Bow or Gun? NF

[FloatnFly]

been having this debate with several people, this is the new crossman airbow, powered by 3000psi of compressed air, and capable of

450 fps. would be great for disabled hunters who can't do the full draw on a normal compound bow or crossbow. \

 

But, does the MNR class it as a bow, gun, or spear gun?

 

http://www.crosman.com/airbow

 

WARNING: Video contains images of a buffalo kill! If that offends you, do not watch the video!

 

Edited January 18, 2017 by FloatnFly

[glen]

Shoots a bolt so it's a bow. But uses air so it's a dart gun. Drops a buffalo I'll take two.

[DRIFTER_016]

How many pumps does it take to get it up to 3000 psi?

[manitoubass2]

Doesnt "gun" come into play at 500fps?

 

Pretty sure my kids pellet guns are 450fps.

 

I too will take a few of this bow!

[GBW]

I don't hunt and I want one!!

[Andy]

In my view, it's firearm. That's going by the definition of a firearm in the Criminal Code.

There is a reason that they kept the power at 450 fps. It's like all pellet guns that are 450 fps or under, you don't need a licence to buy it.

I find it a little scary though. An arrow will sure do a lot more damage than a pellet at that velocity.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Andy

[Old Ironmaker]

It will do much more damage than a 22 at close range. Ever heard of taking a Buffalo down with a 22? Yes with more velocity than 450 fps you need an FAC. There are air guns out there that fire at far higher speeds. I think there was a thread here about them a few years back. It showed a video taking down a small Deer with .177 air caliber pellet.

 

To answer the question of is it a gun I found on the RCMP website anything with a barrel that can fire a "projectile" that can cause bodily harm is considered to be a Fire Arm. So it has a barrel and can fire a projectile that can cause bodily harm.

 

Of course I can't cut and paste here anymore. Time to get Google Chrome?

Edited January 18, 2017 by Old Ironmaker

[Big Cliff]

My cross bow was chronographed at 381 FPS and had no trouble putting a bolt right through a deer, in fact one shot caught a rib going in, a rib going out, destroyed the knee and still stuck a good 6" into a hard packed field.

 

Is it a bow or a gun? I'm leaning more to the gun side of things, to me a bow uses mechanical force to propel a projectile.

[G.mech]

Found this post on OOD:

 

 

 

I emailed the rcmp and this is the answer
Good day,
in answer to your question the Benjamin Pioneer Airbow is classified as a rifle.

This rifle is Prohibited in Canada under the definition of "Prohibited Device" in "Part III/Firearms and Other Weapons" of Section 84 of the Criminal Code of Canada having a bullpup stock.

Hope this help.



Mario Lussier
Firearm Technology Unit / Groupe de la technologie des armes à feu
Royal Canadian Mounted Police / Gendarmerie royale du Canada Canadian Firearms Program / Programme canadien des armes à feu 1-800-731-4000 ext/poste: 1090 (ENG), 1091 (FRE)

[FloatnFly]

interesting G.Mech. makes me wonder how they class it as a rifle though

[G.mech]

interesting G.Mech. makes me wonder how they class it as a rifle though

 

True but it's not a bow either since it has no limbs or string....

 

We need to be very careful not to let logic enter into the Firearms act or the regulations made by the RCMP under it.....

Edited January 18, 2017 by G.mech

[Dara]

In my view, it's firearm. That's going by the definition of a firearm in the Criminal Code.

There is a reason that they kept the power at 450 fps. It's like all pellet guns that are 450 fps or under, you don't need a licence to buy it.

I find it a little scary though. An arrow will sure do a lot more damage than a pellet at that velocity.

 

 

Why do you find it scary Andy?

[grimsbylander]

Well first off, how can it be a bow if it has no bow? It's an air rifle at best. The fact it shoots an arrow has nothing to do with the fact it's not a bow.

 

I've shot traditional archery for 30 years so my views on what a bow is, and what bowhunting is, are much more skewed toward actually having a bow and string somewhere in the design. Frankly, I'd be embarrassed to be walking around with that thing and call myself a bowhunter. It belongs in the gun season at best.

[G.mech]

I guess the CFO couldn't decide either so they've deemed it a Prohib because of the bullpup design.....kind of makes the argument moot,

[dave524]

I guess the CFO couldn't decide either so they've deemed it a Prohib because of the bullpup design.....kind of makes the argument moot,

The bullpup design is a load of krap from the RCMP, there are several rifles of bullpup design that are legal in Canada, the Norinco T97 comes to mind immediately. This is what happens when you allow the RCMP to make their own rules rather than pass them in parliament and then feed misinformation to the public. Hope nobody owns any over 10 capacity mags for their Ruger 10-22, probably the most popular rimfire semi auto out their cause you are now in possesion of a prohibited device cause the pony police decided to prohibit them .

Edited January 18, 2017 by dave524

[grimsbylander]

I guess the CFO couldn't decide either so they've deemed it a Prohib because of the bullpup design.....kind of makes the argument moot,

 

For now...

[grimsbylander]

The bullpup design is a load of krap from the RCMP, there are several rifles of bullpup design that are legal in Canada, the Norinco T97 comes immediately. This is what happens when you allow the RCMP to make their own rules rather than pass them in parliament and then feed misinformation to the public. Hope nobody owns any over 10 capacity mags for their Ruger 10-22, probably the most popular rimfire semi auto out their cause you are now in possesion of a prohibited device cause the pony police decided to prohibit them .

I'm sensing some subtle pent up frustration

[dave524]

I'm sensing some subtle pent up frustration

Ya think, been a firearms owner for over fifty years in this country, gone from being a 14 year kid going into the local hardware store with 40 cents I think it was to by a box of 22 shorts for his single shot, to this system that is so convoluted that you can't even get a straight answer from the people that are supposed to know, and they are making the laws up as they go along, maybe we should allow to OPP to amend the Highway Traffic Act at their discretion while we are at it.

[G.mech]

Hope nobody owns any over 10 capacity mags for their Ruger 10-22,

 

Yes, I had 3 of them which are now Phrohibs. More sadly, I bought the Ruger to replace my 715T after they arbitrarily outlawed the previously legal magazines for them too....it really is silly. The RCMP has full authority to make amendments to the regulations under the Firearms Act without answering to anyone.

Edited January 18, 2017 by G.mech

[TenInchJake]

Ya think, been a firearms owner for over fifty years in this country, gone from being a 14 year kid going into the local hardware store with 40 cents I think it was to by a box of 22 shorts for his single shot, to this system that is so convoluted that you can't even get a straight answer from the people that are supposed to know, and they are making the laws up as they go along, maybe we should allow to OPP to amend the Highway Traffic Act at their discretion while we are at it.

 

The change in RCMP interpretation on the over 10 round 10/22 mags is stupid. Changing it to a prohibited device because it can be used in an obscure pistol/rifle hybrid (10/22 Charger) when there have literally been thousands of the mags in Canada over the past 30 years with no criminal use is asinine.

The recent Horsemen decision to prohibit the CZ 858 Spartan is also stupid. Same as the non-restricted CZ 858 but it has the words MOLON LABE, a spartan head and a maple leaf inscribed on it. For that reason it's prohibited.

Or the RCMP calling the Mossberg Blaze 47 an AK47 variant and prohibiting it when it is a rimfire rifle the shares 0 common parts with an AK and is functionally identical to the non-restricted Mossberg Blaze.

Just stupid.

 

[Andy]

I find it scary because like Old Ironmaker said , it can cause more damage than a pellet gun or .22 at close range and no licensing is required. And from what I can see, at 450 fps it's considerably more powerful than the old fashioned crossbow.

And don't get me wrong, I too find our firearms regulations completely screwed up. Like you said, it's hard to get an answer from the people who should know. As an example, replica firearms that can't fire at all are prohibited under the Criminal Code. Yet air soft hand guns that look identical to a real hand gun with an fps of up to about 360 fps can be bought at Canadian Tire or online without issue.

[Dara]

They just gotta look scary to be prohibited

 

I think the law actually reads, no scary looking guns allowed

[Dara]

I find it scary because like Old Ironmaker said , it can cause more damage than a pellet gun or .22 at close range and no licensing is required. And from what I can see, at 450 fps it's considerably more powerful than the old fashioned crossbow.

And don't get me wrong, I too find our firearms regulations completely screwed up. Like you said, it's hard to get an answer from the people who should know. As an example, replica firearms that can't fire at all are prohibited under the Criminal Code. Yet air soft hand guns that look identical to a real hand gun with an fps of up to about 360 fps can be bought at Canadian Tire or online without issue.

Any crossbow or compound can cause more damage than a pellet gun or 22

[Dutch01]

Any crossbow or compound can cause more damage than a pellet gun or 22

Doesn't even have to be a compound. My 45# recurve with a broadhead can cause plenty of damage.

[Old Ironmaker]

I can't cut and paste, still after installing Chrome. UGGGG.

 

Google "what's the definition of a firearm in Canada?" It is fairly clear, has a barrel and can propel a projectile that can cause bodily harm. That is fairly clear. The RCMP can change legislation now? They are the enforcement branch I thought not the legislative branch. I'm not saying they don't have a hand in drafting the law, they don't make them just enforce them. I have been told that a few times by Johnny Law.