Billionaire US Citizen blocking access to public lakes

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/04/04/bc-fishing-ranch-dispute.html

 

A dispute is escalating between the American billionaire owners of a massive B.C. cattle ranch and a local fishing group.

 

The fishermen say the ranch is blocking their access to two public lakes located on the Douglas Ranch near Merritt, B.C.

 

The 200,000-hectare property — reputed to be the largest working cattle ranch in Canada — is owned by billionaire Stan Kroenke, who's also owner of the NHL's Colorado Avalanche. His wife, Ann Walton Kroenke, is the daughter of Wal-Mart department store founder Bud Walton.

 

Members of the Nicola Valley Fish and Game Club claim ranch managers are illegally blocking access to Minnie and Stoney lakes, by dumping tree logs on a roadway that is publicly owned.

 

"This is definitely an attempt to keep us the heck out of here and off a public road," angler Rick McGowan told CBC News. "They're trying to lock us out of half a million acres of Crown land and all the lakes and streams in there."

 

The fishermen say the last time they went ice fishing, the ranch manager confronted them, calling them trespassers.

 

But while they insist the road is public and their only access to a public lake, the provincial government disagrees and has told them the ranch can lock the gate, blocking access.

 

Ranch manager Joe Gardner says the lakes are surrounded by private property and only the middle of the lake is public because the once tiny body of water has been enlarged, spilling onto private land.

 

McGowan argues that Kroenke may have flooded his own land, but that doesn't change the status of a public lake.

 

But Gardner says the ranch stocks the lake with rainbow trout and anyone who fishes them is stealing, the same as if someone stole a cow.

 

"It doesn't make any difference how much money Mr. Kroenke has. What matters is what our legal rights are. We have private property rights," said Gardner.

 

The Nicola Valley Fish and Game Club is now raising money in hopes of suing the ranch owners for access to the road to the lakes and the club intends to ask the BC Wildlife Federation for help.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Dr. Salvelinus

[BillM]

Interesting tidbit from another article.

 

A May 1996 letter from the Transportation Ministry to the Douglas Lake Ranch (then the Douglas Lake Cattle Co.) noted, "The existing old road that passes by Minnie and Stoney lakes are public."

[Twocoda]

Now this is going to be an interesting situation to follow

[12footspringbok]

I don't like it one bit...

This type of thing is happening everywhere. This winter up north I noticed a few more old trails had been gated up... What worries me the most is how alot of these different stories parallel The UN's wildlands project...

 

 

Coming to a favourite fishing hole near you!

[bushart]

More evidence on how "Free" of a country we really live

 

Again I learn to keep my expectations low when it comes to this sort of thing and I'm rarely surprised

[Skipper D]

Heres how i see it from the other side of the fence wearing the other guys shoes , i'am only writing this so ill know that every one here did take a look at the both sides of this story , i wont be sticking around to defend it either . I once worked for a guy like this and because of his wealth and for what all he owned i was never comfortable in letting any one know who i worked for , besides him not being to well liked by the less fortunates around . Some here will know who am talking about when i say Cold Spring Farms with Harvey Beatty as its owner . I did grow up on a small famiily farm and real enjoyed the oppertunity Cold Springs gave but i was still shy to say so till one day they did an interveiw with Harvey on national tv . Because of who he now was , they atacted him pretty good , and their main consern was how big he had become and how he might be hurting others . What they did'nt talk about was the four hundred or more people he employed and how he was considered to be a god send to his community . When Harvey was asked the question about weather or not he thought he was hurtting the smallers guys around who were trying to make a living doing the same things farming , his answer ........... Harvey said he did'nt think he was hurting any one because he had started off as just a small family farm him self . So for me when i put the shoe on the other foot so to speak and if i was either lucky or worked my butt off , in most case's its worked your butt off and some of us do that a bit better then others i'd have to say . Amagin if this was you and you managed to buy land up with your hard earn money like we all do because thats how we get to keep it ............ then have a group come one day and tell you they have rights to part of it ? When i read the above post i could'nt help but think how i might have aproched this land owner with a commity of buisness men with a buisness proposition that might have been a win win for every one on sharing this body of water ....... but first , dose any one know if the fishing is any good there ? Have fun with it gentlmen and thank you for letting me add my twist to it .

[Dave Bailey]

What they did'nt talk about was the four hundred or more people he employed and how he was considered to be a god send to his community .

 

Good for him, but that doesn't give him the right to restrict the liberties of others.

 

Amagin if this was you and you managed to buy land up with your hard earn money like we all do because thats how we get to keep it ............ then have a group come one day and tell you they have rights to part of it ?

 

The point is that a person should not have the right, at least in my opinion, to buy up land surrounding what was formerly public lakes and then restrict access. Let them buy up a lot of it, but the access should be maintained.

 

Until it's resolved I would take the interim stand that he can't own the water, and would be encouraging fly-in operators to access it constantly with floatplanes. Wait until he gets tired of a few Cessna 180s and 185s flying in and out, props screaming away in fine pitch. And a bunch of ultra-lights buzzing their lawnmower motors over his house, (the local ultra-light schools might like to use it as an area for float training). After a while he might prefer the peace and quiet of a vehicle on a road.

[BillM]

If you want to buy up land around a public lake, you still need to provide access to the public. Seems simple enough.

[Billy Bob]

Sounds like these anglers have a problem with their government.

[Musky or Specks]

Hate to be a pessimist but you know he will win this. We live in a country/civilization were $$$$ always wins even when it loses it wins because he can afford the legal team to keep this tied up in court for a long time. The fisherman can't. The legal system and ALL its participants including policy makers have made our country a mess.

[cram]

Aside from the access issue, how does someone expand a public lake without gov't consent?

[Billy Bob]

Aside from the access issue, how does someone expand a public lake without gov't consent?

 

Easy.....BEAVERS.... and I'm talking the four legged rascals here...

[12footspringbok]

Government

 

Billionaire

 

 

Is there a difference?

[cityfisher]

If you want to buy up land around a public lake, you still need to provide access to the public. Seems simple enough.

 

Not the case. This has been discussed before.

 

All the land around the lake is private.. anyone trying to access it is treepassing.. Thats a fact.. Call your local CO .. he will say the same thing

[bushart]

I'm of the understanding that if there has been an established access over time---it cannot be cutoff

 

Kind of like a right of way

[Christopheraaron]

Looks like Canada is going to have to buy us all helicopters to get to the centre of that lake!

[Harrison]

Not the case. This has been discussed before.

 

All the land around the lake is private.. anyone trying to access it is treepassing.. Thats a fact.. Call your local CO .. he will say the same thing

 

Not sure, but does there not have to be an allowance on a body of water? Reason I mention this is an old friend worked for a conservation authority and we hunted a private lake once but gained access through an allowance. If I remember right the allowance was only 25ft wide or so and you would never of found it without a map.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Harrison

[Grimace]

All this talk of a right of way does not matter in this instance. There are public roads going through the ranch. If you buy up a pile of property on either side of the road it doesn't give you the right to block the road with tree stumps. It is a public road and he is not within his right to block it. The lakes are public and he is not within his right to block them. The only reason he is getting away with this behaviour is probably because he has plenty of money and power.

[capt bruce]

What they did'nt talk about was the four hundred or more people he employed and how he was considered to be a god send to his community

 

Maybe what they didnt talk about was the "400 people he owned" yes OWNED in if they didnt kiss his but , NO GRUEL FOR YOU ,the Politicians are in my pocket and my lawyers can eat your lawyers any day... If you worked your but off did all he did .. WHY ARE YOU HERE AND NOT LIVEING NEXT MANSION OVER from a great guy ????? My twist on things .. Thought this was a FREE country .. Crown land is for ALL not just the guys who can buy up all the land around it and than not let anyone else in ???? Any rich guys out there that want to adopt a poor but nice guy, IM OLD BUT I STILL CAN BE BOUGHT , cheap really just give me what once were my rights , PLease BOSS YOU CAN BEAT ME JUST DONT SELL ME ... YESUM MASTER I will step and fetch

Edited April 5, 2012 by capt bruce

[Grimace]

The fact that he is an American is a non issue. I do not understand the point with them making a big deal out of it. I don't care if the guy is from Canada, USA, or Nepal, if he is blocking access then he should be dealt with.

[mike rousseau]

if i had the money to buy up all the land surrounding a lake...then was given permission to stock this lake... and did so with my money... id be doing everything in my power to keep people off the lake...

 

 

this guy is living what a lot of us dream about... having your own lake to do whatever you want with...

 

and hes the bad guy for not making it accessible to the public?...even after the provincial government said the ranch has the right to put a gate and block access...

 

come on...

 

let him have his piece of paradise...

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

I don't like it one bit...

This type of thing is happening everywhere. This winter up north I noticed a few more old trails had been gated up... What worries me the most is how alot of these different stories parallel The UN's wildlands project...

 

 

Coming to a favourite fishing hole near you!

 

 

They bulldozed a few more up here closed and continue to pull bridges and culverts... and now they have started to bulldoze old crown land camping on public roads as well to stop people from CAMPING! most of the signs have been spraypainted or shot with 12 gauges by now, but it just seems extreme to be destroying established campsites on established roads!

 

a big group of friends snowmobiled to fish on a "remote access" lake of which the government is trying to say we can't use to protect a lodge owner. the government can impose all the stupid rules it wants. they don't have anyone to enforce them anyways.

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

let him have his piece of paradise...

 

NO!

[capt bruce]

[quote name='Musky Mike' date='05 April 2012 -

 

let him have his piece of paradise...

 

At the loss on ALL OTHER CANADIAN TAX PAYERS .. Comeing Boss , you dont need to get out the whip Im a comeing ...

[Billy Bob]

Billionaire

 

 

Is there a difference?

 

Yes, I think so.....one earns their keep and the other one TAKES your keep....