being held in it (see Ontario’s Catch and Retain Rules, page 9).

if you selectively are releasing fish, your livewell must meet the requirement outlined in the regulation.

Regulations:
"Generally, daily catch limits include all fish that are retained for any period of time and not immediately released.
Anglers fishing from a boat may catch, hold, and selectively live release more Walleye, Northern Pike, Largemouth or Smallmouth Bass than the daily limit, provided:
(a) the fish are held in a livewell with a mechanical aerator operating at all times (see Angler’s Guide, page 8, for livewell requirements),"
 

But if you read the whole regulations you can see that having a conforming livewell allows you to retain more fish than your daily limit.  Fish that are placed in a livewell and later released are considered to be retained and count towards your daily limit.  However, they make an exception and allow you to retain more than your daily limit provided you have a livewell that meets specified requirements.

If your livewell does not meet the specified requirements, it is still legal to retain and later release a fish.  However, that fish counts towards your daily limit.  So you are limited in the number if fish that you can cull during the day.

If they are only putting one fish in the livewell, they can legally upgrade that fish five times through-out the day.   Replacing your fish with a bigger one a sixth time in one day would be illegal because that would be considered your seventh fish retained that day.  If you have a conforming livewell then there is no limit to how many times that you can upgrade your fish.

The laws concerning selecting releasing of fish were added within the last 10-15 years.  Prior to that, tournament anglers were breaking the law by over culling their fish.

 

[Fish_for_fun]

FYI. NOT BUSTED. Get your facts straight before bad mouthing a reputable marina and association. Good afternoon all. We are the host marina for the particular area angler’s association bass derby the fellow is speaking of. He spoke to the marina owner yesterday and the fellow was advised of the Transport rules. Obviously he did not agree with the interpretation of the regulations that the owner relayed to him. Perhaps he should have asked the MNR before posting and tarnishing a small town derby. I have double checked the regulations as I have just spoken to the the local Ontario MNR fisheries person in Parry Sound (Steve). I wanted to verify the regulations regarding live release in relation to the bass derby. He assures me the that as long as the entered fish is within the angler’s daily limited it does not need to be in a live well. There are regulations when transportation of the fish over land, but the derby stipulates the fish must be caught on local area of Georgian Bay and no inland bodies of water. The event has been running for more that 30 years. The anglers’ association takes precautions with handling of the fish for weigh in. The fish is placed in a large holding net in the water to be sure will survive prior to release.  If it will not survive the fish is cleaned and eaten.  According to the MNR the derby entrant only need to be sure he/she is not over his/her daily limit. On Georgian Bay that is 3 smallmouth bass if sport fisherman or 1 if having a conservation licence. following the rules   He should have contacted us prior to this post so we could have nipped in the bud.-Save you all the aggravation of weighing in.   Have a great day! ?. 

[AKRISONER]

just to be clear...i dont think anyone here badmouthed the marina? I apologize if it was interpreted as an attack on your business. In fact I made it very clear during my conversation with the owner that the organizer would not be the person responsible for the transportation of the fish, that would be on the boater participating. The thread title is in the form of a question. It could be interpreted as negative, however it provides the opportunity for everyone to ensure that due dillegence is being performed by everyone involved. I dont believe any business or individual is free from scrutiny, and i can assure you that I brought the question to this forum to ask what the members here thought.

In hindsight I guess the best course of action would have been to contact to the MNR directly? I thought that would have been a much more extreme measure then asking a question on a forum. I take full responsibility for being wrong if that is the case.

I will reiterate that no interpretation of the rules were ever disagreed upon between the owner and I aside from me asking how individuals without livewells were able to participate, since my understanding was that in order to transport live fish required a properly circulated livewell as outlined in the fishing regulations. I brought that interpretation to the attention of the owner and he thanked me for the information.

I am glad that due diligence was executed by the organizer to ensure that the stipulations outlined in the regulations are met.

Edited April 17, 2018 by AKRISONER

[Old Ironmaker]

I have been involved in more than a few neighbourhood tourneys. All fun get togethers for some that fish a few times a year. Often there were what could be deemed flagrant fouls of the Regs. When I see something like not consuming fish that are belly up I just point it out to the organizer in a non combative manner. People don't know what they don't know until they know, man I sound like Yogi Berra, (you young guys should Google him if you have never heard of him, you will have a good laugh.)

Education is the best tool we have to explain to those that simply aren't aware of something, not just fishing regs. There are several regs in the book that you need a Bay Street Lawyer to fully understand clearly. Many regs. and laws are crystal clear and many are not. That's why  in a county of less than 50,000 citizens here we have a full Yellow Page of Lawyers phone numbers when there was such a thing as a phone book.

Akrisoner did absolutely nothing wrong. He educated someone that simply didn't know any better and I am sure the organizer was thankful he did, simple as that. I am sure a C.O. would have given a warning rather than a fine. To break a law there is something called intent.

[chris.brock]

41 minutes ago, Old Ironmaker said:

. He educated someone that simply didn't know any better and I am sure the organizer was thankful he did, simple as that. 

read above, maybe you missed it, the organizer chimed in, and he wasn't really all that thankful, lol

[Old Ironmaker]

I missed it Chris, thanks. Sometimes I get worked up and post without reading through all the posts. Latin blood.

[AKRISONER]

Funny enough I reached out to my friend who is a retired CO and he just got back to me.

This was his reply

“Hey Scott, your take on it is right . If the purpose is to high grade your catch as in any derby I’ve  ever been part of u need an aerated live well with the capability of water exchange.  Catch and release is immediately release. Like any derby, the plan is to keep the biggest fish which means u will be catching......retaining...... and then possibly releasing that fish if u catch a bigger one. For that u need a live well. Hope that makes sense.”

Sooooo...maybe it’s not so clear?

[John Bacon]

6 minutes ago, AKRISONER said:

Funny enough I reached out to my friend who is a retired CO and he just got back to me.

This was his reply

“Hey Scott, your take on it is right . If the purpose is to high grade your catch as in any derby I’ve  ever been part of u need an aerated live well with the capability of water exchange.  Catch and release is immediately release. Like any derby, the plan is to keep the biggest fish which means u will be catching......retaining...... and then possibly releasing that fish if u catch a bigger one. For that u need a live well. Hope that makes sense.”

Sooooo...maybe it’s not so clear?

What exactly did you ask him?

As previously explained, without a livewell that meets the required specifications, all of the fish that you retain will count towards your daily limit. 

It is perfectly legal for someone to bring in a live fish to weighed and released (assuming that it is still healthy).    However, that fish counts towards their daily limit even though it has been released.

If they have a cooler full of water.  They can put a fish in the cooler, replace it with a bigger one, and then weigh the second fish in for the derby.  But that would count as two fish towards their daily limit.

If they keep upgrading their fish, they will eventually exceed their daily limit.  So there is a potential for them to break the law.  Where as a person with a conforming livewell does not have any limit to the number of times that they can upgrade their catch.

So there is a potential for someone to exceed their limit if they continually upgrade their catch, they are not automatically in breach of the law by participating in the derby without a conforming livewell.  A person keeping a single fish in a cooler full of water would be limited to upgrading their catch five times in one day.  A person without a livewell who was fishing close enough to the weigh in station to rush their fish in with a livewell could legally enter up to six fish in one day.

I think it is pretty clear.  
 

[aplumma]

Lets keep this to facts without the slams please. So far we have heard from the Person who is holding the contest and he appears to have all of his "I"s dotted and "T"s crossed. I am happy to see that people are taking the time and effort to improve the fisheries. Please respect the rules here and this thread will be kept open. 

Thanks

 

Art

[grimsbylander]

For the love of god bring us a heat wave.

[knightfisher]

4 hours ago, AKRISONER said:

Funny enough I reached out to my friend who is a retired CO and he just got back to me.

This was his reply

“Hey Scott, your take on it is right . If the purpose is to high grade your catch as in any derby I’ve  ever been part of u need an aerated live well with the capability of water exchange.  Catch and release is immediately release. Like any derby, the plan is to keep the biggest fish which means u will be catching......retaining...... and then possibly releasing that fish if u catch a bigger one. For that u need a live well. Hope that makes sense.”

Sooooo...maybe it’s not so clear?

Hahaha some people just have to be right hahaha

[misfish]

10 hours ago, grimsbylander said:

For the love of god bring us a heat wave.

I do not need a heat wave,I need to get on my toon. I am so desperate, I might ride the Niagara. 

[bobowski]

12 hours ago, grimsbylander said:

For the love of god bring us a heat wave.

[AKRISONER]

john thanks for posting it in plain english, I totally understand what you are describing now even if I am a little slow.

12 hours ago, grimsbylander said:

For the love of god bring us a heat wave.

You are telling me.

[Tom S]

4 hours ago, misfish said:

I do not need a heat wave,I need to get on my toon. I am so desperate, I might ride the Niagara. 

Be sure to have the Go-Pro strapped on if you do! You'll be an internet celebrity! 

[Lape0019]

Well, I read through that and it was entertaining to say the least.

IMO, there was nothing done wrong here at all. I may have posted something similar myself but probably would have named it something a little more different and maybe left the general area of the tournament out of the equation.

My interpretation is however fairly similar to John's. There is no ill intent and provided the anglers realise that without a working live well, they are limited to only catching as many as the daily limit stipulates for that zone. Is it the best scenario for a big fish tournament? I don't think so but I also do not believe the people holding the tournament are at fault. Most tournaments state that all regs and boating safety rules need to be followed so there really isn't anything more they can do unless they change the tournament to a only allow boats with livewells.

[thalweg]

On 2018-04-16 at 11:34 AM, AKRISONER said:

 

On 2018-04-16 at 11:34 AM, AKRISONER said:

You seem to have a lot of time on your hands to be so concerned about a minor technicality with what seems like a fun little derby that folks enjoy.  Your language "promoting the illegal transport". "Busting a whole tournament" strongly suggests that you should seek fulfilling diversion outside of fishing.  What a crock.

 

So last fall I became aware of a fishing derby up in Byng Inlet that I took some interest in participating in this summer. Its called the "annual byng inlet whites marina bass derby"

I thought that it would be a pretty fun event to participate in and asked for some general information about the tournament. The organizer reached out to clarify for me that the tournament is a winner take all big fish tournament...and specifically mentioned that it cant be a 5 fish tournament because not everyone has livewells...then i realized, oh crap...These guys are promoting the illegal transport of fish for their tournament...ugh. I know its totally uninentional because they even specifically say its a "live release tournament, and that all fish must be returned alive" I think they missed the technicalities....

Having spent a lot of time last year contemplating ways of creating a livewell in my tinner, i know the regulations pretty well. I specifically know that it is illegal to transport fish that are not intended for consumption in an un-circulated cooler or other device. its clearly laid out in the regs. Your livewell that is being used for the purpose of releasing fish must have a 10 gallon capacity and the ability to circulate water.

I took a screen shot of the regulation and forwarded it to the organizer...hmmm whats a guy to do here...