Oggie Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 I'd call 911 but then I want to "negotiate" the level of the response. Instead of 15 fire fighters I think 4 can handle it and don't send 4 trucks send 2 that's within my budget! I'm not hurt badly so I decline the EMS and there's nothing criminal so no need for OPP. Will that reduce my bill? This guy doesn't even get a day in court! Just a bill he has to pay. Why not let the OPP determine if he is responsible. If he is responsible then charge him and he can plead his case in front of a JP. Why does the municipality get to be the judge and jury? Doesn't seem like due process to me. Dan O.
adempsey Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) The whole idea that they are allowed to pick and choose "when" they should rescue someone is abhorrent. Totally unacceptable. People are stupid and do stupid things all the time. Those mistakes put rescue workers in peril every single day. This isn't a new thing nor will it ever change. Centering out one risky activity from the other is just unethical. I love this quote from that article: “No ice is safe ice,” he said. “The minute you step on the lake, that’s your choice … If people want to go out there, they’re on their own.” Just unbelievable. Edited January 30, 2013 by FishLogic
Hoppy Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 No, they are saying if you unecessarily put the lives of others on the line, then you should have to pay for it. I agree 100% How many deaths have there been this year alone because guys are being irresponsible? what the hell are you talking about? I have been ice fishing 40 years and never heard of one fireman or cop death responding to a ice rescue. Hoppy
misfish Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 Okay. So if I walked into a gang neighbourhood and started calling people on, I would get and deserve a fine? No Rich,you be dead.
Terry Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 I can't say anything to a few of you that will not get me in mod trouble.... an ice rescue is no different then a bad weather car accident .... I hope you do something stupid and they make you pay through the nose so I can laugh at you and call you stupid and get to say you got what you deserved
jedimaster Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 Honestly, I am a little bit torn on this issue. People should be held accountable for there own mistakes. However I don't think it should be in the form of a fine. I would think some sort of community service would be sufficient. Perhaps like a Fine or X hours of community service. Perhaps a list of "Extreme Danger activities", I don't really know. However people need to be made aware of the costs as well. You can't just go and render services without letting the person know what it will cost. EG...Help I am stuck on an Ice Flow.. We will come and get you and because there was public warnings made about the ice in that area being very unsafe you wil be billed X dollars or X number of community service hours... I really don't know, but to be honest I think alot of people do some things and put themselves and other at risk needlessly and they should be held liable. I just really don't know how to apply that. Its just a feeling I personally have.
jedimaster Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 And further, perhaps the total amount of rescue dollars for stupidity is insignificant in the end. Does anyone have any budgetary stats on the issue? If we are talking about 1 percent of the budget goes to rescuing exteeme danger activities etc... than perhaps its just not worth it to go after someone for rescues.
ccmtcanada Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) Going back to the original question.... "Would you call 911?" No matter what the circumstances.... My stupidity or not... If I thought my life was in danger I would definitely call 911. What's a life worth these days anyways? I'm not saying I agree with charging...actually in most cases I'd say it's not warranted. If that's the law in an area (or by-law) then you have to abide by it....or do something to change it. Edited January 30, 2013 by ccmt
Guest Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 I can't help but look at it this way also , Who was the smart one who decided to send 4 firetrucks and 15 firefighters to pull one man up onto the bank to saftey ?????? Totally agree. I work in the health care field and last week I had to send someone out by ambulance cause they became lethargic. I was expecting a couple of paramedics. They came and then 6 firefighters. I couldnt believe it. They needed all these guys for a 120lbs person. I know the firefighters are first responders, but come on. It probably cost a fortune to drive there vehicle from there station to the place I needed them. Its best to have them on standbye just in case a more serious accident happens.
moxie Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 No, they are saying if you unecessarily put the lives of others on the line, then you should have to pay for it. I agree 100% How many deaths have there been this year alone because guys are being irresponsible? Totally agree. Case by case basis as accidents do happen.
ccmtcanada Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 This is a very slippery slope indeed... Take this scenario. I'm walking along the edge of a lake. I see someone fall through the ice. I call 9-1-1. Thankfully the person survives and gets a bill. That person says "I didn't call, I'm not paying". Do they charge me for making the call?
BillM Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) Cliff, should have just kept walking and not got involved, lol. Sadly, this is what's going to happen. Someone is not going to call 911 because they are worried about a bill and won't make it.. Then the crap will hit the fan. Edited January 30, 2013 by BillM
jedimaster Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 If you are standing on the slippery slope and fall in while making the call I tihnk you get the bill yes.
Oggie Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 This is a very slippery slope indeed... Take this scenario. I'm walking along the edge of a lake. I see someone fall through the ice. I call 9-1-1. Thankfully the person survives and gets a bill. That person says "I didn't call, I'm not paying". Do they charge me for making the call? Never thought of that but that is a good point! And if you compromise your safety in an attempt to help the victim at which point you need rescue are you paying as well?? Dan O.
BillM Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 Never thought of that but that is a good point! And if you compromise your safety in an attempt to help the victim at which point you need rescue are you paying as well?? Dan O. I'm pretty sure the two guys that attempted to save the father/son out on Simcoe a few weeks back weren't charged for the rescue.
torco Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 Honestly, I am a little bit torn on this issue. People should be held accountable for there own mistakes. However I don't think it should be in the form of a fine. I would think some sort of community service would be sufficient. Perhaps like a Fine or X hours of community service. Perhaps a list of "Extreme Danger activities", I don't really know. However people need to be made aware of the costs as well. You can't just go and render services without letting the person know what it will cost. EG...Help I am stuck on an Ice Flow.. We will come and get you and because there was public warnings made about the ice in that area being very unsafe you wil be billed X dollars or X number of community service hours... I really don't know, but to be honest I think alot of people do some things and put themselves and other at risk needlessly and they should be held liable. I just really don't know how to apply that. Its just a feeling I personally have. I agree you want people to be accountable and to know how much it costs but people make mistakes and do stupid things so how to decide when/who to pay? Its hard to wrap my head around it. I like the idea of community service or a fine vs. bill for actual cost.
Terry Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 I'm pretty sure the two guys that attempted to save the father/son out on Simcoe a few weeks back weren't charged for the rescue. you are correct
Terry Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 I wonder if it is true some guys are stranded on simcoe out from oro....
SirCranksalot Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) There are alot of problems with the bill this guy got. And Rich is right. Who is the authority that called the ice unsafe. All ice is unsafe. Roads are unsafe, schools are unsafe. Safety is a matter of judgement. Judgements based on past history, experience, research and how prepared you are to deal with an emergency. If this guy is forced to pay the bill, what recreational activity will be next? You are right about Rich being right!! The Scugog 'authorities' were quoted in the paper as saying no ice is safe!! So we are always advised to stay off it!! Cars are unsafe, planes are unsafe, even eating is unsafe---you can choke to death on your food. Best not to get out of bed!!!(Ooops--scratch that. More people die in bed than anywhere else) Edited January 30, 2013 by Knuguy
kemper Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) He was on unsafe ice, and the public had been warned that area lakes and rivers were NOT safe. Seems like a no brainer to me, if you need a rescue skiing OOB in BC you pay the bill too. Scugog ice is sloppy at the best of times around shore because of the heavy weeds. **I believe this occurred on Jan. 13 correct? The temperature reached 13 degrees C on both the 12th and 13th, it can't be a "surprise" that the ice was bad... Edited January 30, 2013 by kemper
NAW Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 This has been brought up before. But if there is money to be made, then people will do anything. Freelance Rescue workers driving around like tow truck drivers. Fighting each other to get the opportunity to go rescue someone so they can make some cash.
jedimaster Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 Its a very difficult idea to get your head around having to pay for emergency services, but I truly truly believe that there are instances where people should be held accountable. Sure car accident, held up at gun point, medical condition etc... but some thing you are willingly putting yourself at a much higher risk than normal and as such I think you should pay either by a fine or community service. Perhaps with a sing on your back saying "I am picking up garbage because I needed rescue while ice fishing in 13 degree weather" I just really don't know where the lines should be drawn, or even if there should be, its just the feeling I get when things like this happen. You can't necessarily teach someone common sense, but perhaps you and train it like a dog. I dunno, maybe I am just being stupid.
dhickey Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 Lets try it thiis way. If you make a judgment call that puts not only you but ohters at risk is that not neglagence? And worthy of a pennalty? Eg. Impaired driving.? Or what about the kid that killed 2 people on HWY 50 last year .(stunt driving)?Charged with manslaughter. These are extreem examples but still show pour judgment worthy of pennalties. Now extreem sports. A skier decides to go into an avalanch zone dispite all warnings. should that person be charged with excersizing pour judgement if that person need to be rescude? YES. Gilford a couple weeks ago. 3 air boats and it looked like about 30 cival servants responded to some people out on the ice. The ice had just formed and only 3-4 inches before the warm spell started. On the second day of the warm spell they went down. Not only that they had a child with them. Now do theese 2 examples help put in perspective the importance of common sence? Chief of police for OPP said that there is nothing they can be charged with except not using common sence(dont quoat me on that) and there is no charge for that. What??? So if the townships want to make bye-laws in order to recoupe some of the cost then that is a start. Ive said it before and I will say it again. You should have a seperate licience for ice fishing! Don.
Rich Nelson Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 Rumour has it that there are 5 guys stuck on Simcoe at the moment. If they do get rescued, I hope they get a fine as well... 100% their own fault. Some people will never learn
Terry Posted January 30, 2013 Report Posted January 30, 2013 Rumour has it that there are 5 guys stuck on Simcoe at the moment. If they do get rescued, I hope they get a fine as well... 100% their own fault. Some people will never learn I already posted that in this thead
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