just busted a whole tournament?

[AKRISONER]

So last fall I became aware of a fishing derby up in Byng Inlet that I took some interest in participating in this summer. Its called the "annual byng inlet whites marina bass derby"

I thought that it would be a pretty fun event to participate in and asked for some general information about the tournament. The organizer reached out to clarify for me that the tournament is a winner take all big fish tournament...and specifically mentioned that it cant be a 5 fish tournament because not everyone has livewells...then i realized, oh crap...These guys are promoting the illegal transport of fish for their tournament...ugh. I know its totally uninentional because they even specifically say its a "live release tournament, and that all fish must be returned alive" I think they missed the technicalities....

Having spent a lot of time last year contemplating ways of creating a livewell in my tinner, i know the regulations pretty well. I specifically know that it is illegal to transport fish that are not intended for consumption in an un-circulated cooler or other device. its clearly laid out in the regs. Your livewell that is being used for the purpose of releasing fish must have a 10 gallon capacity and the ability to circulate water.

I took a screen shot of the regulation and forwarded it to the organizer...hmmm whats a guy to do here...

[Sterling]

Sounds like an honest mistake. I'm sure they'll be willing to modify the rules to be compliant. 

[bigugli]

"hmmm whats a guy to do here..."

You do what is right by your conscience, Akrisoner

[porkpie]

https://flow-rite.com/products/marine/aerators/ma-110

 

Perhaps you could offer them a simple and reasonably priced solution rather than "busting them" Mr. Plod.  Please don't stop by our local lake kids live release derby or we'll all be marching off the dock with our hands up, including the 5 year olds with sunfish in sand pails.

Edited April 16, 2018 by porkpie

[AKRISONER]

i spoke with the organizer and he admitted that he wasnt aware. I made him aware of the cooler livewell solution, but i can pretty much guarantee nothing will happen. Technically isnt the onus on the person transporting fish anyways?

I guess my problem is that this is a two staged event, one for the kids which i greatly encourage, but then at the same time there is a legitimate tournament with a top prize of $1,000 and a whole pile of promotion for the guy's business going on.

 

Really if you are an adult in a tournament trying to win $1,000 you should have your chiet in order should you not?

[porkpie]

What I would do if my high moral standards where interfering with my ability to participate in something in good conscience is pretty simple.  I'd mind my business, rather than screwing every other dude with a tin boat and the anticipation of a fun day out with maybe a couple bucks on the line.  People are quick to get up on their moral high horses these days.  Problem is they often ruin things for people who've been quietly enjoying a relatively harmless activity for many years.  Bass are hardy and very plentiful. 

[Stoty]

35 minutes ago, porkpie said:

What I would do if my high moral standards where interfering with my ability to participate in something in good conscience is pretty simple.  I'd mind my business, rather than screwing every other dude with a tin boat and the anticipation of a fun day out with maybe a couple bucks on the line.  People are quick to get up on their moral high horses these days.  Problem is they often ruin things for people who've been quietly enjoying a relatively harmless activity for many years.  Bass are hardy and very plentiful. 

I can understand the frustration for sure, but he did the right thing by pointing out (an accidental) illegal activity that was going on. Hopefully the people running & fishing the event can understand why something was said and make the necessary adjustments to adhere to the regs.

But.....Just because Bass are "hardy and plentiful" in your opinion doesn't make an ILLEGAL activity justifiable.  Panfish are extremely plentiful but we have regs/laws/limits for a reason created by people that have one thing in mind... OUR FISHERIES.

This is the problem with the internet/social media. Always haters.

[porkpie]

If by haters you mean people that are fed up with folks that always feel the need to stick their oar in with relatively harmless activities then yes, I am a hater.  Very much so.

[sauce]

In summer time, to keep a fish alive in a cooler for more than say an hour, the water must be aerated. I fish the grand river bass derby every summer. The organizers will not measure your fish if there is any question about its survival. A battery powered aerator costs about $10. And they work good. Probably not ideal for 5 large fish. But a few small ones/ one tank will be kicking good by weigh in time. The killer in a lot of small derbies is temp shock. Fish caught in the morning and kept in an aerated cooler sitting in the sun are fine until you put them back in the lake at the end of the day.

Edited April 16, 2018 by sauce

[John Bacon]

I think you are misinterpreting the regulations (see below).  I don't see where it says that fish put in a non-conforming livewell must be consumed.  I only see that they count towards your daily limit and cannot be released if they are not healthy enough to survive.

If they are only counting the largest fish, then there would be little if any culling; so they should be okay.

A conforming livewell is required in order to "selectively release" (i.e. cull your fish) without the culled fish counting towards your daily limit.  If your livewell does not meet the stated requirements, then any fish that you put in the livewell will count towards your daily limit regardless of whether or not it is released later in the day.  As long as they don't put a seventh fish in the livewell that day then they will still be okay.  That is a seventh fish for the day; not at one time.  Once you put your first fish in the livewell, you can upgrade it five times.  After than any fish you catch must be immediately released.  If it's bigger than the one that's in your livewell, too bad.  I don't think that many anglers would have to upgrade more than five times in a day.

Now, if it was a fish limit, that would be different.  Culling with five fish in the well would put you over the limit if you don't have a livewell that meets the stated requirements.
 

Regulation
"Livewell – A livewell is a compartment designed to keep fish alive. For a livewell to be used to selectively release Bass, Walleye and Northern Pike, it must be attached to or form part of a boat, hold a total volume of not less than 46 litres (10 gallons) of water, have the capacity for water exchange and be mechanically aerated at all times when live fish are being held in it (see Ontario’s Catch and Retain Rules, page 9). Remember, live fish may not be transported overland without a permit. Livewells should be drained before leaving a waterbody."

Additional Regulations
"Generally, daily catch limits include all fish that are retained for any period of time and not immediately released.
Anglers fishing from a boat may catch, hold, and selectively live release more Walleye, Northern Pike, Largemouth or Smallmouth Bass than the daily limit, provided:
(a) the fish are held in a livewell with a mechanical aerator operating at all times (see Angler’s Guide, page 8, for livewell requirements),
(b) the fish comply with any applicable size limits,
(c) the Sport or Conservation Fishing Licence daily catch and retain limits for Walleye or Northern Pike are not exceeded at any one time,
(d) no more than six Largemouth or Smallmouth Bass (or any combination) are retained at any one time for fish caught under a Sport Fishing Licence, or,
(e) the Conservation Fishing Licence catch and retain limits for Largemouth and Smallmouth Bass (or any combination) are not exceeded at any one time for fish caught under a Conservation Fishing Licence.
Anglers are reminded to closely monitor the condition of fish held in a livewell. Only fish that are in such a condition that they will survive may be released. Releasing a fish that will not survive and allowing the flesh of that fish to be wasted is an offence. Any fish not live- released are part of your catch limit and your possession limit.

Edited April 17, 2018 by John Bacon

[chris.brock]

it's a fun, small town tournament, I'm with porkpie, I wouldn't even consider what you're suggesting, there's far bigger bad fishing stuff to crusade against, JMO

[AKRISONER]

3 hours ago, darkwater said:

First of all you should have contacted the irganizer before you posted this thread

 

Next time...before you write a post...you should read the original post. 

"I took a screen shot of the regulation and forwarded it to the organizer"

I hope you don't start a tournament if your intention is to break the rules. Trust me, id never want to fish something that promotes illegal activity. 

Edited April 17, 2018 by AKRISONER

[G.mech]

Just for clarity, what regulation is being broken here if they transport fish in an unapproved livewell?   

[Rod Caster]

Social justice!!! 

Nothing wrong with letting the organizer know about the potential issue, in fact that was very considerate of you; posting it online, not wise and it shines a light on a very minor issue. 

[AKRISONER]

I came here to ask what peoples thoughts were...people are acting like I immediately made a call to the MNR lol. 

I even told the organizer, i commended him for hosting a tournament where kids are encouraged to fish. I simply provided him the regulations and gave him a heads up as the tournament organizer that he most likely wouldnt want to be associated with promoting the illegal transportation of fish should the MNR one day decide to show up at his tournament.

Knowing how the MNR deal with people who break the rules...there is 0 tolerance. As there should be. 

Also if this was just a small group of people doing something fun on a weekend, its a lot different than a business throwing a tournament with a $1000 top prize. Thats bigger money than any of the tournaments ive fished in!

[AKRISONER]

16 minutes ago, darkwater said:

you went about it wrong.....period

you still havent read the original post or my reply to yours lol. Nice

[John Bacon]

1 hour ago, G.mech said:

Just for clarity, what regulation is being broken here if they transport fish in an unapproved livewell?   

None that I can see.

However, there are some limitations.  I.e. no more than five 'upgrades' if you have a single fish; and only healthy fish can be released.

Edited April 17, 2018 by John Bacon

[AKRISONER]

Livewell – A livewell is a compartment designed to keep fish alive. For a livewell to be used to selectively release Bass, Walleye and Northern Pike, it must be attached to or form part of a boat, hold a total volume of not less than 46 litres (10 gallons) of water, have the capacity for water exchange and be mechanically aerated at all times when live fish are being held in it (see Ontario’s Catch and Retain Rules, page 9).

if you selectively are releasing fish, your livewell must meet the requirement outlined in the regulation.

[BillM]

7 minutes ago, darkwater said:

hes fighting to stay afloat now,,,,its what happens when you act before you think...

If you plan on transporting fish in a livewell that are not meant for consumption, that livewell needs to meet certain requirements.     Unless I'm reading something wrong here, lol.

Edited April 17, 2018 by BillM

[BillM]

1 minute ago, darkwater said:

ive said my piece....

Peace.  And you can't run away now..  There's nothing wrong with a debate as long as you boys can keep it civil.  

[AKRISONER]

8 minutes ago, BillM said:

If you plan on transporting fish in a livewell that are not meant for consumption, that livewell needs to meet certain requirements.     Unless I'm reading something wrong here, lol.

lol i never thought that I would make someone so upset with trying to promote people following our published fishing regulations...i guess it tells you a lot about someone hahaha.

[John Bacon]

5 hours ago, BillM said:

If you plan on transporting fish in a livewell that are not meant for consumption, that livewell needs to meet certain requirements.     Unless I'm reading something wrong here, lol.

As previously stated, that's a misinterpretation of the rules.  It's not illegal, but the fish count towards your daily limit.
 

5 hours ago, darkwater said:

Just spoke with a Parry Sound Ontario MNR Fisheries individual. He says for transport on a body of water the only stipulation is the person must be within their daily limit. There is no live well regulation. the fish must be alive to be released. The BBIAA has a net in water to house the fish to make sure they are alive. Any hint that the fish will not survive is cleaned for eating.

 

so instead of READING THE RULES THOROUGHLY,you decided to post on an open,public forum and give the tourney name like a ignorant,selfish person would,now you look really silly and you deserve to be....shame!

It would appear that the MNR agrees with my interpretation.

Edited April 17, 2018 by John Bacon

[BillM]

11 minutes ago, John Bacon said:

As previously stated, that's a misinterpretation of the rules.  It's not illegal, but the fish count towards your daily limit.
 

It would appear that they MNR agrees with my interpretation.

Good info John, although as you know you get a different answer depending on what CO you're talking to      Better safe then sorry if you ask me.

[porkpie]

The only way to get legal interpretations that your can rely on from the MNR is to get emailed correspondence from a district Enforcement Supervisor with respect to your concern. 

[jimmer]

Derbies and tournies live on the edge.  Some say they should be banned outright to solve any problems, issues or complaints.

You guys can get quite confrontational.....