Your thoughts on water clearity from zebra muscles

[mike rousseau]

I've seen a lot of people complain about how clear the water is because of the zebra muscles...and how they have destroyed fisheries because they disturbed the food chain...or the fish are "spooky" because they can see you now...and so on...

 

my question to you is....

 

on the water bodies you fish that have been cleared up by zebra muscles... is the fishing better...worse.... or the same as it was before...?

 

on the st.lawrence river...in my opinion the bass...musky...and walleye fishing is as good as its ever been...and thats going back 3 generations fishing the same spots...

 

but i do miss the giant weedbeds that came right to the surface...they were so thick you couldnt drive a boat through them... you had to know where the side channels were... now they are kinda thinned out and started growing a bit deeper in the water...

Edited March 27, 2012 by Musky Mike

[bucktail]

Its definatly moved fish deeper I think. But I also think it has been a boom for certain sight feeders like bass.

I am wondering if we are going to be seeing a big crash of bass in Erie or is there enough good hatches to carrie the population.

 

 

[BillM]

Why would you see a crash in Erie? It's been gin clear for the past 15+ years.

[jimmer]

They definitely change the lake. I don't know if it make fishing worse, but you sure have to adapt to the changes.

The weed growth on my lake has definitely changed due to zebra mussels. Some are gone others are proliferating, like the wild rice and some bottom weed.

[lew]

I've always enjoyed fishing for muskies after dark and a favorite location is pencil reeds in shallow water with a sandy bottom and even better if there's deep water close by.

 

We go in after dark and work our way thru the reeds casting slow rolled spinnerbaits and can often grab 3 or 4 nice muskies in a night.

 

After the zebras moved in and the water began to clear, weeds started to grow in places we never had them before and began encroaching on the pencil reeds. The weeds have now become so thick in many of the areas we used to go that we can no longer even get our boats into the spots anymore, infact on some of the reed beds we can't get within 100' now.

 

Some of these spots I've been fishing for 40 years and they were always weed free, but the last 10 years or so has seen a huge change in weed growth.

 

The only thing I put it down to is the clear water, caused by zebra muscles, is allowing more sunlight to penetrate the water and is helping to promote the heavy growth.

 

I may be totally off in my reasoning though.

 

I kinda miss those nights...

 

Edited March 27, 2012 by lew

[BillM]

Lew, I need some help beating my 36in PB, lol!

[Billy Bob]

Fishing is DIFFERENT on Lake Erie and many of our inland lakes because of the zebra mussels.....fish are much spookier and at times harder to catch...but the doom days that many "experts" predicted never materialized.....Perch and walleye numbers are way up on Erie and the bass population is as good as it has ever been, PLUS they are bigger then ever because of all the gobies in the lake.

 

Meanwhile Oneida Lake has suffered a lot because of the zebra mussels in that lake...population of walleye is about half of what it was in the 80's because of the clear water....that lake "was" a tea stain lake that was NYS walleye factory at one time.....fishing is MUCH tougher now 30 years later.

[lew]

Lew, I need some help beating my 36in PB, lol!

 

Just pick a date and we'll do it Bill.

[mike rousseau]

I've always enjoyed fishing for muskies after dark and a favorite location is pencil reeds in shallow water with a sandy bottom and even better if there's deep water close by.

 

We go in after dark and work our way thru the reeds casting slow rolled spinnerbaits and can often grab 3 or 4 nice muskies in a night.

 

After the zebras moved in and the water began to clear, weeds started to grow in places we never had them before and began encroaching on the pencil reeds. The weeds have now become so thick in many of the areas we used to go that we can no longer even get our boats into the spots anymore, infact on some of the reed beds we can't get within 100' now.

 

Some of these spots I've been fishing for 40 years and they were always weed free, but the last 10 years or so has seen a huge change in weed growth.

 

The only thing I put it down to is the clear water, caused by zebra muscles, is allowing more sunlight to penetrate the water and is helping to promote the heavy growth.

 

I may be totally off in my reasoning though.

 

I kinda miss those nights...

 

 

 

i miss some aspects of the old ways... but do you think those conditions made you get less fish per year? or just force you to catch them in different ways/areas?

[Joeytier]

Filter feeders like zebra mussels have greatly reduced biological productivity in the great lakes, which has had a massive effect on trout and salmon, which some others touched on in the Ganny thread much better than I could. However, walleye and bass populations seem to be flourishing, which be attributed to many other factors, like warmer average water temps...

[Headhunter]

I can only relate my experience fishing Quinte in the fall... since the arrival of the Zebra's, the fishing has become much more difficult as the number caught have dropped considerably.

It was not unusual to catch a couple of dozen fish per outing... fast forward to today and that number would have you on TV!

HH

[mike rousseau]

I can only relate my experience fishing Quinte in the fall... since the arrival of the Zebra's, the fishing has become much more difficult as the number caught have dropped considerably.

It was not unusual to catch a couple of dozen fish per outing... fast forward to today and that number would have you on TV!

HH

 

 

do you think there are less fish...?

 

or just harder to catch em?

 

i noticed they seem to stay below 50 feet most days up there now... ive heard they used to hold a lot higher in the water column... like most fish were above the 50 foot mark...

[chris.brock]

I've seen a lot of people complain about how clear the water is because of the zebra muscles...and how they have destroyed fisheries because they disturbed the food chain...or the fish are "spooky" because they can see you now...and so on...

 

my question to you is....

 

on the water bodies you fish that have been cleared up by zebra muscles... is the fishing better...worse.... or the same as it was before...?

 

on the st.lawrence river...in my opinion the bass...musky...and walleye fishing is as good as its ever been...and thats going back 3 generations fishing the same spots...

 

but i do miss the giant weedbeds that came right to the surface...they were so thick you couldnt drive a boat through them... you had to know where the side channels were... now they are kinda thinned out and started growing a bit deeper in the water...

Often when a fish community undergoes a major change (like the intro of zebra mussles)some species will do well in the short term but their populations may not keep up at those levels. I think you need 10 to 15 years to see how the fishery is affected after the change. Enjoy the good fishing, that's cool you're doing well.

 

I still think all invasive species are bad for the long term. Once they are established, they are probably there for ever and we couldn't remove them even if we wanted to.

[mike rousseau]

Often when a fish community undergoes a major change (like the intro of zebra mussles)some species will do well in the short term but their populations may not keep up at those levels. I think you need 10 to 15 years to see how the fishery is affected after the change. Enjoy the good fishing, that's cool you're doing well.

 

I still think all invasive species are bad for the long term. Once they are established, they are probably there for ever and we couldn't remove them even if we wanted to.

 

 

it seems like the zebra muscles have started to balances themselves out a bit here... what i mean by that is 15 years ago it was hard to find a rock that didnt have zebra muscles all over it.... but since the water has cleared up so much... i dont think they have as much food and muscle populations are dropping... at least here anyways....

 

but it seems just as the muscles started to balance out and species adapt... then heres the goby... boy was that a game changer... smallmouth fishing changed drastically in about 3-5 years.... our old patterns and spots that would produce 20-30 smallies a day....now we might get 4-5 doing the same milk run... but those who have adapted for the smallies(im not one of them....) have done amazing and a record breaking tournament bags wave been weighed in in my area...

 

hopefully we dont have to deal with any more unwanted guests in the near future...

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

it's very difficult to quantify the impact of the zebras on fish because there are all kinds of factors contributing to the changes in the ecosystem. i've heard a lot of anecdotal comments that the mussels have decimated the perch fishery in some spots around here but i'm not convinced that wasn't anglers themselves. anglers are always quick to blame fisheries changes on anybody but themselves whether it be natives, commercial fishing, cormorants, zebra mussels, sea lamprey, habitat degradation, water levels dropping etc. the reality is that our changing fisheries are a result of a myriad of factors that our government doesn't put enough money into studying.

 

and between the cutbacks planned by mcguinty and harpers all out war on the scientific community i think things are going to get worse before they get better.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Dr. Salvelinus

[ehg]

The zebra mussels have definitely changed the way of fishing on north Pigeon Lake where i frequent over last 20 yrs.

Sight feeders like musky and smallmouth have flourished there.

Walleyes that have more sensitive eyes are much deeper or are buried in weed growth.

Walleye catch frequency has dropped but larger ones are caught occasionally.

[mike rousseau]

it's very difficult to quantify the impact of the zebras on fish because there are all kinds of factors contributing to the changes in the ecosystem. i've heard a lot of anecdotal comments that the mussels have decimated the perch fishery in some spots around here but i'm not convinced that wasn't anglers themselves. anglers are always quick to blame fisheries changes on anybody but themselves whether it be natives, commercial fishing, cormorants, zebra mussels, sea lamprey, habitat degradation, water levels dropping etc. the reality is that our changing fisheries are a result of a myriad of factors that our government doesn't put enough money into studying.

 

and between the cutbacks planned by mcguinty and harpers all out war on the scientific community i think things are going to get worse before they get better.

 

yeah... a lot of people around here blamed zebra muscle for the perch fishery taking a nose dive... but then they closed the season during the spawn...and set a limit... and they made a bit of a comeback...not like it was...but better then where it was heading...

 

bananas to think it was ok to for a pack of boats to keep as many perch as they wanted whenever they wanted... everyone just thought there were so many fish it didnt matter how many they kept... that was just the mindset...

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

that was just the mindset...

 

that's the mindset of many catch and kill anglers. they forget that when they point the finger at natives, cormorants, zebras, etc they have 3 fingers pointing back at themselves.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Dr. Salvelinus

[Headhunter]

do you think there are less fish...?

 

or just harder to catch em?

 

i noticed they seem to stay below 50 feet most days up there now... ive heard they used to hold a lot higher in the water column... like most fish were above the 50 foot mark...

In all honesty, I can't tell you whether there are more or less fish... but you are correct, the fish that are there are significantly deeper then they were when I started to fish Quinte in the late 80's early 90's.

HH

[Harrison]

20 years ago you could troll a #7 shad rap in the back of Mohawk bay and smash walleye in the spring. Try that now.

 

There are a ton of variables, but speaking walleyes the fish have moved deeper and have become more weed/cover oriented. IMO. Not uncommon to catch walleye now out of really thick weed, even slop mats. I did a post here on how we fish walleye out of the thickest weed with flipping jigs a year or two ago.

 

Edit - Found the post, almost 2 yrs to the day http://ontariofishingcommunity.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=42144&st=0&p=449986&hl=harrison&fromsearch=1&&do=findComment&comment=449986

 

Lake Simcoe is another example. On a calm sunny day you can see bottom in 30 ft or more and you can now fish weedbeds in 20ft of water in the main lake. I am hoping this will help the largemouth fishery in the main lake. I've been catching more of them in my weed smallie areas.

 

AS for the B Of Q, fish must be moving in and out deeper then they were before.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Harrison

[Harrison]

but it seems just as the muscles started to balance out and species adapt... then heres the goby... boy was that a game changer... smallmouth fishing changed drastically in about 3-5 years.... our old patterns and spots that would produce 20-30 smallies a day....now we might get 4-5 doing the same milk run... but those who have adapted for the smallies(im not one of them....) have done amazing and a record breaking tournament bags wave been weighed in in my area...

 

hopefully we dont have to deal with any more unwanted guests in the near future...

 

Unwanted guests??? I'm fishing out there this fall in a T and was going to ask if you have any spare room in the driveway for the boat.... I won't bother now.

[Headhunter]

Fil brings up a good point about water clarity and it's affect on bass fishing... if you were to poll the guys fishing the Quinte Fishing Series (bass and Walleye tourny) I bet they would tell you that the bass fishing has improved substancially since the clearing of the water and that record bass are coming out of the bay.

HH

[Sinker]

Lakes are constantly changing, you just have to adapt, the same way the fish do. They're still there in most cases, they have just adapted to the continual changes of their environments.

 

Fish out side the box, you may be surprised.

 

S.

[fishindevil]

its good in some ways and really bad in others !!! it has warmed alot of waterbodies up because of deeper sunlight penetration,and has benefitied some species and some have not !!! theres alot of different things going on regarding the water clarity issue and in most cases it has not helped the walleyes at all... and the zebras have really harmed the weeds in some lakes with entire weedbeds that have dissapeared,we have talked about this before its a big problem in some lakes for sure,it has helped the bass fishery in some as well big time...

[Billy Bob]

that's the mindset of many catch and kill anglers. they forget that when they point the finger at natives, cormorants, zebras, etc they have 3 fingers pointing back at themselves.

 

On the Great Lakes, especially Lake Erie, it's not the weekend angler who is the threat to our fisheries....but rather these guys...