Building a dock..Need advice.

[tb4me]

Hello OFCers how are ya all.?
I want to build a small dock at my trailer in the Trent river..The water can be high and fast at times..The dock i want to build is going to be built and suspended above the water with pipes pounded in the riverbed. I was wondering what type of pipe I can use? Galv is stupid expensive fence posts are too weak in my opinion. I can get 1.9 inch schedule 40 pipe for 26 bucks for 10 feet. This is looking like the best option to me. The wife and I both agree a floating dock is not for us so this is the method were going to go with..Im looking for any advise or pointers as I have never done this before. Perhaps you fine folk can come up with some ideas....

How can I share pics now with this photobucket nonsense ?

[tb4me]

Does this work?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/MCQypeYj6tOfUiFX2

[Old Ironmaker]

The pic works well Ron. When I read your title I read deck not dock. I thought I could help but not for dock. My brother is the dock expert. Are you intending on taking it out every fall? Budget is key to any project. That will tell you what you are going to build. Prices of materials are insane. Yesterday I went to 3 lumber yards out here to find a piece of Oak. A 3/4" X 3" piece of Oak was $3.10 a linear foot plus HST, I told my wife get out your card my dear lady if this is what you want. Over 70 bucks to replace 5 slats on a park type bench. I think I paid 75 bucks for it 25 years ago.

 

Ron look at Drifters thread about his home in the Yukon. A recent post showed what he is doing for his dock. Those cages will last until we and he are long gone. Like I said it's all about budget. The last few docks my Bother built for their and a neighbours were all aluminum. He can remove the 2 main sections by himself and he built the bases with stone boxes or otherwise known as Gambrels. It's not going anywhere in our lifetimes. I saw a episode of that Deck and Dock guy on Canadian HGTV do a few docks. Maybe go to HGTV or You Tube for the shows. I'm not positive about the name of the show but the guy is Canadian for sure.

 

I have to add kid bro is 61 now and says he isn't repairing the old heavy dock every year and replacing it every 15 like he has, plus when it's time to take it out every Oct. all the summer guests aren't around. Look to the future.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Old Ironmaker

[Sinker]

Are you allowed to pound posts into the river bed?

 

why not a floating dock? May be your only option.

 

S.

[Old Ironmaker]

Are you allowed to pound posts into the river bed?

 

why not a floating dock? May be your only option.

 

S.

Something I was thinking, what will they let you build, you have to ask. On my Brothers lake the Ministry of whatever are constantly on the look out for criminal offenders. He isn't allowed to cut the lawn X number of feet from the shoreline. And he needed a building permit to replace the dock that they made him replace because it was pressure treated that contained a ridiculously low level of arsenic. They went around the lake and asked cottage and home owners if their docks contained arsenic, say what? What ever you build it with if you use any wood keep your receipt, MSDS sheet and don't forget to WHIMIS label it.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Old Ironmaker

[OhioFisherman]

I have no idea of what is around your area, some metal reclaiming sites and junk yards here have all different types of " scrap " metal they will sell at not much over scrap prices, one man's trash is an other's treasure?

 

I am not sure what type of wood utility poles are made of, or if it is treated wood, but our local power company had damaged ones they would give away, that could be an option?

[tb4me]

Im sure pounding posts in the river is not an issue..There are 30 docks down stream from me all built the same. As for lumber I was going to use the new pressure treated lumber. I was told it was ok as long as the dock is not going to be in the water. This dock will be14 inches above the water as the gunnel of my boat is at least that high above the water line. We plan to leave at least 2 feet of pipe above the dock surface so it can be loosened off and lifted even higher every fall.I don't plan on taking it out every year.. this is a once and done type dock..I hope to get at least 10 years out of it.. Our one neighbor has a floating dock and I constantly watch him struggle to walk or sit on it.. then when the fall comes he has to beg us friendly neighbors to help him drag it out..I towed it down stream with my boat and used the winch on my trailer to pull it up on the trailer and to high ground..I dont want anything to do with that.
Basically this dock will be 16 feet long and 4 feet wide. I want to be able to sit on it and have a cold brew while fishing and listening to tunes. Oh the life!

[tb4me]

This is the dock I currently use. I have since upgraded boats. The spot in the background with the massive rocks is my spot......Fun eh...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Qd9PT5NFoww5qFMb2

[DRIFTER_016]

How will you be driving the pipe into the river bottom?

How deep will you be driving it into the bottom?

I would recommend the strength of schedule 80 steel pipe 2 1/2"-3" diameter.

Alternatively if you can get your hands on a couple of sections of used steel drill pipe that would work awesome and be relatively inexpensive.

Not sure how easy it would be to find in Ontario but the stuff is everywhere out here.

 

Don't skimp because of cost of the materials or you may regret it down the line.

I've spent good money on my dock and expect it to last longer than me.

 

These guys are in the 905 and have used pipe. https://www.interpipe.com/en/products/secondary-grade-pipe

[tb4me]

How will you be driving the pipe into the river bottom?

How deep will you be driving it into the bottom?

I would recommend the strength of schedule 80 steel pipe 2 1/2"-3" diameter.

Alternatively if you can get your hands on a couple of sections of used steel drill pipe that would work awesome and be relatively inexpensive.

Not sure how easy it would be to find in Ontario but the stuff is everywhere out here.

 

Don't skimp because of cost of the materials or you may regret it down the line.

I've spent good money on my dock and expect it to last longer than me.

 

These guys are in the 905 and have used pipe. https://www.interpipe.com/en/products/secondary-grade-pipe

Whats thicker schedule 40 or schedule 80?

I bought 8 of these things for the dock.

http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/stationary-dock-inside-corner-leg-holder-1-8-in-0792635p.html#srp

 

[DRIFTER_016]

Whats thicker schedule 40 or schedule 80?

I bought 8 of these things for the dock.

http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/stationary-dock-inside-corner-leg-holder-1-8-in-0792635p.html#srp

 

 

Those dock corners work with 2" OD pipe.

Schedule 40 in 2" has a wall thickness of 0.154" or a little over 1/8"

Schedule 80 in 2" has a wall thickness of 0.218" or almost 1/4" and as such is much stronger and will stand up to ice better.

[dave524]

30 years of helping put in a dock , we just had an H frame in the water with maybe 10 inch square feet on the bottom set on the lake bottom, no driving into the lake bed and the other end securely staked to the shore, never a problem. Pull the dock and H frame Thanksgiving weekend and back in May 24. The H frame would telescope to adjust for water levels.

[Big Cliff]

First of all if it's in the Trent system you are probably going to have to get a permit before you can do anything permanent like pounding posts into the bottom. Good luck with that one, they can be hard to deal with at the best of times. I used plates (feet if you will on the bottom of my posts).

 

Second concern would be ice; I lived on Sturgeon Lake for 16 years and saw ice bend 8" I-beams like they were wet pasta. Sch. 80 anchored into the bottom will not stand up to ice hitting it then you have the problem of trying to get it out to replace it.

 

4' wide and you want to sit out there and have a brew? I'd go to 5 or even 6' wide. At 4' you won't have room to walk around your chair to go get a refill. Two people even trying to pass on a 4' dock can be a challenge especially after a few brew.

 

As for decking material, spend the extra money and go with the plastic wood type of decking, it will save you money in the long run.

 

Take those brackets back. They are designed to pinch the post against the wood, there is a better type available from dock supply stores that actually pinches the post against the bracket, it's a bit more money but a far superior system.

 

If you want to PM me your address I'd be happy to come look at what you have to work with and try to give you some ideas, I've built a lot of docks in the past 16 years, made a few mistakes, learned a few lessons

[limeyangler]

I'm building a dock myself(finally)....just saying you might want to check the regs even if others have the same dock you have in mind, simply because they might have built prior to new regs, it's like that on my lake, no crib docks allowed as of ten years ago, so you see lots of crib docks but you can't build new ones. I agree with Big Cliff, if it's rooted to the ground you have to consider ice.

[tb4me]

Awesome guys..Great advice. Im of the opinion that its better to beg forgiveness then to ask permission..Here's the deal.. Its in a trailer park. The park owner says go ahead, or he can build it for me for a fee..Thats good enough for me. All his docks have posts pounded into the ground. .As for ice I have NEVER seen ice here.. never...The beauty part of this spot is it moves year round. From the boat launch all the way up to my dock I could boat year round..So Ice is not going to be an issue. The reason i chose 48 inches is because my old dock was 32 inches..I may actually bump it up to 60 inches but no more then that. My only real concern is water flow in the spring and debris like tree branches. As I had said earlier id be happy to get 10 years out of this dock. The dock i currently use is 12 to 15 ish..and its only 32 inches by 15 feet..So regardless of what I decide to do I have to keep in mind the park owns the land and I could be gone at any point.. Hence the low budget. If this were my land id blow the budget clean out of the water lol

Edited July 30, 2017 by tb4me

[tb4me]

to give you fine folks an good idea this is what im up against.. this spring was about the worst I have seen it in 10 plus years.. This is the 12 to 15 year old dock i currently use (neighbors) they are from Chicago and only come up once or twice a year..lol

https://photos.app.goo.gl/5veMjmqOtygCQRhy1

[DRIFTER_016]

First of all if it's in the Trent system you are probably going to have to get a permit before you can do anything permanent like pounding posts into the bottom. Good luck with that one, they can be hard to deal with at the best of times. I used plates (feet if you will on the bottom of my posts).

 

Second concern would be ice; I lived on Sturgeon Lake for 16 years and saw ice bend 8" I-beams like they were wet pasta. Sch. 80 anchored into the bottom will not stand up to ice hitting it then you have the problem of trying to get it out to replace it.

 

4' wide and you want to sit out there and have a brew? I'd go to 5 or even 6' wide. At 4' you won't have room to walk around your chair to go get a refill. Two people even trying to pass on a 4' dock can be a challenge especially after a few brew.

 

As for decking material, spend the extra money and go with the plastic wood type of decking, it will save you money in the long run.

 

Take those brackets back. They are designed to pinch the post against the wood, there is a better type available from dock supply stores that actually pinches the post against the bracket, it's a bit more money but a far superior system.

 

If you want to PM me your address I'd be happy to come look at what you have to work with and try to give you some ideas, I've built a lot of docks in the past 16 years, made a few mistakes, learned a few lessons

 

 

I used these brackets for mine. http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/stationary-dock-side-leg-holder-0792631p.html#srp

Along with these for support. http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/stationary-dock-corner-leg-holder-1-8-in-0792621p.html#srp , http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/leg-brace-set-0792622p.html#srp

 

And they will sit in the middle of these that will then be filled with rocks.

 

 

[tb4me]

Those tote holders are a great idea..unfortunately it wont work in my river application. The river bed drops from nothing to 8 feet 5 feet from shore

[DRIFTER_016]

Those tote holders are a great idea..unfortunately it wont work in my river application. The river bed drops from nothing to 8 feet 5 feet from shore

 

Yeah, you would need to stack em in that case.

Is it possible to cantilever your dock out from the shore?

Have good piles on shore say 10' apart. One set right by the shore and the second set 10' further back from the shore.

Cantilever 4' over the river with no piles in the river.

If you suspend it over the river you shouldn't have issues with ice or high water unless it's stupid high.

 

[woodenboater]

If indeed you have never seen ice and the probability of it occurring are basically zilch, I would do as Big Cliff and others suggest, and use feet on the bottom of your posts. Leaves more options down the road vs posts sunk into the river bed. and while I'm usually of the forgiveness vs permission in many cases, when it comes to federal agencies, I prefer to stack the deck in my favour and not roll the dice, esp since if it's a federal waterway.

 

As well, if it ever came to pass that the park owner did the work, they could be in for a world of misery, in spite of what he suggests. ymmv

[Old Ironmaker]

I agree if it is a rental site make it for as inexpensive, I won't say cheap because nothing is cheap, as you can get away with. If it isn't your property I don't even think you can pull a permit. In fact I'm 99% sure you can't unless you are contracting for the property owner.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Old Ironmaker

[tb4me]

 

Yeah, you would need to stack em in that case.

Is it possible to cantilever your dock out from the shore?

Have good piles on shore say 10' apart. One set right by the shore and the second set 10' further back from the shore.

Cantilever 4' over the river with no piles in the river.

If you suspend it over the river you shouldn't have issues with ice or high water unless it's stupid high.

 

I like this idea alot actually..Seems like it would be much easier

[tb4me]

I agree if it is a rental site make it for as inexpensive, I won't say cheap because nothing is cheap, as you can get away with. If it isn't your property I don't even think you can pull a permit. In fact I'm 99% sure you can't unless you are contracting for the property owner.

With the land owners permission I could draw a permit. However I highly doubt he drew any permits for any of the docks there..He didnt seem to think it was an issue .. so now the question remains.. I fI do decide to go ahead and pound posts and the ministry sees that who do they go after? Me or the landowner who gave me permission?

[Old Ironmaker]

The landowner is responsible. Now here I go breaking my own rules. Zero Medical or Legal advice to be given on the Internet because a) I'm not a Doctor and I'm not a Lawyer. Free advice is worth just that, nothing. Investment advise not withstanding.

 

Why would the letter B show up as a happy face thing?

 

If the MOE or whomever or whatever Ministry Of who cares shows up just tell the truth, ain't my dock Sir, I don't own the place. You aren't lying. Better yet don't sign a thing, I wouldn't unless I owned it, why would you, the owner doesn't seem to have an issue.

 

Can you take it with you when you leave? 1 reason I bought rather than got a trailer site when we were looking for a vacation place. Too many rules and zero appreciation in $$$ Stayed at a pals trailer when we were looking. 9:30 PM and the owner was driving around on his ATV telling everyone " Fires out, music off!". Say what??? It wasn't even dark. And that was 22 years ago and they were paying $2500.00 a season, May to Oct. Our place has gone from 89 grand and today I can get $450.000. He was told 10 years ago he needed to get his then new to him trailer off the property because it was going to be 20 years old. Got nothing for his "old" trailer and paid 25 grand for his new trailer. I'm sorry but I don't get the trailer site thing. As close to Socialism as you can get in Canada in my uneducated opinion. If he had done what I did, and encouraged him to do so, he could sell it and retired. He now has around $35,000.00 (oops thousands not millions) or more in site fees plus tank dump and water 22 years later with zero to show for his investment. He pays double for water and cistern because the owner has him by the orbs. I bet he has 100 grand into his rental. Now he has a letter telling him they have sold and he has until Oct. to get off the property or consider it abandoned. No way he can move that thing with 3 additions and decks. We paid far less than that in our initial investment that has quadrupled and no one tells me when I can or can not sit by our fire pit and play our music. And I can't hear my neighbours conversations when they are making a 2pile.

 

Get out of there.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Old Ironmaker

[Old Ironmaker]

Call 911, another hi-jack. Sorry, really I am. Just another Segway into a different discussion.