Freeze to death or starve to death?

[Big Cliff]

I have been working since I was 15 years old, sometimes two jobs, raised a family, went back to school and upgraded my education and never once drew welefare or used a food bank.

 

I have paid my taxes and paid my dues for all of those years and today at 68 I qualify for just over $1000.00 a month in penson. Now I hear a lot of people saying you have to plan to take care of yourself when it is time to retire. I look back and I see that I work at least 7 out of the 12 months in a year just to pay my taxes.

 

Lets take another look at this, in the last 53 years I have worked 30.92 of those years just to pay taxes. I have spent more than half of my life working just to pay my and on top of that I am expected to plan to take care of myself for the next 14 years? You can be sure I will do it because I am a survivor but I worry about my friends that have worked as hard as I did and perhaps didn't end up as luckey as I did. (and I know of a few)

 

I wasn't one of the fortunate ones (or smart enough) to take a job as a cop, teacher, firefighter or one of those other jobs where I could end up getting a cushy pension. Don't get me wrong here, I am not saying that any of the above jobs don't deserve a good pension, I have nothing but respect for those that have given their lives to those professions. What I am saying is what about those farmers that worked long hours to feed the rest of us. What about the people that worked in support industries to make sure that others prospered, what about the little guy, the book keepers that took jobs so they could feed their families and make someone else rich? They also gave up better than half their working lives to pay taxes and now, they have to live on pensions of $1000.00 a month or less? does that seem right to you?

[bigugli]

Cliff, even if you are fortunate, and play the game just like you were told, you still get screwed. Banks and governments just change the rules. Remember when the government promoted GIC's by making them tax free ?? The tories changed that in a hurry, and it cost folks a lot of money when they went to cash in on retirement. Your pensions are now only as secure as the government allows. I'm not the only person to lose a pension because of a government loophole. The Black's reneged on 50% of their Dominion Store employees pension when they sold out to A&P a few decades back. Too bad we can't cut a politician's pension in half. Government loophole made it legal.

[NAW]

Ya. I've burnt 1600 littles of oil this season.

 

Time to put in a wood stove me thinks.

 

Just need to convince wifey...

[bigugli]

Ya. I've burnt 1600 littles of oil this season.

 

Time to put in a wood stove me thinks.

 

Just need to convince wifey...

Simple argument. Do you want to stay warm next winter??

[Entropy]

I find it strange that a country like Canada can send billions of $ to help other countries in need, our politicians can give themselves raises and lavish pensions and the people that worked their whole lives in this country and paid their taxes can be literly left out in the cold!

 

There must be something we can do but what?

 

I agree, "our' government needs to focus on the core essentials of what we need, and stop helping others. Look after your family first, then abroad.

 

Entropy

[woodenboater]

curious, just how badly will insurance companies nail people who want to install wood stoves that pass WETT inspections ?

[Entropy]

There is a couple living in an old family cottage down the road, it is poorly insulated if any. They use electric space heaters (melts the snow off the roof), some how rack up a crazy hydro bill (I'm assuming they pay it). They have no working plumbing, and fill up water bottles at Chalk Lake spring, for bathing, drinking, washing, and to flush a toilet. They say they lost everything in the recession.

 

Entropy

[irishfield]

Woodenboater.. I just had a home inspection, requested by Royal Sun Alliance (to assess value) after taking my money blind for 19 years... guess I'll know shortly if they truly just wanted to make sure if I was covered for replacement or they wanted a reason to bail. 3 zero clearance fireplaces in the house... although they seem to prefer those to wood stoves. I'll know soon enough.

 

That said.. if you have to buy your wood at $300 a bush cord, you're not going to save much over alternate methods. I've already burnt 2 full bush cords in the house this year... and I'm thinking at the rate oil has been going up and what we've been using I'll be burning another 2 or 3 full cords before spring comes.

Edited February 11, 2014 by irishfield

[richyb]

It never fails ! .. last fall we decided to switch from oil to gas. They came to install the furnace and said it was past the deadline to dig the gas lines but we could run propane until the spring when they could install the gas . Of coursethe price of propane goes through the roof . Come on spring ... I want gas !!!

[Entropy]

I pay $40 a year for a 'fire burning appliance' rider? ryder? on the house insurance. I'm hoping to put a wood stove in the garage and assumed that would mean another $40 a year, and was told 'no' by my provider. It is $40 a year for as many as you have.

 

We have natural gas here, but burn a pile of wood. The furnace uses electricity too. Besides wood heat feels better, and helps keep you fit (not that I am)

 

 

Entropy

[Rustic-Fisher]

 

curious, just how badly will insurance companies nail people who want to install wood stoves that pass WETT inspections ?

We didn't get nailed to badly, think it worked out to 8$ extra a month. Stove is capable of heating the house.

However when we moved in last year and went from a house with gas heating to oil heating , our rates went up 750$ a year , and that was the best I found.

On a side note .... Last year the neighbours had a small leak in their oil tank that leeched into the soil around the house , was picked up via their sump pump and pumped out to the storm water run off and ended up in a holding pond . WHAT A NIGHTMARE ! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ . Insurance didn't pay.

Total was around 43000$$$ check your policies.

[tb4me]

Interesting my grandfather called this 20 years ago..If he were alive today he wouldn't be so happy to say I told ya so.. I remember the big fight between he and my grandmother.. The Propane sales man came along while Pops and I were at work, offering the world, They had convinced my grandmother to switch over from oil to propane..Even had some sort of grant lined up to pay for the furnace, propane tank and the install, heck even had the car paid to be switched over, too good to be true right!? Good ol Pops seen right thru them greedy buggars as he so put it..lol Said no way in (you know what) would he get sucked in to that scam, he explained to grandma that they (the government) would get everyone on this stuff then jack the ever living crap out of the price once they got them where they wanted them.He also said propane was for BBq's,.Well 20 years later here we are, they are both dead now but if they were, good nan would have once again been proven wrong..lol God I miss them sometimes
Edited cause I couldn't use Pops exact words...lol

Edited February 11, 2014 by tb4me

[tb4me]

Woodenboater.. I just had a home inspection, requested by Royal Sun Alliance (to assess value) after taking my money blind for 19 years... guess I'll know shortly if they truly just wanted to make sure if I was covered for replacement or they wanted a reason to bail. 3 zero clearance fireplaces in the house... although they seem to prefer those to wood stoves. I'll know soon enough.

 

That said.. if you have to buy your wood at $300 a bush cord, you're not going to save much over alternate methods. I've already burnt 2 full bush cords in the house this year... and I'm thinking at the rate oil has been going up and what we've been using I'll be burning another 2 or 3 full cords before spring comes.

LOL Wayne you pay more for wood, Propane and hydro a month then i do in 2 years...Enjoy that mansion your living in..Yikes

[Fish Farmer]

And our government has lots of money to waste on the stupid Olympics'. Makes me sick to see how much money it cost for to build such waste. Win or lose, in a month, nobody will give a dam. Billion's of dollars wasted for nothing. Now our government is more worried about waving a rainbow flag, than your friends down the road Cliff, they couldn't give 2 worst for them. Our government thinks on a different level than us that built this country. They don't even hear us Cliff. I was at the Legion today and what your talking about Cliff we talked about the very same thing today. Were lucky were on the way out, but what's in store for our young. Media tells every thing is good, makes me wonder what world they live in.

As I've mentioned in other threads, the end is coming and fast.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Fish Farmer

[Entropy]

Next thing you know they will ban wood stoves, or try to tax us on the emissions from them, or tax us on the ground water we pump out of our wells.
Make us buy fishing licences, and regulate when and where we can fish, tell us if we can or can't use clotheslines to dry our clothes, ban chickens from our backyards, or endorse chickens in our backyards. Tell us to compost, make it illegal not to recycle, encourage organic foods, but discourage hunting on Sundays.

 

FN Crazy. Where can I go LIVE?

[irishfield]

I don't buy wood tb4me.. I cut and split it myself by hand from the 120 acres of red oak and maple I have in the back yard.. Have no propane either other than my fishing hut heater and BBQ.... but yah the oil bills suck. Don't lose track of the fact I have an 1800 sq ft x 10' ceiling work shop that has a 6kw electric heater keeping it at 55F that runs pretty steady all winter and gives me a warm place to make some revenue when I find time to get out there..... and then the pool pump and house A/C uses about the same hydro all summer so it's pretty constant month to month. A few more years.. and the place will be for sale...

 

Oh.. and Entropy.. they've already banned wood stoves in many municipalities..

Edited February 11, 2014 by irishfield

[woodenboater]

Thing with a wood stove is if you have a decent sized wood lot, there's your fuel there. Gas, bar oil and new chains and some sweat equity and it's basically free

 

Would love to install an efficient wood stove for our home in the big smoke but only if the insurance company isn't going to grab me by the short and curlys lol.

[tb4me]

As I've mentioned in other threads, the end is coming and fast.

Id love to know what you mean by that..I almost welcome the end, not of life, but the Government ruling the kingdom..

[tb4me]

I don't buy wood tb4me.. I cut and split it myself by hand from the 120 acres of red oak and maple I have in the back yard.. Have no propane either other than my fishing hut heater and BBQ.... but yah the oil bills suck. Don't lose track of the fact I have an 1800 sq ft x 10' ceiling work shop that has a 6kw electric heater keeping it at 55F that runs pretty steady all winter and gives me a warm place to make some revenue when I find time to get out there..... and then the pool pump and house A/C uses about the same hydro all summer so it's pretty constant month to month. A few more years.. and the place will be for sale...

 

Oh.. and Entropy.. they've already banned wood stoves in many municipalities..

wow! Sorry did I say propane,Meant oil..But ya sounds like nightmare to keep up also Sounds like a rich mans palace to me..Living the dream eh , gotta pay to play i suppose

[irishfield]

About $30 a bush cord for fuel, oil and bar oil WB and many hours of work. If you have to buy the trees... forget it and let a "processor" do the work. I've been burning the tree tops from saw log and veneer cutting, that I've allowed to be harvested off the property and dead falls for the past 15 years. About time I got the sawmill guy back again for another trip through the bush for revenue and more good tops to cut and split.

[Fish Farmer]

Do these companies, utilities, etc. ever think about the old that live on fixed pensions. They can't afford things now. Our government talks about a new budget every few months that it's only going to cost us a few bucks more. Did these people ever go to school and do math. Where are those elderly going to get the money they don't have.

[irishfield]

They don't care Dave.. as long as there is steak on the menu at the next management "convention".

[Fish Farmer]

As your signature says Wayne, my wife tells me that all the time

Do they have boiled dinner at the convention

[Old Ironmaker]

Entropy asks "FN Crazy. Where can I go LIVE?", anywhere you wish my friend. To the millions living in refugee camps around this wonderful world of ours an individual living at or below the poverty line here in Canada live like King's to them. I've had the opportunity to travel pretty well to every continent on earth save Antarctica and there isn't anywhere else I would choose to be than here in Canada. Regardless of our flawed systems and fat steak eating politicos. Travel a bit, not to some resort in the Caribbean, to downtown Kingston Jamaica for example or a ghetto in Rio, Budapest, St. Petersburg Russia or Kouzestan Iran, then come home and kiss the frozen ground here in Canada. Not many realize how blessed we are.

 

We all bash the governing party and it's leaders, who exactly voted these doe heads in? Not many will stand up and say I did!

 

Vote them out to vote in a different bunch of doe heads. But regardless and granted there isn't much to choose from we all must vote. We get into a discussion like this sitting in the boat or icehut and guys complain. Asked if they vote and they say no way, I say you don't get to argue.

[limeyangler]

"Can hardly blame companies for maximising their profits, it's what their shareholders pay them for. Can blame the government for not looking after the voters' interests though, because that what we pay them for…………………….. I venture to suggest that our interests are not being looked after"

 

Saw the above statement in a reply comment to a BBC News article about the Energy Minister (conservative) in the UK suggesting the breakup of British Gas ( a privatized public utility)., made me think of this thread, so i posted it.

Edited February 11, 2014 by limeyangler