Ganaraska River Atlantic Salmon initiative MEETING

[chessy]

ATLANTIC SALMON DETAILS

this was sent to me today and asked to post it . there is no excuse for you not to be there whether your for or against the proposed plan . So far like i have said in the past this MNRF is trying to do better and they have given lots of notice for people to attend .

Hi Jason

 

Here are the details below for the March 10 Port Hope meeting.

 

This is a general information session on the Lake Ontario fisheries and the Ganaraska River Atlantic Salmon initiative.

 

We are planning two main agenda topics:

1) a summary of Lake Ontario fisheries management and stocking (all species) and

2) a presentation on the Ganaraska River Atlantic Salmon initiative.

 

There will be lots of time for questions and discussion.

 

Public Information Session:
Bring Back the Salmon - Ganaraska River Atlantic Salmon initiative - including an overview of the Lake Ontario Trout and Salmon Fishery.

Ontario Ministry of Natural Resource and Forestry - Lake Ontario Management Unit

 

Thursday March 10, 2016

Port Hope Town Hall

56 Queen St.

Port Hope

7 pm to 9 pm (doors open at 6:30pm).

 

I am not in charge of this meeting just a messenger if you have any questions about the project this is the person to contact

Andy Todd
Manager, Lake Ontario Management Unit
Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources and Forestry
Glenora Fisheries Station
41 Hatchery LN Picton Ontario K0K 2T0
Office: 613-476-3147
[email protected]

 

[Salmonidstalker]

Now that the bring back the salmon initiative is losing momentum on the Credit, maybe they can start a "bring back the steelhead" initiative.

 

A sad day for the Ganny.

[dave524]

It is unfortunate, but the restoration of a native, once numerous species is an easier sell to the non fishing public and will bring in donation dollars from outfits not even related to sports fishing. It's a great story to say hey look we're bringing back Lake Ontario to the days of old, without the myth of Atlantic Salmon Restoration a lot of good work on habitat restoration would not be possible .

Edited February 2, 2016 by dave524

[esoxansteel]

Not sure if they will take or not, but if there is one river where the chances are best its the Ganny, if you look at the production numbers of steelhead in the 80s esp 1989, there are 3 creeks which stand out on top the Ganny the Wilmot, and one other eastern creek, which all was due to natural reproduction. The Ganny should have been the first choice IMO for Bringing back the Salmon when you do the math on sustainability and Natural Reproduction, moving forward the Chinook run now out numbers the steelhead run on the Ganny and guess what Chinooks were last stocked there in 1969, again all do Natural Reproduction, one dam with a fish ladder, and then its miles of quality spawning water on both branches, with the west branch leading the way. For the Credit River guys and girls, who donated hours upon hours of volunteer work, tree planting rehabilitation etc, i certainly do feel your dissatisfaction, about the sudden change of venue, but it certainly put the club on the map and fore front, all in a good way, and good exposure is never a bad thing. Back in the 80s there was the Ganaraska Sportsman Association, where many of us volunteered our time and resourses for the betterment of the river, that club is now defunct, but in no way matched the membership of the CRAA

[chessy]

i hope to see you there steve and i think it may be time to bring back the GSA

[ecmilley]

I think it'll be no different then the other places it haas been tried with marginal returns but on the bright side i bet the other trout/salmon species will benefit greatly from it

[aniceguy]

The reproductive capacity of the credit and all its tributaries far outstrips any river on the north shore in orders of magnitude

This shift is due to the dysfunctional nature of aurora district OFAH realizing that unless the barriers are open in the credit and free passage is restored their program won't work

Rather then open both fish ways they move the program

I'd really like to know who has this immense power over mnr to actually stop fish passage on the credit

 

There will be a time when this Atlantic program will compete with any reminent native population as a result restrictions will be placed on non native fish passage. Mnr and OFAH will deny this but trust me based strictly on past behaviour this isn't a matter of if it happens but when in fact it happens

 

Craa and hundreds of anglers and other groups and stakeholders would have been pleased to open the fish ways and allow free passage for this and all species sadly trout unlimited driven by their current ceo Greg Clark chapter and Isaiah Walton used an outdated plan and who knows what additional tactics to ensure the credit Atlantic and by the nature of their tactics the credit proper never lives up to its potentials

 

 

Too bad lots of smoke and mirror coming at this meeting and a feel good mentality all aimed and messing up a great fishery

Edited February 2, 2016 by aniceguy

[Garnet]

That's my point the club put heart sole and dollars. What did the MNR do. Real stuff roll up your sleeves make a decision and do something.

 

I want to hear about specifics.

[spincast]

A couple of years ago the Atlantic was a heavy topic on another site, below are a few things that I discovered watching that chat and listening to both sides of a very knowledgeable group of anglers. .

There are some eye opening numbers involved in this program to date (all numbers were up to Dec 2012.)

The Province of Ontario has stocked tens of millions of Atlantic Salmon in various life stages from eyed eggs, fry, fingerling, yearling, advanced yearlings and even full aged adults. Of that number, less than two dozen have return to a major waterway such as the Credit River west of Toronto, where millions have been stocked.

Atlantic salmon disappeared from the Lake Ontario tributaries in the late 1880’s due to river degradation in the form of dams, pollution, clearing of surrounding forests and to some extent over-harvesting. Those rivers that could not support Atlantics in the 1880’s are in worse shape today. Population sprawl and urbanization expansion have fundamentally changed the environment the Atlantic Salmon requires to successfully reproduce.

From 1987 to 2004 the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources embarked on a major restocking program designed to create a self-sustaining Atlantic salmon population. Over almost a 20-year period more than 6,742,000 Atlantics were stocked. Unlike other salmonoids who return to their rivers to spawn in the fall when cooler temperatures and fall rains cool the rivers, the Atlantic spawns in mid summer. The rivers they return to are lethal at the time they spawn. They simply cannot survive in the temperature of the streams. Actually, they can’t even approach them from the lake. In 2011, despite millions of fish being stocked over the years, a grand total of 33 Atlantics were captured at the Streetsville dam.
After more than 26 years of experimenting, at an estimated cost of more than 5 million taxpayers’ dollars, the results are, statistically speaking 0 fish survived.

For what its worth, to me it makes more sense to continue with programs that have produced success. Chinook, Coho, Rainbow have all proven to survive in statistically significant numbers at far reduced costs. Somehow I just cant believe the Ganny will produce when and where all other rivers have performed so poorly; and, on the slim chance that the results are better than the other streams - the question: is why did it take so long to figure that out?

[chessy]

i am not a good person at putting things in type so here goes . there really is not need of stocking of chinooks or cohos let the rivers sort out what it can and can not produce . as far as the ganny goes the dam once they are above dam they have great places to spawn where most people have no access. with the counter in place it will be able to monitor and identify every fish that goes over. the ganny and other river east of it said they would never reproduce naturally that was when they first started stocking salmon .. well we have a crap load that not only run the ganny but stage in front of the ganny longer than most any other rivers. so that could be a good thing as the atlantics may not wander far away. in 5 years if this program is a failure i will be the first to say i was wrong. but the benefits outweigh the negatives of this project big time .

[Salmonidstalker]

Well the bad news is the mnr does not care about your opinion. And the real bad news is that the Ganny will suffer severe consequences with this program in place. But the extremely bad news is we will lose a great fishery and fishing opportunities. But at least the river will be tree lined and banks will be stabilized......for 5 Atlantic's.

[AKRISONER]

im not crazy knowledgeable but i totally understand the sentiment of a few posters that basically making up a fake story about rehabilitating the ganny for the supposed atlantics will ruin the fishery for 5 years, but at the same time create a massive movement to restore the riverbanks with trees etc providing some really good spawning ground. Once the MNR fails at restocking the atlantics, there will be a fantastic spawning ground for the salmon and steel to come back to.

 

Its a dumb way to do it, but try and ask the general populous to support the MNR restoring the ganny for salmon and other invasive species and you wont get any money to do anything at all. You will have the ganny in its current state with road fill, sand parking lots and shopping carts filling its banks.

Edited February 3, 2016 by AKRISONER

[craigdritchie]

It is unfortunate, but the restoration of a native, once numerous species is an easier sell to the non fishing public and will bring in donation dollars from outfits not even related to sports fishing. It's a great story to say hey look we're bringing back Lake Ontario to the days of old, without the myth of Atlantic Salmon Restoration a lot of good work on habitat restoration would not be possible .

 

The problem is that after 30 years of effort, millions in expense and hundreds of thousands of man-hours of labour, results have been an undisputed zero. So can we finally drop this ridiculous charade and get back to restoring the lake to the great fishery it once had and is capable of having again?

 

I doubt it.

 

 

 

 

I think it'll be no different then the other places it haas been tried with marginal returns but on the bright side i bet the other trout/salmon species will benefit greatly from it

 

I'm not convinced the benefit to other species exists. With due respect to CRAA, they can do all the habitat work they want (and kudos to them for taking that initiative) but none of it matters if MNR/OFAH won't let fish up past the dams.

 

 

The reproductive capacity of the credit and all its tributaries far outstrips any river on the north shore in orders of magnitude

This shift is due to the dysfunctional nature of aurora district OFAH realizing that unless the barriers are open in the credit and free passage is restored their program won't work

Rather then open both fish ways they move the program

I'd really like to know who has this immense power over mnr to actually stop fish passage on the credit

 

There will be a time when this Atlantic program will compete with any reminent native population as a result restrictions will be placed on non native fish passage. Mnr and OFAH will deny this but trust me based strictly on past behaviour this isn't a matter of if it happens but when in fact it happens

 

Craa and hundreds of anglers and other groups and stakeholders would have been pleased to open the fish ways and allow free passage for this and all species sadly trout unlimited driven by their current ceo Greg Clark chapter and Isaiah Walton used an outdated plan and who knows what additional tactics to ensure the credit Atlantic and by the nature of their tactics the credit proper never lives up to its potentials

 

 

Too bad lots of smoke and mirror coming at this meeting and a feel good mentality all aimed and messing up a great fishery

 

 

Louis, as usual, sees through the crap and hits it straight on the head.

 

IF MNR stocks numbers of larger Atlantics in the Ganny - fish that are large enough to survive - and IF these plants result in decent returns to the Corbett Dam fish ladder, it is a virtual certainty that ONLY Atlantics will be transferred above that dam, and that ALL steelhead, brown trout and Pacific salmon will be stopped there so that they don't compete with Atlantic salmon moving forward.

 

This is 100% guaranteed. Bet your house on it. It WILL happen.

[chessy]

QUESTION IS if we get returns on the fish they put in then that means they have competed with the rainbows and chinooks for 5 years right . Then there is no reason to close the dam off

[fishindevil]

the MNR or ministry of no mistakes will screw this up royally like they have elsewhere and beat this horse to death as well at the peril of the other species......the gong show continues////// and the flushing of much needed money that could have been used elsewhere will continue to be wasted........

[craigdritchie]

QUESTION IS if we get returns on the fish they put in then that means they have competed with the rainbows and chinooks for 5 years right . Then there is no reason to close the dam off

 

Not true. Those first fish will have come out of a hatchery truck. They didn't compete with anything.

 

If the powers that be decide that Atlantics should be given every chance to succeed through natural reproduction, then the dam will be closed to everything but Atlantics.

 

You can take this to the bank.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Craig_Ritchie

[chessy]

thanks craig .

Edited February 3, 2016 by chessy

[craigdritchie]

I honestly don't know, Chessy. Try to get a written guarantee from MNR/OFAH that steelhead, browns, and Pacific salmon will continue to enjoy full access past the dam, but I suspect that still wouldn't be worth the paper it is written on. The Ontario government breaks promises every single day without a second thought.

 

The only long-term solution is for all anglers to engage another political party that supports proper resource management in Ontario and axing the Atlantic program altogether, then get them elected.

[Salmonidstalker]

I honestly don't know, Chessy. Try to get a written guarantee from MNR/OFAH that steelhead, browns, and Pacific salmon will continue to enjoy full access past the dam, but I suspect that still wouldn't be worth the paper it is written on. The Ontario government breaks promises every single day without a second thought.

 

The only long-term solution is for all anglers to engage another political party that supports proper resource management in Ontario and axing the Atlantic program altogether, then get them elected.

This is what I suggested in another thread here. But like you said, even if they put it on paper you can probably wipe your butt with it.

 

Chessy, I'm sure this is power no one can stop but if you care about that river, protest it. Do whatever you can to not have Atlantic's put in the Ganny.

 

Daryl Choronzy warned us long ago about what Atlantic's would do for our fishery. Not many believed him or wanted to jump on that ship including myself. In the end, he was right.

[Richard S.]

The MNR is going to turn the Ganny into another Credit river, all migratories stopped at Corbetts with no natural reporduction, and all that will be left are the resi brookies and browns....and im not to sure about the resi browns either when the MNR and OFAH find out that all the atlantic smolts are being eaten by them. Truly a very sad day for the Ganaraska!

 

 

Rich.

[esoxansteel]

i hope to see you there steve and i think it may be time to bring back the GSA

 

 

Yes i was thinking the same thing in the back of my mind, we need more then you to keep the MNR honest with there numbers, and their decisions

[chessy]

 

 

Yes i was thinking the same thing in the back of my mind, we need more then you to keep the MNR honest with there numbers, and their decisions

 

with all the questions on the various boards.. and all the pro comments as well as all of the negative comments... there has not been one email or phone call to the mnrf over the ganny and atlantics

[aniceguy]

Cheesy there is no point making a call I've asked mnr to hold a public meeting here and nothing comes of it. To the other readers don't get confused that the ganny will get all this great bank stabilization work tree planting habitat restoration. Based on past results on the credit OFAH will do minimal work that achieved nothing more then a photo opportunity

This will be a train wreck, remember there was discussion to remove resident brown trout because of their Predation on Atlantics. Why don't other native desirable fish species get this free passage? OFAH mnr and the dictators behind this will utterly mess this up and will endure to change it.. OFAH has done some great work but can't they fire their staff managing this and go back to projects that have hope

[chessy]

they are holding a public meeting on march 10 at 7 pm in port hope

[Richard S.]

Honestly I wouldn't believe anything the MNR or OFAH says anyways, Louis and I know first hand that they will just go back on their word. Louis is correct when it comes to OFAH doing any rehab work, very, very minimal at best.

 

Rich

Edited February 4, 2016 by Richard S.